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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications Mission Performance stage 2 F10 N55 flash updates
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      10-20-2016, 03:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ziekxq
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Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
325/450 Whp for this car is great, but as we all know you catch the bug for more. Speaking with Alex recently he has a possible fix for the 535 to make it more like its 335 little brother. There's been a discovery on how to possibly make it hold power past 5k rpm. Other tuners claim it's the turbo fault and Alex has proven even in my car that that's not entirely true. I'm pumping 345 out of mine. We're planning on pulling back my torque from 500 to 450 and still keeping 345 and now with the new test we'll shall see if 345 can hold up to 6500rpm. I'm on a mission this weekend to find out. Stayed tuned.
Have you done any 1/4 run or plan on doing it? I want to see how this performance yield results in real life.
I can run a quarter mile with my app and I'll see what I get.
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      10-20-2016, 03:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Stück View Post
The Pure Stage 2 isn't just about the actual numbers, but the turbo's efficiency and ability to flow. 450/450 wheel hp/tq should be completely doable on 93, and it will make it throughout the RPM band, where as the stock turbo has a big lump a torque at 2000-4500 and then drops like lead after that. The stock turbo also can't move enough air to hold peak boost and is already dropping quickly by 5000rpm.

With additional fuel octane/volume the Pure Stage 2 is capable of 525whp/500wtq.
I forgot to ask, isnt that a hug risk on your transmission? I mean 500wtq or you dont care for reliability at this point?
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      10-20-2016, 03:15 PM   #47
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I can run a quarter mile with my app and I'll see what I get.
Let me know, would be interested to see the #s.
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      10-20-2016, 03:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziekxq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
I can run a quarter mile with my app and I'll see what I get.
Let me know, would be interested to see the #s.
Does anyone know what a stock 535 runs 1/4?
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      10-20-2016, 03:36 PM   #49
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Does anyone know what a stock 535 runs 1/4?
According to one of the websites 1/4 on '11 535i RWD is 14.3 sec.
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      10-20-2016, 04:14 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ziekxq
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Does anyone know what a stock 535 runs 1/4?
According to one of the websites 1/4 on '11 535i RWD is 14.3 sec.
Well if I can pull of a 12 second run that would be substantial.
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      10-20-2016, 04:34 PM   #51
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@Bmw doubles can you pm me the best way to reach Alex? I sent them a direct message on instagram last week haven't got a reply yet
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      10-20-2016, 04:57 PM   #52
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Alex hasn't been back into the office/shop yet since he returned from work abroad. He got back with me last night, just give him a bit he's working through email and other correspondence.
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      10-20-2016, 11:07 PM   #53
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Very much looking forward to your pure 2. I thinking with pure you could probably get 500/450

I'm getting my clutch and then a custom turbo mod and we can compare at that point. Is the snail bigger with pure? Or is it just the turbine and compressor wheel are different?
Pure machines stock housings to make room for considerably larger compressor and exhaust wheels. 500whp is in excess of what the HPFP can reliably supply AFAIK. Moving past ~450whp requires extra octane AND volume. You need to upgrade the LPFP to feed enough E85 blend to the HPFP, but there comes a point where the high pressure rail drops too much and you're SOL.

Fuel-It makes a port injection system that adds fuel to each cylinder between the intake manifold and head. To fully realize the Pure Stage 2 potential I would need such a fueling device. I have no desire to do so. I'll take what I can get on 93/E40 or so.

Keep in mind a larger turbo isn't just about the numbers, it's about how flat the torque curve is. The stock turbo makes an impressive peak, but it sucks at the follow through.


Quote:
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I forgot to ask, isnt that a hug risk on your transmission? I mean 500wtq or you dont care for reliability at this point?
500wtq likely would not hold over well with the 8HP45 no, but then it also matters how and when it's delivered. Most people making that are 6MT or DCT.... but I've seen plenty of 3 and 4 series with 8HP45's doing just fine at that level.
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      10-21-2016, 10:34 AM   #54
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Bmw doubles After the install of the downpipes and the stage 2 tune, is your car throwing an codes? I want to do some mods to my car but I it must pass emissions.
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      10-21-2016, 12:46 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by bin01123
Bmw doubles After the install of the downpipes and the stage 2 tune, is your car throwing an codes? I want to do some mods to my car but I it must pass emissions.
No codes Alex programmed the ecu to be in a ready state. Only detectable by putting your nose to the exhaust or measuring the fumes. OBD reads all clear.
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      10-21-2016, 01:48 PM   #56
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@Bmw doubles I've had a car fail emissions while in the ready state here in GA. I may have to pass on the DP.

Dang!!!!!!
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      10-21-2016, 02:53 PM   #57
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@Bmw doubles I've had a car fail emissions while in the ready state here in GA. I may have to pass on the DP.

