[STR8-6IX]

Hi all, I am looking over some options for my F10 in terms of suspension.

While the suspension is really nicely dialed in for highway cruising, it just feels so floaty and disconnected around corners. I have been wanting to install coilovers for a long time now, But have decided against it because of the awful roads. here.

my only real option is a bushing upgrade and new lowering springs. what do you guys think? should I do it? what other options do I have?

thanks!

[Desmond79]

See:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=51

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by DesmondF10

See:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=51

Excellent, thanks! So lowering springs seem to have solved the "float" issue with the f10? I feel like the stock damping settings strike a pretty good balanced between straight line and handling, but there is way too much suspension travel and float during corners.

what do you think of the eibach springs? I like how they try an strike a balanced between comfort and performance. I feel like it is a good pairing with the stock damping of the f10, which I need to keep to protect my chassis from toronto road surfacs..

opinions?

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

Excellent, thanks! So lowering springs seem to have solved the "float" issue with the f10? I feel like the stock damping settings strike a pretty good balanced between straight line and handling, but there is way too much suspension travel and float during corners.

what do you think of the eibach springs? I like how they try an strike a balanced between comfort and performance. I feel like it is a good pairing with the stock damping of the f10, which I need to keep to protect my chassis from toronto road surfacs..

opinions?

AC Schnitzer designs the springs - Eibach manufactures for them. Sort of like Bridgestone Golf making Nike golf Balls when Nike was in the golf equipment business. They shut the factory down and change all specs - at least in the golfing world.

From all reports, the Eibach are a bit sportier and you lower the car a bit more than ACS.

With ACS/Koni FSD versus stock -- less float, less dive, less feel of going backwards on acceleration. A good balance.

The AC Schnitzer Group would agree with you on the stock shocks -- they think it's a waste of money to change shocks unless needed. So you would end up with a smoother ride with the stock shocks over the Koni FSD. I can see it working that way - OEM is a "softer" shock.

You could go slightly lower and sporter with the Eibach Springs if you are staying with the stock shocks - but you also have some posts stating the stock shocks were blown - make sure the bumperstops are trimmed a bit - I am told the lowering increases the need for more shock travel. I'd probably stick with ACS because sometime, you will change the shocks to something sportier.

Good luck!

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by DesmondF10

AC Schnitzer designs the springs - Eibach manufactures for them. Sort of like Bridgestone Golf making Nike golf Balls when Nike was in the golf equipment business. They shut the factory down and change all specs - at least in the golfing world.

From all reports, the Eibach are a bit sportier and you lower the car a bit more than ACS.

With ACS/Koni FSD versus stock -- less float, less dive, less feel of going backwards on acceleration. A good balance.

The AC Schnitzer Group would agree with you on the stock shocks -- they think it's a waste of money to change shocks unless needed. So you would end up with a smoother ride with the stock shocks over the Koni FSD. I can see it working that way - OEM is a "softer" shock.

You could go slightly lower and sporter with the Eibach Springs if you are staying with the stock shocks - but you also have some posts stating the stock shocks were blown - make sure the bumperstops are trimmed a bit - I am told the lowering increases the need for more shock travel. I'd probably stick with ACS because sometime, you will change the shocks to something sportier.

Good luck!

thank you!

the f10's float suspension is nice when cruising, but you're right when you say it inspires absolutely no confidence around tighter corners. I'm looking to retain just a little bit of the factory float (hence why i am keeping stock dampers, they dont need to be replaced anytme soon) and just upgrading springs. so you would say this is how to strike the perfect balance between comfort and handling? would you say it corners well? my other issue with the f10 is the heavy chassis. its very stable but just feels too heavy and boring for it to handle well. do you think suspension upgrades would properly compliment the chassis and turn it into a proper machine?

also, I know you shouldnt add sway bars to stock suspension, but what do you think of adding sway bars to suspension with upgraded springs? or is it best to leave that alone unless I get full coilovers?

thanks!

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

thank you!

the f10's float suspension is nice when cruising, but you're right when you say it inspires absolutely no confidence around tighter corners. I'm looking to retain just a little bit of the factory float (hence why i am keeping stock dampers, they dont need to be replaced anytme soon) and just upgrading springs. so you would say this is how to strike the perfect balance between comfort and handling? would you say it corners well? my other issue with the f10 is the heavy chassis. its very stable but just feels too heavy and boring for it to handle well. do you think suspension upgrades would properly compliment the chassis and turn it into a proper machine?

also, I know you shouldnt add sway bars to stock suspension, but what do you think of adding sway bars to suspension with upgraded springs? or is it best to leave that alone unless I get full coilovers?

thanks!

The problem with advising others about striking a balance is everyone's idea of balance is subjective.

If you are running RFT, I think springs only brings you towards the side of better handling, less float, dive, lean, squat, etc.

The handling is more conducive to what you want, and I think the ACS promote less lowering and more comfort than other spring sets on the market. Eibach, from all reports, gives you more lowering than ACS, but not much, and a little less comfort, possibly more handling. Others can add their experience.

