|
|
|
2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 Do You Like The Handling Of Your F10 |
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
05-19-2017, 10:19 PM | #67 | |
Tasmanian
28
Rep 102
Posts |
Exactly what he said!!!
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2017, 09:28 PM | #68 |
Captain
1649
Rep 891
Posts |
I agree, the only difference I notice between electric and hydraulic steering in the F10s is that the hydraulic steering provides slightly more on-center feel than the electric steering. Both steering systems unfortunately have almost no road feel especially compared with BMWs from the past.
__________________
2021 MBB M5C (retired) 2018 Daytona Violet M3 ZCP (retired), 2016 AW 550i (retired) 2013 EBII 335i (retired), 2008 Platinum Bronze 535xi (retired), 2007 Monaco Blue 335i (retired) 1999 Hellrot M3 coupe (retired) |
Appreciate
1
S1ammin44.00 |
05-21-2017, 10:50 PM | #69 |
Major General
4484
Rep 5,365
Posts |
These (2012 base 535i & 2014 535i M-Sport) are my first BMW's and I couldn't be happier. The "M" handles significantly better than the base; though I'm satisfied with the handling of the base. The "5" is a big car and will NEVER handle like a "3", or ANY small car. IMHO, BMW hit the mark at which they were aiming. I also have no issues with the steering. For me, it centers just fine.
I know I could never drive a MB as long as they have the shifter the same as the wiper stalk on most other cars. as often As it rains here I would probably hit the shifter thinking I was turning on the wipers! |
Appreciate
0
|
05-22-2017, 09:00 AM | #70 | |
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep 15,858
Posts |
Quote:
I also feel much the same, the Five is a big car, will never compare to the previous generations, let alone to a Three. The whole front suspension is different, whether we have hydraulic or EPS. It is designed to be more refined. After all, it is a step down from the F01 7-series, not a step up from the F30. BMW claimed (the then new) front wishbone suspension isolates some of the negative road interference. That translates in my book to also losing some of the steering 'rawness', which we feel as feedback. The C&D comparison of hydraulic vs. EPS in the F10 chassis, does support it is not simply EPS which changes the way we perceive the F10 steering. Both steering and handling in the F10/F11 range of models is very dependant on how we specify the cars. We are not always comparing the same chassis dynamics in these discussions. Specification and expectations will give a wide range of opinion. |
|
Appreciate
1
S1ammin44.00 |
05-22-2017, 09:02 AM | #71 |
Captain
155
Rep 751
Posts
Drives: '12 BMW AW 550xi
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Miami, FL
|
The car is big and heavy, but I have zero complains with the powerful 550 xdrive. My car is fully loaded accept the night vision (zero regrets) + dropped on ACS springs and it handles well imo. Definitely no floating on turns. I hardly imagine myself driving a base 5 series even if it has TTV8. Great looking car, but drives like e series. So, most of you're right about it being a boat without right options & springs (coilovers).
__________________
'15 Porsche Macan S / Black & Garnet Red / 20" RS Spyder Wheels / CF trim / Red Calipers / Black Rear Badge.
'12 AW 550xi / Dinan S2 / Arkym CF Spoiler / 3D Design Style Splitter / Eisenmann Race Exhaust / 20' HRE FF01 / ACS Springs / CF Grill / CF 3D Design Diffuser / Blue Calipers... |
Appreciate
0
|
05-23-2017, 06:38 AM | #72 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
535
Rep 1,873
Posts |
Quote:
I have an F10 X-drive with hydraulic steering and it's far different from the E90, E39 I6 and E46 hydraulic rack-and-pinion set ups. I do believe it is superior to, but more boosted than, the E39 recirculating ball steering and different front end in the V8 E39s. The F10 steering ratio is also significantly slower than the E90, which contributes to the "big, slow" feeling, and the mechanical advantage given to the driver by the slower steering reduces steering effort and feedback. I've never driven an LCI, but people say it's noticeably better. I'd still love to know why - revised rack? revised pump? Or is it only improved on the electric assist models and it's just software improvements? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-23-2017, 08:39 AM | #73 |
Captain
1649
Rep 891
Posts |
My car has the hydraulic setup and I agree with your assessment that the steering is pretty slow which does give it the feeling of being a big ponderous car. My previous car (F30) had electric steering that was much quicker but it had even less feel. I much prefer the hydraulic steering feel in my F10, especially the on-center feel.
__________________
2021 MBB M5C (retired) 2018 Daytona Violet M3 ZCP (retired), 2016 AW 550i (retired) 2013 EBII 335i (retired), 2008 Platinum Bronze 535xi (retired), 2007 Monaco Blue 335i (retired) 1999 Hellrot M3 coupe (retired) |
Appreciate
1
Bmw doubles983.50 |
05-23-2017, 09:21 AM | #74 |
Enlisted Member
9
Rep 30
Posts |
I hope upgraded sway arms helps me enjoy the car more. I came from a 2000 bmw 750il on coil-overs. Unfortunately my 550 is only fun to drive in a straight line. My e38 for such a big car was fantastic. Steering weight was perfect, highway was great, loads if confidence going into turns and virtually no body roll. I really miss my e38! But im going to do a few more things to the f10 to get it where it should've been from factory.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-23-2017, 06:34 PM | #75 |
Lieutenant General
9159
Rep 14,521
Posts |
i throw my 535's fat a$$ it turns pretty hard and nothing gives me greater enjoyment than her squealing when her back ends starts to somewhat breaks loose. like i mentioned ealier push your car a little bit more and the more you do it the more you get to know what your car can do!
