[Milestune]

OK. Ordered 2 O2 sensors. I'll let you know.

[gclions]

Haha, holy crap. Impatient much?

Kidding, but you could have probably waited a bit. Have you done any datalogging?

[Milestune]

Originally Posted by gclions

Haha, holy crap. Impatient much?

Kidding, but you could have probably waited a bit. Have you done any datalogging?

Yes, I'm very impatient. The car is almost at 90K.... Can't hurt.

No datalogging

[gclions]

Where did you get them, and if you would PM me the price? I'm looking around for the best price, as these things are expensive. For the upstream sensors at least.

[EL Jeffe 5]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

Sure, I will report tomorrow

I didn't get chance to read trough whole post, but I did test my car today @40mph and 60mph didn't get any issues.
Good luck

[Milestune]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

I didn't get chance to read trough whole post, but I did test my car today @40mph and 60mph didn't get any issues.
Good luck

Interesting.... Thanks for doing the test!

[Zer0Cool92]

I have this issue only in comfort mode. It's sort of a vibration around 1400ish rpm and feels like the car is choking a hit until I hit the gas hard. I always drive in sport mode so RPMs don't drop below 2k.

Some people say they replaced fuel pump and it fixed it. Some people replaced fuel pump and problem was still present.

Let me know if you come up with a fix. I have been trying to get this fixed for a while now. Replaced ignition coils and spark plugs, didn't fix it.

My buddy who is a Bmw tech at a local dealer said he will check over my spark plugs again and then check fuel pump

[gclions]

I've replaced both HPFPs. Dealer replaced passenger side, I replaced the driver's side. Fixed a stumble at idle, but there's still something there occasionally.

[Milestune]

Soo.... Like I've said, been to two dealerships. They replaced transfer case and entire transmission. Problem is still there. Both dealerships (AFTER thousands in repairs) tell me this is just the way these cars are.... So, MasterC17, you are correct sir.

I went ahead and replaced all 4 O2 sensors. Car idles much smoother now as well as the vibration is less... But it's still there. Oh well.

[Teddylongtooth]

Hey guys my car has a slight vibration at idle and vibrates a lot as im excellerating with the peddle mashed, kinda like the vibration you feel in a jet just before you lift off the ground and its gets smooth. Once I let off and ease into my cruising speed the vibration goes away. It has always vibrated, before and after new plugs and HPFP recall. I did some research on the engine and something interesting I learned is this engine has an odd firing order that may be the cause of the vibes and if so there isnt anything that can be done. Now' when I say "odd firing order" I mean that in my own way, most V configuration engines fire the cylinders from left to right 1 at a time back and forth left to right. Our engine fires left and right but it also fires 2 cylinders 1 after the other on the same side rather than than left right left right left right ect and it does it on both sides at different times, once at the beginning of the timing cycle and once in the middle of the cycle and I think is where the vibration is coming from. If you dont understand what I just described, look up the n63 firing order and a firing order diagram and you'll undstand as long as you understand the left right part as the norm.

I decided to just find the image and post it, the numbers in (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) are the firing order the other numbers are the cylinders, if you follow the firing order you will see it fires 2 cylinders on the same bank 1 after the other. So its 4&5 on the left side then 8&1 on the right. I think this is why we have vibrations, I read articles about this firing order from credible engine builders that claim this will cause a harmonic vibration. I've also read many threads about this engine and its rough idle and vibrations and I have never read anything about how anyone fixed it, even after plugs, injectors, ignition coils or fuel pumps. I even had a bmw SA and a "TOP" technition sit in my car as it idled rough and they said "its a v8 with some rumble" I said "its a BMW and it should be smooth get the F' out of my car!" They dont know anything.....


P.S yes this is the s63 M5 manifold but the firing order is the same as our n63

[gclions]

I agree with what you're saying, with one point of disagreement.

A typical V engine has exhaust manifolds on a specific side or bank. As a product of the turbos in the valley on the N63, BMW engineers were forced to come up with a creative manifold to allow mounting of the turbos side by side. Without the manifold design you posted a picture of, the turbos would likely have been fore and aft.

If you notice, the firing order always alternates exhaust manifolds. The negative consequences related to alternating sides versus alternating exhaust manifolds would likely be catastrophic on the turbos. Keeping pressure surges and cycling stress low only works by alternating manifolds.

In a typical V8, if you were to fire cylinders 1 and 2 back to back, yes you would get vibrations, but that is as much a result of discharged exhaust pressure/back pressure as it is an imbalance. The crossover exhaust manifolds on this engine negate the effect, and I think any imbalance is negligible.

[Teddylongtooth]

Originally Posted by gclions

I agree with what you're saying, with one point of disagreement.

A typical V engine has exhaust manifolds on a specific side or bank. As a product of the turbos in the valley on the N63, BMW engineers were forced to come up with a creative manifold to allow mounting of the turbos side by side. Without the manifold design you posted a picture of, the turbos would likely have been fore and aft.

If you notice, the firing order always alternates exhaust manifolds. The negative consequences related to alternating sides versus alternating exhaust manifolds would likely be catastrophic on the turbos. Keeping pressure surges and cycling stress low only works by alternating manifolds.

In a typical V8, if you were to fire cylinders 1 and 2 back to back, yes you would get vibrations, but that is as much a result of discharged exhaust pressure/back pressure as it is an imbalance. The crossover exhaust manifolds on this engine negate the effect, and I think any imbalance is negligible.

I know what your saying, but the manfold I posted is NOT our manifold design, it is the M5's maniflod. The manifold for the n63 and n63tu are not a crossover design, the fact that 2 cylinders fire on the same bank in succession are the possible reason for the vibration and nobody has eliminated it since its been brought up.

In this pic which is our manifold design you can clearly see we dont have the cross over pipes like the M5. The firing order is a debatable concept and hasnt been favored by anyone but bmw, look it up and you'll find out for yourself.

[gclions]

Hmm, interesting. I see the new Ford Coyote engine switched to the same firing order. There apparently is a small performance benefit to this strange firing order. Did a little searching, some discuss this firing order, or firing orders similar to it, evens out the bearing wear in the engine. What I found also discussed some designs of the crank shaft related to this firing order, and any resulting torsional stress on the crank shaft was minimal.

This is very interesting to me, and I'm curious what other info is out there.

[Teddylongtooth]

Originally Posted by gclions

Hmm, interesting. I see the new Ford Coyote engine switched to the same firing order. There apparently is a small performance benefit to this strange firing order. Did a little searching, some discuss this firing order, or firing orders similar to it, evens out the bearing wear in the engine. What I found also discussed some designs of the crank shaft related to this firing order, and any resulting torsional stress on the crank shaft was minimal.

This is very interesting to me, and I'm curious what other info is out there.

I wish I could still find the article I read about the firing order and its possible issues, but at the time I dismissed the information because I hadnt yet bought a n63 f10 and wasnt experiencing the vibration yet. If I had the car at the time I woulda saved the article and been able to posted a link for everyone to read. Its interesting what they say about it, but its only my theory, I could be way off but to me its the only thing I've learned that makes sense.

[Drifter2090]

OP did you ever get this resolved?

[BBHMM]

Dam guys i have same issues with rough idle whole life of engine 88k miles but after dealership replaced engine.... engine running good but when acceleration more then 40% gas its nightmare whole car make vibration its fells like tire worn out and unbalanced... did alot of job and $$$ into repair and Monday going back to dealership.... after all this dealership engine replacement have this errors in bimmer link (car info memory)[IMG][/IMG]