2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications F10 Gurus - Educate Me!!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-02-2017, 06:49 PM   #1
bigscore
Private First Class
United_States
68
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW G30 540i M Sport
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

F10 Gurus - Educate Me!!

Hello Guys....

I've been lurking around trying to do my homework and with all the wealth of info on this site it's getting a bit confusing.

I just got out of my N62 650 and was heavily leaning towards a 2013 F10 550 but after reading about problems with the N63 motor it's not an automatic "slam dunk" for me at the moment.

Enter the 535...

My 650 was modded (suspension, exhaust, air) but the F10 (535 or 550) will allow me to really make some mods and have fun on the road!

Question 1

Pure Turbo Stage 1 is said to give up to 70hp depending on other mods.

How much HP should be expected for Stg 1 on a stock motor with no mods?

I also "picked up" that the JB4 is required along with the Stg 1 to manage the motor.....

Does the JB4 "add" to the Stg 1 for even more gains or does it manage the gains of the Stg 1?

Stg 1 + DP + JB4 = Approximately how much power ?


Sorry for all the questions hope you guys will chime in.


Thanks in advance.

Last edited by bigscore; 03-02-2017 at 07:11 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2017, 11:10 AM   #2
Bmw doubles
Dream crusher
Bmw doubles's Avatar
United_States
983
Rep
2,421
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: westside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 535  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigscore View Post
Hello Guys....

I've been lurking around trying to do my homework and with all the wealth of info on this site it's getting a bit confusing.

I just got out of my N62 650 and was heavily leaning towards a 2013 F10 550 but after reading about problems with the N63 motor it's not an automatic "slam dunk" for me at the moment.

Enter the 535...

My 650 was modded (suspension, exhaust, air) but the F10 (535 or 550) will allow me to really make some mods and have fun on the road!

Question 1

Pure Turbo Stage 1 is said to give up to 70hp depending on other mods.

How much HP should be expected for Stg 1 on a stock motor with no mods?

I also "picked up" that the JB4 is required along with the Stg 1 to manage the motor.....

Does the JB4 "add" to the Stg 1 for even more gains or does it manage the gains of the Stg 1?

Stg 1 + DP + JB4 = Approximately how much power ?


Sorry for all the questions hope you guys will chime in.


Thanks in advance.
The difference between the 550 and 535 is massive in terms of power. A 535 modded on all stock hardware minus dp still doesn't compare to the 550 stock. This may change in the next coming days. Currently I am making 345whp with a flash tune. Come this Weekend I should have a new higher number, hoping for 375, might be able to squeeze more on the dyno, we'll see. In either case if I was able to hit 400whp then I could play with a stock 550.

If I upgraded my turbo PS1 I could be possibly in the low 400's whp range, but that's because I have pwg turbo and stand to gain more on PS1. You would not if you're an ewg turbo, you have to go PS2 as I understand it the ewg stock turbo and PS1 are comparable. A few others can chime in here.

Now, a stock 550 has the ability to flash tune to 600 whp on all stock hardware provided you go the flash route. Piggy back on the 550 might get you in the high 4's. That said, piggy back on a 535 will net about 310whp.

If your plans are to mod when you get the car go 550. Make sure to get a 2013 model or higher.
__________________
535i MIssion Performance, PS2, Helix HPFP Kit, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Dynomax Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable, Custom Short Ram CAI

IG: @bmwdoubles
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2017, 12:28 PM   #3
bake
Colonel
bake's Avatar
United_States
602
Rep
2,188
Posts

Drives: 2011 F10, 2013 E93
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (9)

Best to go 2014+ 550 and get the N63Tu powerplant.
__________________
Bake
2011 Alpine White on Black 535i M-Sport
2013 Space Gray on Fox Red M3 Vert
Appreciate 1
      03-03-2017, 03:43 PM   #4
exylyr
Private
4
Rep
82
Posts

Drives: 2012 550i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

N63tu from 2014+ also has improved valve stem seals to cope with the heat in the "hot V"...
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2017, 05:57 PM   #5
Bmw doubles
Dream crusher
Bmw doubles's Avatar
United_States
983
Rep
2,421
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: westside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 535  [0.00]
Good to know so when I make the crossover to 550
__________________
535i MIssion Performance, PS2, Helix HPFP Kit, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Dynomax Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable, Custom Short Ram CAI

IG: @bmwdoubles
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2017, 09:41 PM   #6
AWF87M2
Major
AWF87M2's Avatar
827
Rep
1,287
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (8)

+1 on the 2014+ lci 550. The N63tu might not be problem free but overall the engine is much more reliable then the N63 on the pre lci cars. Make sure you get a car with CPO or even CPO Platinum warranty as it will really pay off. However If you decide to go with 2011-13 cars make sure it has the customer care package done if buying the vehicle from a third party.
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2017, 10:22 PM   #7
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

