[indus]

When the 535d arrives at the end of next month it will be my first ever diesel. I have always run my current E60 M5 on SUL without fail, not sure if I needed to but it just felt right to run a highly powered engine like that on SUL.

Anyway today I filled up my present car at a Shell garage and noticed that regular diesel was 131.9p/litre and the V Power was 139.9p so quite a difference. Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks

[bike99]

No. Many magazines made experiments, and they typically proved that more expensive fuel does not save you anything.

[Touring]

Originally Posted by wallstreet

I'm jealous of you all.

Try to convert that to Dollars/gallon. Then you are not jealous anymore :-)

We dont buy diesels in europe because we want to. But because we cant afford not to.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by Touring

We dont buy diesels in europe because we want to. But because we cant afford not to.

Not necessarily so; I bought my 535d for the low-end power. It's that 600Nm of torque that gives me, quite literally, a kick in the backside and a smile on my face, whilst getting from 0-100 kph in less than 6 seconds .
Certainly it's more economical than it's petrol counterpart, but when you dial in the extra cost of the diesel engine and the fuel which is about 5 pence per litre more expensive than petrol in the UK, the running costs probably break even over a 3 year period.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by indus

When the 535d arrives at the end of next month it will be my first ever diesel. I have always run my current E60 M5 on SUL without fail, not sure if I needed to but it just felt right to run a highly powered engine like that on SUL.

Anyway today I filled up my present car at a Shell garage and noticed that regular diesel was 131.9p/litre and the V Power was 139.9p so quite a difference. Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks

There are conflicting opinions on this but, to my knowledge, there's no scientific evidence to indicate any difference. I ran my E92 330d on supermarket diesel and do likewise with my F10 535d.

[Touring]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Not necessarily so; I bought my 535d for the low-end power. It's that 600Nm of torque that gives me, quite literally, a kick in the backside and a smile on my face, whilst getting from 0-100 kph in less than 6 seconds .
Certainly it's more economical than it's petrol counterpart, but when you dial in the extra cost of the diesel engine and the fuel which is about 5 pence per litre more expensive than petrol in the UK, the running costs probably break even over a 3 year period.

Yes the 535d is an amazing machine. But if I lived in the states I would have bought the 550 I think :-)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by indus

When the 535d arrives at the end of next month it will be my first ever diesel. I have always run my current E60 M5 on SUL without fail, not sure if I needed to but it just felt right to run a highly powered engine like that on SUL.

Anyway today I filled up my present car at a Shell garage and noticed that regular diesel was 131.9p/litre and the V Power was 139.9p so quite a difference. Is it worth the extra money?

Thanks

I use a premium fuel, BP Ultimate as it the only one local to me. But have noticed the price differential has increased, used to be 4-pence a litre more, now is going crazy at 10-pence.

As to using premium fuels, depends what you do it for, higher cetane rating, better combustion, reduced internal smoke levels, engine cleaning properites, smoother running. Some gain more power particularly mid range, (my engine does), or just expect more mpg. At 4-pence a litre I'd break even, due to extra mpg, although using it more for the improved engine properties.

I know it is all open to debate and lots of folks don't believe the tests when they show improved performance, whether it is run on a dyno', or controlled road use. I researched the subject, along with the additive alternative. Got a lot of engine data from the injection equipment makers, who tested the cleaning/additive packages and decided I'd go with their evidence, of cleaner engine parts and less wear on injectors and pumps, etc.

I know of diesel/injection specialists who suspect some fuel is not up to the quality our modern diesel engines need, particularly when it comes to the coking issues.

A final thought...

Dr Wolfgang Schneider a key development Director at Ford of Europe feels the introduction of the fuel is a big step forward for diesel motoring. “We’ve welcomed BP Ultimate Diesel. As the first performance fuel specifically developed to meet the needs of diesel engined vehicles, we can see clearly how it contributes to lower emissions of regulated pollutants, improved cold starting, lower noise, improved economy and performance and improved protection of the engine. This, we’ve found, allows for cleaner, more efficient vehicle operation and helps protect diesel engines for longer life."

HighlandPete

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by Touring

Yes the 535d is an amazing machine. But if I lived in the states I would have bought the 550 I think :-)

Yes, I was forgetting the V8. The 550i would indeed be an irresistible temptation with fuel at such low prices.
However, that might all change if China calls in the US loans!

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I use a premium fuel, BP Ultimate as it the only one local to me. But have noticed the price differential has increased, used to be 4-pence a litre more, now is going crazy at 10-pence.

