[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

^ Thanks for the prompt response. So to clarify, I was concerned that the torque is already too high for 8-speed ZF and with additional DP could possibly be over 450 wtq (which let's say is a limit for ZF 8HP45) but if I understood your correctly the torque can be dialed down for long-term tranny reliability, correct? How is it going to affect WHP? Can the WHP be dialed up while torque is dialed down, because it looks like N55 in F10 is kinda low on HP, but too high on torque?

The trade for hp vs tq is a question better suited for MissionPerformance you can dial down the torque if that is a concern, but again MP would be better at explaining this because their approach is maximum power within the safe limits of your car. Not just plain old max power until you knock or worse. The N55 is low in the hp dept and reaches a limit at about 315-320whp due to the turbo on 91 Oct. a DP should free up another 15-25 on the right tune and E85 should give you another bump of 15whp. All of this is queued up for testing in the next couple of weeks. This is also why they have created proprietary software that will allow your ecu to work with better map sensors, which in turn will safely allow more boost.

As it stands now you should be able to hit 315whp/430-440wtq on the stage 1 using ZF 8HP trans. For you to hit 500wtq you would have to replace your ZF8HP with a 8HP70. Don't know if that's ever been done but I think it's possible because it goes in the 750 and should mount a N63tu and even possibly a n55. I say possibly because the clutch from a 550 is supposed to be a plug and play for my trans which holds 500+ft lbs. Who wants to be the first to try that?

[Sedoy]

All great points, thanks. Maybe MissionPerformance can provide more info on hp/tq relationship for F10 N55, because I believe N55 in F30 puts considerably better whp vs. F10. What are the limiting factors .

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

The trade for hp vs tq is a question better suited for MissionPerformance you can dial down the torque if that is a concern, but again MP would be better at explaining this because their approach is maximum power within the safe limits of your car. Not just plain old max power until you knock or worse. The N55 is low in the hp dept and reaches a limit at about 315-320whp due to the turbo on 91 Oct. a DP should free up another 15-25 on the right tune and E85 should give you another bump of 15whp. All of this is queued up for testing in the next couple of weeks. This is also why they have created proprietary software that will allow your ecu to work with better map sensors, which in turn will safely allow more boost.

As it stands now you should be able to hit 315whp/430-440wtq on the stage 1 using ZF 8HP trans. For you to hit 500wtq you would have to replace your ZF8HP with a 8HP70. Don't know if that's ever been done but I think it's possible because it goes in the 750 and should mount a N63tu and even possibly a n55. I say possibly because the clutch from a 550 is supposed to be a plug and play for my trans which holds 500+ft lbs. Who wants to be the first to try that?

[Bmw doubles]

This is true about the 335, same tune on F10 vs. F30 chassis has different power outputs. I don't know the exact facts, but there is suspicion that the same Bosch ecu has different maps, MP also mentioned it could be related to better cooling. They are looking into that mystery and could be the first to break through on that.

[MissionPerformance]

Sedoy and others, let me try and explain the reasons behind F10 getting lower numbers then F30. There are 2 reasons actually. FIrst of all the computers used on the cars. Even tho 2012 F10 and F30 use the same motors, the computers are slightly different. The F10 uses an older, inferior computer that did not get much love from BMW in terms of refinement. Many maps on F10 have high RPM resolution around 6K rpms while leaving huge gap between 2500 and 5k, just like I showed Bmw doubles. And the best part is that you can clearly see the "missing" rpms on the dyno graph around 4K once you start pushing the turbo out of its optimal zone.

Another big difference is intake and location of the filter. First, on F10, the intake filter is located much closer to the block/head and thus causing heat soaking much more early on. Secondary, and this is VERY important, is the design of the intake plumbing. On F30, intake plumbing goes from the intake filter, passes in front of the motor and gets fed directly into the turbo. On F10, the intake plumbing goes from the filter, passes engines on the back of the head, passes over the VERY HOT exhaust manifold/turbo, makes a 80degree turn into a trubo. By the time the "once cold" fresh intake reaches the turbo, its already hot.

All of this was demonstrated on the dyno once we started really pushing the F10. The intake was getting massively heatsoaked causing all sorts of issues.

I quickly looked into comparing F10 vs F30 numbers using "same" tune and it seems as if the gains are only 10hp for F30 chassis. Having such horrible intake location on F10, F30 should have much higher gains once pushed. We will try and get a f30 N55 on a dyno one day soon to see what it can do.

[Sedoy]

^ Great info, thanks for the explanation, I'm glad somebody was looking into that. What about DP outlet size, I believe for 2014+ BMW upgraded F10's DP outlet size from 3.5" to 4.0" that could be a limiting factor as well. I'm wondering what's the DP outlet size for F30.

[FSociety]

Bmw doubles my questions are

#1 DashCommand is not accurate showing those incorrect HP/TQ and also incorrect boost values
#2 I think TorquePro can be adjusted to show more real numbers ( have experimented with both ) I prefer TorquePro accurateness
#3 What was your stock Dyno run boost value and your 435WTQ pull value, and your current one (this info you can prob get from MP)
#4 What was your previous tune boost showing ?

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

Bmw doubles my questions are

#1 DashCommand is not accurate showing those incorrect HP/TQ and also incorrect boost values
#2 I think TorquePro can be adjusted to show more real numbers ( have experimented with both ) I prefer TorquePro accurateness
#3 What was your stock Dyno run boost value and your 435WTQ pull value, and your current one (this info you can prob get from MP)
#4 What was your previous tune boost showing ?

MP, great explanation on the F10 vs F30 same-tune-comparison. The ECU I had heard about and the air makes sense. I've been trying to figure out if I could make a whole new route for the piping. On the left side there's a port where the air comes in. However on the right side there's a dummy cover which possibly could house a new intake scoop and new piping could be added or create a new intake path. Just some thoughts.

Anyway, yes, dash command is not trust worthy. I'll try again with torque pro.
#3would be better answered from MissionPerformance as they have accurate data.
Previous psi on same app DC showed 20psi, but that means nothing when your engine stutters.

[Secret_Asian]

Hi, MP i sent you guys a PM yesterday, when you get a chance please respond. Summer is coming I'm considering sending out the dme for a tune

[MissionPerformance]

Originally Posted by Secret_Asian

Hi, MP i sent you guys a PM yesterday, when you get a chance please respond. Summer is coming I'm considering sending out the dme for a tune

All PMs have been responded, sorry guys for some delay. A lot of emails and PMs to go through while working on a N63tu build for ShiftSector event.