Sway bars - thought about it a bunch - the car has a lot of understeer and the OEM rear bar is smallish. Reading posts, the M front sway bar offers a lot of performance at the expense of comfort. The rear 650 bar takes away lean - but the package of the two adds understeer. I am going to install the rear sway bar to offer more neutral handling while I believe still retaining sufficient understeer. IOW, for me -- rear bar is good, front bar may take away too much comfort while adding understeer.

If you go too far on the suspension, you will need to rid yourself of the RFT's for a more supple, comfortable ride. Some members just get rid of the RFTs and nothing else - I'd experiment - if keeping the OEM shocks and replacing springs, ride the car for a few hunded miles afterwards and then decide.

Coilovers are another decision that depends on what you want from the car. I went conservative to keep a comfortable ride - ACS, Koni FDS, Michelin A/S 3+, and in a week or so, the rear bar. But many have commented that KW Coilovers are comfortable, and others have changed springs and went with Koni Sport Adjustables, and are happy and comfortable with them. As I said, depends on your objective, and feel/comfort is dependent upon each individual's judgment.

Hope that helps.

[lsturbointeg]

also, i've notice quite a few people now chiming in that after installing springs their shocks are now blown so keep in mind that you'll be paying more looking for performance shocks. might look into coilovers for the longrun

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by DesmondF10

The problem with advising others about striking a balance is everyone's idea of balance is subjective.

If you are running RFT, I think springs only brings you towards the side of better handling, less float, dive, lean, squat, etc.

The handling is more conducive to what you want, and I think the ACS promote less lowering and more comfort than other spring sets on the market. Eibach, from all reports, gives you more lowering than ACS, but not much, and a little less comfort, possibly more handling. Others can add their experience.

Sway bars - thought about it a bunch - the car has a lot of understeer and the OEM rear bar is smallish. Reading posts, the M front sway bar offers a lot of performance at the expense of comfort. The rear 650 bar takes away lean - but the package of the two adds understeer. I am going to install the rear sway bar to offer more neutral handling while I believe still retaining sufficient understeer. IOW, for me -- rear bar is good, front bar may take away too much comfort while adding understeer.

If you go too far on the suspension, you will need to rid yourself of the RFT's for a more supple, comfortable ride. Some members just get rid of the RFTs and nothing else - I'd experiment - if keeping the OEM shocks and replacing springs, ride the car for a few hunded miles afterwards and then decide.

Coilovers are another decision that depends on what you want from the car. I went conservative to keep a comfortable ride - ACS, Koni FDS, Michelin A/S 3+, and in a week or so, the rear bar.

Hope that helps.

I would happily install coilovers and solve my problem, but my roads here dont allow for this without fully molesting every part of my suspension component and chassis.
thank you for the reply. what do you think of a bushing upgrade in the front/rear control arms?

[mko9]

Here's what I did: Ditch the run flat tires, and buy new, lighter wheels (good for 12lbs per corner). M5 front sway bar and M650D rear sway bar. Koni FSD shocks/struts all around. Now the handling is no longer appalling.

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by mko9

Here's what I did: Ditch the run flat tires, and buy new, lighter wheels (good for 12lbs per corner). M5 front sway bar and M650D rear sway bar. Koni FSD shocks/struts all around. Now the handling is no longer appalling.

I added the ACS Springs, Konis FSD, Dinan Bumperstops, Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ and now only adding the larger 650 rear sway bar to reduce the understeer and lean.

Not enough for some, but the comfort is still there for a luxury sports sedan... Lighter wheels? Would like to, but who knows when.

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

I would happily install coilovers and solve my problem, but my roads here dont allow for this without fully molesting every part of my suspension component and chassis.
thank you for the reply. what do you think of a bushing upgrade in the front/rear control arms?

You have gone beyond my limited experience and knowledge with that question.

[Bmw doubles]

If i did mine again i would've gone with ACS or M Sport springs. Koni adjustables because you're never satisfied with one setting. If you have a 528 or 535 the rear sway upgrade will help with that rolling feeling on coners. The final piece that makes it all me together is switching out the RFT for non RFT.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

If i did mine again i would've gone with ACS or M Sport springs. Koni adjustables because you're never satisfied with one setting. If you have a 528 or 535 the rear sway upgrade will help with that rolling feeling on coners. The final piece that makes it all me together is switching out the RFT for non RFT.

sway bar only after coilovers right?

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

sway bar only after coilovers right?

I am adding a rear swaybar after the Michelin Pilot A/S 3+, ACS Springs and Koni FSD.

Agree with BMW Doubles, if you want a sport suspension that feels planted everywhere or want to adjust for passengers, I'd go with the ACS, Koni Sport Yellows, and non-RFT tires, and then decide on swaybars.

As to the Koni FDS, since some might want feedback, I am still growing accustomed to them after 300 mi, which includes a lot of mixed driving, but I would say that if the road throws you for a bumpy loop, the FDS may be "surprised", as in they may not react as quickly as you would like if your objective is a truly "sportier" feel/true sport shock.