Dang!!!!!!
Or learn how to swap it yourself
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      10-21-2016, 10:26 PM   #58
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It's not that I don't know how, I just don't want to have to change it out once a year for emissions.
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      10-22-2016, 12:03 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by bin01123
It's not that I don't know how, I just don't want to have to change it out once a year for emissions.
For me it would be every 2 years and even if I paid for that it wouldn't be more than 100 bucks labor.
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      10-22-2016, 10:22 AM   #60
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If I still lived in CT, I probably would do the down pipe because emissions used to be every 3 years. Now that I live in GA, emissions is every year and I'm too lazy to keep swapping it out for a daily driver.
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      10-22-2016, 10:43 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by bin01123
If I still lived in CT, I probably would do the down pipe because emissions used to be every 3 years. Now that I live in GA, emissions is every year and I'm too lazy to keep swapping it out for a daily driver.
In that case just go stage 1.5
I'm also finding out about meth injection and that you can actually spray 100% water like the M4! That will allow you to keep your DP and advance your timing. Proper calibration required of course.
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      10-22-2016, 10:49 AM   #62
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Wow!!!!!!

I need to digest that for a bit because I like the sound of injecting water like the M4. I would want the same setup and the only thing that would bug me is knowing when I need to refill the water. I believe the M4 has an indicator on the dash to tell you when you're out of water.
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      10-22-2016, 10:51 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bin01123
If I still lived in CT, I probably would do the down pipe because emissions used to be every 3 years. Now that I live in GA, emissions is every year and I'm too lazy to keep swapping it out for a daily driver.
In that case just go stage 1.5
I'm also finding out about meth injection and that you can actually spray 100% water like the M4! That will allow you to keep your DP and advance your timing. Proper calibration required of course.
Do you know what power claims Mission says with stage 1.5? I assume it's for upgraded fmic while keeping stock dps ?
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      10-22-2016, 11:50 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivanapoli806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bin01123
If I still lived in CT, I probably would do the down pipe because emissions used to be every 3 years. Now that I live in GA, emissions is every year and I'm too lazy to keep swapping it out for a daily driver.
In that case just go stage 1.5
I'm also finding out about meth injection and that you can actually spray 100% water like the M4! That will allow you to keep your DP and advance your timing. Proper calibration required of course.
Do you know what power claims Mission says with stage 1.5? I assume it's for upgraded fmic while keeping stock dps ?
I will be experimenting with a 2.5 tomorrow so I'll ask. The whole thing with more tq-hp, timing is heat. Heat causes detonation, so the goal is to cool your machine. So of course a fmic is going to assist in that, but the best thing you can do is cool directly into the ports. That's where e85 and water injection is our best friend.

On my e90 a famous mod was to remove the hood seal by the driver windshield to better ventilate the the engine bay. I've been contemplating razoring off just the rear seal on mine since it's one uniform piece. The e90 the seal was in sections.
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      10-24-2016, 11:01 AM   #65
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STAGE 2.5 UPDATE:
Spent some time with Alex this weekend and though the car is performing well on the 2nd iteration of the Stage 2 tune Alex wanted to data log and check results against actual and fine tune any hiccups. In other words what the tune was programmatically requesting vs what the car was actually physically doing and then adjust accordingly. Last visit to the Dyno which is the first post on this thread, you can see we made 345/504. The graph is all over the place because of my clutch trying to handle 500wtq, insane, we know. I was willing to risk it and so far we discovered that BMW can take a shit ton of abuse. Stage 2.5 is not going to happen on our cars, it's only going to be stage 1, 1.5, 2 or 3. Stage 4 doesn't exist, yet. Stage 2.5 can be better explained by Alex. During the process of discovering request vs actual we came across a very interesting piece of information everyone should be aware of.

Our turbos take a dump starting 3k and fall on its face at 5, but why is that? We found there are some parameters that can be adjusted on the car without breaking safety protocol on the ecu and helps our little baby turbos push a little harder. The main discovery is the difference between LCI production vehicles and non LCI. If you are running a non LCI your turbine exhaust outlet is 3.5. If you're running a late 2013 or higher you're outlet is 4"! Basically those of you behind that year running a tune will never be able to surpass the physical limitations of the hardware and those of you running 4" outlets will rave about a tune. I'm in the non LCI boat, so in order to get to 400whp I need to swap my turbo to a 2014 LCI turbo, and to go even further while we have the turbo out, might as well change out the turbine and compressor wheels.

Additionally, this proves that if your turbo is non LCI and you decide to go Pure stage 1 or 2 speculation based off of this discovery is that a Pure stage 1 on a non LCI turbo will produce about 350-370hp and will hold probably to 6kish. A Pure stage 2 on the same 3.5 turbo will probably be in the 380-400 range. Of course this is unproven on our cars so we shall see. So note if you're going to tune know the limitations and the differences between the two setups. If you want serious power make sure you have the 4" outlet. Alex has proven with his tune on a 4" outlet he can make 400whp. That same turbo with upgraded internals would probably put down 450whp.

All of this is still unfolding and I'll be upgrading and posting results as we progress.
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      10-24-2016, 11:10 AM   #66
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@Bmw doubles Thanks for sharing. Love learning all this information about our vehicles and kudos to you for leading the charge. Did MissionPerformance say what a stage 1.5 tune entails?
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