__________________
~F90Conversion~21"3Piece Forged AvantGardeWheels~KWV1Coilovers~CQUENCE slotted/drilled rotors~GoodridgeStainlesslines~MeisterschaftQuadEx haust~Akrapovic 4"tips~VRSF DP~VRSF CP~TurboSmart BOV~K&N filter~CarbonFiberExteriorComponents~GladenAlphaCo mponents~MatchUp7BMW~Punch P300-12T~ Follow me on Instagram: lsturbointeg |
Appreciate
2
Bmw doubles983.50 Russkey154.50 |
05-23-2017, 09:22 PM | #76 |
Captain
158
Rep 866
Posts |
Although I am quite happy with the base suspension 535d, I'll disagree about Mercedes. My 2005 E320 CDI had the "luxury" suspension standard, handled quite nicely (perhaps even better than the BMW) and it never screeched, no matter how fast I made the turns, which was never abusively but quite briskly. Both have double-wishbone front and multi-link rear suspension - the best design outside of a 911/Cayman/Boxster macpherson strut sports car setup IMO.
I was in the market for a comfortable highway cruiser, wanted an inline 6 turbodiesel, and got it new for CPO used money. The d comes with upgraded tires, even if they are all-season and RFT's. Its no sports car, but its still a BMW. The steering and I guess road feel in the LCI f10 is known to have been breathed on by BMW. No complaints. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-23-2017, 11:30 PM | #77 | |
Major General
4484
Rep 5,365
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
05-24-2017, 09:06 PM | #78 | |
Captain
158
Rep 866
Posts |
Quote:
PL |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-24-2017, 10:29 PM | #79 | |
Private First Class
44
Rep 194
Posts |
Quote:
I also expect that once I get non-RF tires, the feel will get even closer to what I've had in the past, but as it stands now, I really do like the way this car handles. The 'feel' I got when test driving all of the several BMW's I test drove is what sold me on BMW. I had little difficulty deciding between this suspension and the others I tried though. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-25-2017, 06:47 AM | #80 | |
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep 15,858
Posts |
Quote:
I'm interested in other users experience, as there does seem to be variations. Some who say there is little loading in turns, even less pull back to center. I've been giving my car particular attention over the past few days, as I've never noticed a problem or deficiency in self-centering or loading in the 'curves'. I moved to the F11 from an E91, with what some view as a pretty good HPAS steering system, both for steering speed, response and feedback. Appreciate the rack is quite slow in the F10/11, and steering is less weighted, but don't find big differences in how the steering feels for self-centering, or loading up as we'd expect. Of course it is different to the E91, but that is expected in the bigger car with a longer wheel base. What I did notice when test driving ahead of getting my car, an example with SAT (my car has the Sport Auto Transmission) had better steering responses than the standard auto models. What the is the experience of other users? Have other users found SAT (or other options) give different steering characteristics? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-31-2017, 01:14 PM | #81 | ||
Dream crusher
984
Rep 2,421
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
535i MIssion Performance, PS2, Helix HPFP Kit, Wagner FMIC, Spec 3 clutch, Steel SMF, Wolf Racing CP, UUC SSK, GFB dv, SprintBooster, Custom Dynomax Exhaust, M5 Sways, Eibach OE Springs, Koni Sports Adjustable, Custom Short Ram CAI
IG: @bmwdoubles |
||
Appreciate
0
|
06-01-2017, 11:07 AM | #82 |
Lieutenant
142
Rep 491
Posts |
I doubt it will make any difference. Like some of us said, the steering rack is slow (steering ratio is low), so you have to turn the steering wheel a lot before the wheel physically turns. I'm on 19s and I can deliberately oscillate the steering wheel somewhere between 11 and 1 o'clock positions (maybe about a 30 degrees angle), but the car won't swerve much at all. I guess the massive length of the car, with a long wheelbase, does not help as well. It's similar to driving a long bus.
|
Appreciate
2
Bmw doubles983.50 Antetokounmpo1551.50 |
06-01-2017, 01:13 PM | #83 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
535
Rep 1,873
Posts |
Quote:
It is true that F10 steering is slow in general. Hydraulic and electric assist can be significantly different. Even more significant - some electric assist systems can vary their ratio depending on conditions. I'm not positive about the F10, but an F30 loaner I had sure seemed like it had a faster ratio when driving in a parking lot (the wheel went less than one turn in each direction lock-to-lock and crossing my arms over was enough for tight turns to park) than on the road (where, at speed, crossing my arms over was a large radius left from one four lane road to another). Add to this the ability to have different steering ratios depending on COMFORT, SPORT etc... and it's hard to generalize. A year ago an Infinity commercial featured some guy walking through the onboard steering menu, selecting QUICK and FIRM for a sporty drive. My F10 has hydraulic steering. It's slower than I'd like, for sure. My E90 is pretty close to perfect in this regard. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-01-2017, 07:17 PM | #84 | |
Lieutenant
142
Rep 491
Posts |
Quote:
http://www.richardaucock.com/blog/how-a-bmw-launch-car-mis-spec-lost-it-a-review-star |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-02-2017, 07:52 AM | #85 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
535
Rep 1,873
Posts |
Quote:
It irks me, and leads to great misunderstanding and misinformation, when generalizations come out and posters don't acknowledge that there's a lot of differences even within a single model. "F10s are nose heavy" - were you driving a 550xi or a 520i RWD? "BMW NAV sucks" - CCC? CIC? NBT? NBT Evo? "F10s corner flat" - DDC? ARS? 704? passive base suspension? It's a shame that BMW isn't doing all that they could with EPS. A nice EPS rack with good software (and user customization) could really win in this area. Like the Infiniti commercial showed - how firm and fast would you like your steering? Just dial it in. I do long for more steering feedback. I remember when I had PS2s on my E39 (with the inline-6 front end - much better than the V8's) I could feel reflective paint on the road ("SCHOOL ZONE AHEAD") through the wheel. From what I've read the F10s suspension geometry tunes a bunch of it out regardless of whether you have EPS or HPS. This could be because they want a luxury cruiser. Or because X-Drive is so prevalent and you'd get lots of torque steer if you had a geometry optimized for feedback. Or maybe it's the harsh run flats - I *do* get feedback in the steering of my HPS X-Drive, but it's rarely "good" or "sporty" feedback. It's usually the run flats crashing and bouncing over small road imperfections. FWIW, I'm ditching the runflats on my next set of summer tires, but may still go runflat for my winter tires. |
|
Appreciate
2
cdmulders326.50 HighlandPete6658.50 |
06-03-2017, 05:22 AM | #86 | |
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep 15,858
Posts |
Quote:
So easy to be comparing 'apples and pears'. Test drives opinions are often skewed, simply because the driver doesn't know the specification, or is comparing to something completely different. We often get comparisons to the E39, even there, what model and specification are we comparing to? I had the 540i touring with the 'compromised' steering system, so a different comparison to the F10/F11, than someone who owned say an E39 530i with the superb rack and pinion steering and a lighter front end. F10/F11 models are very different to drive according to specification, same as all generations of BMW ranges have been in my experience. Also, as the market evolves, so do the priorities. I know a few of us would love a bit more steering feedback, but do wonder how many users buying into the 5-series market, really want the raw steering feel of years ago. I'd wager more 5-series users, over the years, have asked BMW for lighter steering, than commented on the loss of feedback. Here in the Europe, EPS was introduced into some models in the E9x range, several years ahead of the F3x models. Hardly a peep about the steering, just that it was lighter. We never got all the EPS talk and debates until the F3x models were launched, and everyone was aware they had EPS. Even the motor magazines seemed to miss the fact EPS was there in some E9x models. Interpret that how you like, but I believe it does say something about users. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-03-2017, 08:40 AM | #87 |
Captain
332
Rep 736
Posts |
My 2014 F10 was a lease turn-in, and is equipped with the base suspension - it handled like a floating luxury liner. Heavy, not planted, rolling, and emasculated of its BMW'ness.
Drove a 2016 F10 with similar options but the base handling was significantly improved. So I went on my adventure - ACS, Koni FSD, 650i rear bar, Pirelli A/S 3+. It is not my E90, but I bought the F10 because I wanted more comfort and space than the E90. The new suspension components have the car planted, less roll, and the tires produce a more supple ride. It is actually responsive at lower speeds around corners - I can make a quick turn that I can actually feel. At higher speeds, I can feel the rear end during a turn. No, it is not an E90, the ride is still too damped, and if I had my way, I would venture into Koni Sport Adjustable territory. It is now a lux cruiser with a dampened feel for the road. I can go 60 through wide turns on the tollways with aplomb but I know the car's limitations (I'd rather it dampened less) and can enjoy some sportiness with the heft of the car. It's a compromise, like any car, but an enjoyable comfortable lux sports machine. I kept my '09 E90 and at 84k, am changing out the trim, door sill, kidneys, sport pedals, etc. I want to keep it for the 6 speed, although I wish it had a Miata type precision stick. Next is ditching run flats.
__________________
2017 540i M, Carbon Black/Mocha, 20 in. on Michelin PS4S, CF Mirrors/Rear Spoiler
2009 328i 6 spd stick, Crimson Red/Sport Suspension, Bavsound Stage 1, 2 Former BMWs: '79 320i, '84 325e, 2000 328i, 2014 535i |
Appreciate
1
Bmw doubles983.50 |
06-05-2017, 11:31 AM | #88 | |
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep 15,858
Posts |
Quote:
Or do you mean adjustable wishbones? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|