At 80+, a big bump will not react as firmly as sport shocks, but will give you more dampening. Even at slower speeds, if you make a turn and hit uneven road/potholes, they will not react as quickly as your true sport shocks.

But in the sweet spot of city driving at 30-60, the FDS are comfortable and supple, and I assume will be more comfortable than sport shocks. At more extreme speeds and surprise bumps, sport shocks will keep you planted; the FSD will act softer.

If you want predictibility and a full sport ride that is adjustable, I would consider the Koni Sports.

If you want a supple yet sporty daily ride that is comfortable all the time, but with some lack of quick predictibility due to uneven roads, then early in the changes, I'd say the Koni FDS are preferable.

Will update as I drive and after adding the rear sway bar.

[lsturbointeg]

I'm gonna have to say with my KW's I can take a 360 on/off ramp pretty hard without breaking the backend loose. Probably 255's in the front and 295's in the rear helps. I can probably see the need to upgrade the rear swaybar but as is mine's fine.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

I'm gonna have to say with my KW's I can take a 360 on/off ramp pretty hard without breaking the backend loose. Probably 255's in the front and 295's in the rear helps. I can probably see the need to upgrade the rear swaybar but as is mine's fine.

295's on the rear? wheres the fun in that?

[Sylverlee]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

I'm gonna have to say with my KW's I can take a 360 on/off ramp pretty hard without breaking the backend loose. Probably 255's in the front and 295's in the rear helps. I can probably see the need to upgrade the rear swaybar but as is mine's fine.

Do 295's in the back fit? Thought I read something about it knocking against some knuckle part of the suspension.

[lsturbointeg]

Originally Posted by Sylverlee

Do 295's in the back fit? Thought I read something about it knocking against some knuckle part of the suspension.

all depends on your offset. my rears are 21x11 38mm. there's alot of members here running 295's in the back

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

295's on the rear? wheres the fun in that?

this makes no sense?

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by DesmondF10

I am adding a rear swaybar after the Michelin Pilot A/S 3+, ACS Springs and Koni FSD.

Agree with BMW Doubles, if you want a sport suspension that feels planted everywhere or want to adjust for passengers, I'd go with the ACS, Koni Sport Yellows, and non-RFT tires, and then decide on swaybars.

As to the Koni FDS, since some might want feedback, I am still growing accustomed to them after 300 mi, which includes a lot of mixed driving, but I would say that if the road throws you for a bumpy loop, the FDS may be "surprised", as in they may not react as quickly as you would like if your objective is a truly "sportier" feel/true sport shock.

At 80+, a big bump will not react as firmly as sport shocks, but will give you more dampening. Even at slower speeds, if you make a turn and hit uneven road/potholes, they will not react as quickly as your true sport shocks.

But in the sweet spot of city driving at 30-60, the FDS are comfortable and supple, and I assume will be more comfortable than sport shocks. At more extreme speeds and surprise bumps, sport shocks will keep you planted; the FSD will act softer.

If you want predictibility and a full sport ride that is adjustable, I would consider the Koni Sports.

If you want a supple yet sporty daily ride that is comfortable all the time, but with some lack of quick predictibility due to uneven roads, then early in the changes, I'd say the Koni FDS are preferable.

Will update as I drive and after adding the rear sway bar.

To update the above:

Over 500 mi of driving on ACS/Koni FSD with Michelin Pilot A/S 3+ -- the car has settled, and tires are broken in. Over time, ride is more jumbling than I want - not pleased with changes although a lot of improvement has taken hold.

AND THEN TODAY

I installed the 650 Rear Sway Bar and adjusted front camber for understeer. My first reaction and considering placebo effect, I feel the rear tightening up - rear is more responsive. Feel the rear tires grab the cement. Car is less jumble-like.

I think the 16mm rear bar is a necessary mod in the 2014.

For the first since I purchased the car 6 weeks ago, I am comfortable with the ride and handling. I wish it was a little less dampened but it's a big, heavy car. Changes - Approved.

Will update over next week for interested parties - but this finally feels like a comfortable, sophisticated sports sedan.

[ThaiBruin]

Originally Posted by DesmondF10

To update the above:



I wish it was a little less dampened but it's a big, heavy car. Changes - Approved.

Can't you adjust the damping on your Konis?

[Bmw doubles]

Glad to hear its going better though. Agreed on the rear, it's a must upgrade even on a stock suspension setup.

I always wondered about the FSD's. Are they soft then firm on bumps or vice versa?

I fiddle with my adjustables all the time. Some weeks super soft, long periods of medium, but the past couple weeks I've had them at full stiff. Wife doesn't like that setting, but sure is fun on freeway bends.

In regards to tires I am really diggin the all season even on these dry California days. They stick like glue. I'm sure the Pilots are phenomenal!

[Desmond79]

Originally Posted by ThaiBruin

Can't you adjust the damping on your Konis?

The Koni FSD are not adjustable -- they are self-adjusting/responsive to bump/potholes.

At times, I want them to be less compliant, but others will really appreciate the dampening/travel - sportiness without the harshness.