550 definitely has the potential to become a serious beast with mods. But saying a modded 535 still cant compare to a stock 550 is just not true. My 535 is fbo minus fmic and a stock 550 is slower. Now that im running stage 2 lpfp running e50 i leave them in the dust. Pre and post 2014
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2017, 11:03 PM   #8
Bmw doubles
Dream crusher
Bmw doubles's Avatar
United_States
983
Rep
2,421
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: westside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 535  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnjwtr View Post
550 definitely has the potential to become a serious beast with mods. But saying a modded 535 still cant compare to a stock 550 is just not true. My 535 is fbo minus fmic and a stock 550 is slower. Now that im running stage 2 lpfp running e50 i leave them in the dust. Pre and post 2014
Really a lpfp and e50 stock is giving you that much whp? Or are you tuned? My car is seriously fast right now on my new turn, but not enough to crush a 550. Keep up with one yes, but not blow them out. After this weekend maybe
__________________
535i MIssion Performance, PS2, Helix HPFP Kit, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Dynomax Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable, Custom Short Ram CAI

IG: @bmwdoubles
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 12:21 AM   #9
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

Tune yes, full bolt on minus the intercooler. Running e50 yes and still have room for more. Sorry the post confused me a little saying modded with stock hardware minus dp. With just tune and downpipe no probably won't take a 550. Full bolt on you will for sure.

Have you raced one? My good friends bro in law has a 2012 550 completely stock, if i can get up with him soon, ill make a video and post it when i get back from hawaii

Last edited by AlpineWhite13; 03-04-2017 at 12:26 AM..
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 01:37 AM   #10
Bmw doubles
Dream crusher
Bmw doubles's Avatar
United_States
983
Rep
2,421
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: westside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 535  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnjwtr View Post
Tune yes, full bolt on minus the intercooler. Running e50 yes and still have room for more. Sorry the post confused me a little saying modded with stock hardware minus dp. With just tune and downpipe no probably won't take a 550. Full bolt on you will for sure.

Have you raced one? My good friends bro in law has a 2012 550 completely stock, if i can get up with him soon, ill make a video and post it when i get back from hawaii
Stock turbo?
__________________
535i MIssion Performance, PS2, Helix HPFP Kit, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Dynomax Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable, Custom Short Ram CAI

IG: @bmwdoubles
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 01:46 AM   #11
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

Yep
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 02:03 AM   #12
Bmw doubles
Dream crusher
Bmw doubles's Avatar
United_States
983
Rep
2,421
Posts

Drives: Fast
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: westside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 535  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnjwtr View Post
Yep
Well then I need a lpfp upgrade
__________________
535i MIssion Performance, PS2, Helix HPFP Kit, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Dynomax Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable, Custom Short Ram CAI

IG: @bmwdoubles
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 02:16 AM   #13
AWF87M2
Major
AWF87M2's Avatar
827
Rep
1,287
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (8)

The 550 is also roughly 300 lbs heavier then a 535i, not that would make much of a difference. With full bolt ons+ E50 on stock turbo and assuming the reaction times for both drivers are the same, I guess you can hang with it up to 80 miles from a dig, or pull roughly one car length if he has problems hooking off the line. I don't see you having a chance at all from a roll if traction is not an issue for him as 550i are highway monsters. FYI: I've never raced a 550 before but I have raced my cousins 750i x drive (N63) on a closed course and I barely pulled a half car length on him from 60-120. Those cars are 400 lbs heavier then the 550, roughly (4600lbs) so you get the idea how strong these cars pull. I was running a mixture of 91/race gas.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 12:29 PM   #14
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

If im not mistaken the 550 curb weight is about 4360, the 535 is about 4060. Yes that makes a difference. Ive raced 3 different 550i's 2 of them on the highway from about a 50 and 60 roll and one from the dig and rolls cuz i know the guy through a friend. A fbo 535 will beat a 550. How many guys on here have actually raced one and what were ur mods.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 03:37 PM   #15
FSociety
IG @bmwF9xG80
FSociety's Avatar
3810
Rep
7,592
Posts

Drives: G80 M3, X4M, G07 X7m50
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC to NJ to Orlando FL

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2023 BMW G80 M3  [0.00]
2020 BMW X4MC  [0.00]
16' BMW X4 M40i  [10.00]
06 Cadillac STS  [0.00]
2012 550 is slower than 2014+ 550 stock lol ; I've seen FBO EnzoTuned 550xi destroying M5 CP Bms stg1 on roll with a 2013 (FBO/550xi tuned) as camera car couldn't keep up.