As to using premium fuels, depends what you do it for, higher cetane rating, better combustion, reduced internal smoke levels, engine cleaning properites, smoother running. Some gain more power particularly mid range, (my engine does), or just expect more mpg. At 4-pence a litre I'd break even, due to extra mpg, although using it more for the improved engine properties.

I know it is all open to debate and lots of folks don't believe the tests when they show improved performance, whether it is run on a dyno', or controlled road use. I researched the subject, along with the additive alternative. Got a lot of engine data from the injection equipment makers, who tested the cleaning/additive packages and decided I'd go with their evidence, of cleaner engine parts and less wear on injectors and pumps, etc.

I know of diesel/injection specialists who suspect some fuel is not up to the quality our modern diesel engines need, particularly when it comes to the coking issues.

A final thought...



HighlandPete

Very interesting but, as you say the price premium is just getting silly.
I tried two consecutive tankfuls of Shell premium diesel in my E92 330d and noticed no difference whatsoever. However, it wasn't exactly a scientific test and I'm always open to suggestion - if I saw hard reliable evidence of dyno testing, I might think again, but the benefits would have to be significant in order to justify the extra cost.

[bike99]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

...

A final thought...

HighlandPete

Well, This is very subjective. For many years Ford had on each vehicle a sticker "Ford recommends BP fuel". So any quote there is a part of marketing not a science.

[james d]

Always went for Super Unleaded on high performance Petrol engines(E46 M3) but with diesels which can seemingly run on old chip shop oil, happy to use standard Derv in 520D and save a few quid/fill up

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by james d

...but with diesels which can seemingly run on old chip shop oil, happy to use standard Derv in 520D and save a few quid/fill up

But all fuel types that will 'burn' in a diesel are not equal, not even the diesel to BS standards.

One of the key areas for concern is the range of lubricity, the minimum standard, as per the HHFR 'wear scar' test isn't always achieved, let alone the standard the vehicle manufacturers would like to see. So often additives are really needed to get good lubricity.

HighlandPete

[cerbera]

At the risk of becoming a nerd...the main difference between the standard diesel and Advanced/Ultimate etc premium diesel is the Cetane level; EU standards require a minimum Cetane of 51, typical cetane of the 'better' fuels is 55+...theory is that it will combust faster/more cleanly = more power plus better for the engine.

There may be some difference in the additives, but the oil companies don't specifically say that the additive blend is much different.

I ran my old 535d for 2000 miles using standard fuel, then ran it for 2000 miles on the more expensive stuff.I couldn't tell the difference in the drive, but the overall MPG did improve by over 2mpg with the advanced fuel.......

[james d]

I wouldn't actually put chip shop oil in my F11, I tend to use Shell basic diesel,my point was that you get more benefit from premium fuels the higher performance the engine, and with petrol engines the benefit is greater. I bow to your knowledge of lubricity(great word,must try and use it more in conversation!)though Pete

[F11-Diesel]

I drove 200K in an E60 525 D.
Used all kinds of Diesel and never could figure out any difference.
But for lubricities sake I wil use premium now in the F11!

[HighlandPete]

I suppose I've lived with diesel engines too long, so have a bit of experience. I know when we moved to ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) we did find that diesel was now no longer good enough for many engine's injection equipment. Hence the use of additives such as the Millers product, to add back the lubricity, lost from the removal of the sulphur content.

Personally I think folks often fill with a tank, or two, of premium fuel and don't notice the difference. To me the opposite is true, use premium all the time and then put a tank of standard fuel in. That's where the butt dyno feels the performance difference, back to premium, engine back to peak.

The other thing, from experience, is the smoke levels, from different fuels. OK, a lot is hidden with DPFs fitted these days, but go back a few years and smoke on start up was so different with the spread of fuels. Bosch smoke tests, certainly showed up the differences. Typically, a few years back, VW diesel's would have reduced smoke levels on BP fuel, both for cold start up and under medium, to heavy acceleration.

HighlandPete

[indus]

Thanks for all the replies. I suppose the only way to see if there is a performance gain is to try them and see. Getting a few extra mpg is not worth it as it costs so much more.

So the only other potential advantage is to prevent carbon build up, but then this would be cheaper to use from time to time

http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/produ...4--for-diesel-

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Yes, I was forgetting the V8. The 550i would indeed be an irresistible temptation with fuel at such low prices.
However, that might all change if China calls in the US loans!

Yep and thats closer than you may think, the US government are walking on eggs at the moment.