__________________
60-130mph 6.5s X4M #HCP
60-130mph 5.0s G80 M3 #OrlandoAutowerks Sauce

IG: @bmwF9XG80

Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 06:19 PM   #16
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

Yes i know this lol. By 45 bhp. Im talking fbo 535i vs 550 stock either year. Without racing any opinion is just that
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2017, 09:14 PM   #17
SLVSRFR
Captain
SLVSRFR's Avatar
Guam
244
Rep
785
Posts

Drives: BMW 550i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnjwtr View Post
Yes i know this lol. By 45 bhp. Im talking fbo 535i vs 550 stock either year. Without racing any opinion is just that
What are the mods of your FBO 535i and do you have dyno results or 1/4 mile timestamps.

As of right now, it's hearsay

Anyway, I don't see the point in this debate. You should expect to win if you tapped out on mods for the platform.

Spend 5 minutes and throw even a $300 S1 Piggyback on the 550 and the 535i will not win any time of the day, week, month, or year.

A FBO 335i E90 could walk all stock F10's including the M5. What's the point here?

Last edited by SLVSRFR; 03-04-2017 at 09:27 PM..
Appreciate 1
FSociety3810.00
      03-04-2017, 09:31 PM   #18
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

Exactly, its hearsay for anyone who hasnt been in or seen a race with the two. I have
FBO minus fmic meaning jb4 map 7, downpipe , chargepipe, intake, stage 2 lpfp ,e50. Thats not tapped out on mods

Nope no timestamps or dyno. Im speaking from my personal experience.


Im not debating anything other than that. Thats the point.

Last edited by AlpineWhite13; 03-04-2017 at 10:25 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2017, 12:20 AM   #19
FSociety
IG @bmwF9xG80
FSociety's Avatar
3810
Rep
7,592
Posts

Drives: G80 M3, X4M, G07 X7m50
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC to NJ to Orlando FL

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2023 BMW G80 M3  [0.00]
2020 BMW X4MC  [0.00]
16' BMW X4 M40i  [10.00]
06 Cadillac STS  [0.00]
+1 SLVSRFR
Also maybe DriverMod? 3-5 back to back pulls?
I haven't seen a 535 break 370whp yet, the most i saw was 350whp/450wtq

Not sure who has dyno'ed their N63 here but I think badblack550xi knows. I just saw a N63TU dyno at 406/466 (SAE/5) stock so even that will destroy a 535 (V8 linear vs N55 dead after 5500rpm)
__________________
60-130mph 6.5s X4M #HCP
60-130mph 5.0s G80 M3 #OrlandoAutowerks Sauce

IG: @bmwF9XG80

Appreciate 1
SLVSRFR243.50
      03-05-2017, 12:59 AM   #20
SLVSRFR
Captain
SLVSRFR's Avatar
Guam
244
Rep
785
Posts

Drives: BMW 550i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
+1 SLVSRFR
Also maybe DriverMod? 3-5 back to back pulls?
I haven't seen a 535 break 370whp yet, the most i saw was 350whp/450wtq

Not sure who has dyno'ed their N63 here but I think badblack550xi knows. I just saw a N63TU dyno at 406/466 (SAE/5) stock so even that will destroy a 535 (V8 linear vs N55 dead after 5500rpm)
Exactly.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2017, 01:08 AM   #21
SLVSRFR
Captain
SLVSRFR's Avatar
Guam
244
Rep
785
Posts

Drives: BMW 550i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnjwtr View Post
Exactly, its hearsay for anyone who hasnt been in or seen a race with the two. I have
FBO minus fmic meaning jb4 map 7, downpipe , chargepipe, intake, stage 2 lpfp ,e50. Thats not tapped out on mods

Nope no timestamps or dyno. Im speaking from my personal experience.


Im not debating anything other than that. Thats the point.
It's not hearsay in that aspect. We know what the 550 traps stock on the 1/4. Unless you prove otherwise with substantial evidence, there is no basis that a FBO 535i can beat a stock 550. Especially when other F10 535i owners, that are modded, have dyno'd and ran 1/4 miles. Wouldn't beat a stock N63/N63tu on paper or on hardball. That's just the reality of it as of today. With a Pure Stage Turbo upgrade, it's possible.

I wouldn't even consider that an accomplishment really. My modded 550 could possibly beat a stock M5, that isn't an amazing feat.

Stock '11 550 Dyno'd at 386/439

I know for a fact, if I removed my tune, intakes, and dps. You wouldn't 'leave me in the dust' with those mods.

Last edited by SLVSRFR; 03-05-2017 at 02:46 AM..
Appreciate 1
FSociety3810.00
      03-05-2017, 01:38 AM   #22
AlpineWhite13
Private First Class
14
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i m sport.
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

Your right it's not an accomplishment. A modded car beating any stock car isnt much of one. The reality of it is theres no basis for you or anyone else to say it cant happen unless you know what you are talking about or have substantial proof. Do u know of a fbo 535 on a heavy e mixture being dyno'd or on a 1/4 mile, If so what were the numbers? And what were the mods of the 535 1/4 mile that u say u know of? U have a 550 so its understandable to be a little bias . But you are wrong
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST