[493263]

Originally Posted by The X Men

My BMW fog light cast a beam about 10 to 15 feet and not much further than that and it is far from useless. If your fog light cast a beam that is 20 feet or further, it is aim too high. If a oncoming car has its HID or fog lights on at the same time, the HID light is by far more distracting than the fog light. BMW turns off the fog light by default because its the law in some European countries, those law should be modify to ban the use of aftermarket fogs and HID and not the factory OEMs. You need to aim your fog lights lower so you don't blind oncoming traffic and cause an accident.

Your BMW fog light cast a beam much longer than 15 ft. It's just that the first 10-15 ft is where it is brightest and register the most to your eyes.

You don't have to keep arguing with me. Just go hold up a large piece of white paper at 15 feet or park 15 ft away from a wall. Disable your low beam and have only your fogs on. Move out to 30 ft and 60 ft. Come back and tell me the results.

You seem to confuse beam distance with angles. Beam distance is the result of vertical height placement and angle.

Originally Posted by The X Men

If a oncoming car has its HID or fog lights on at the same time, the HID light is by far more distracting than the fog light. BMW turns off the fog light by default because its the law in some European countries, those law should be modify to ban the use of aftermarket fogs and HID and not the factory OEMs. You need to aim your fog lights lower so you don't blind oncoming traffic and cause an accident.

You just contradict yourself. Why do you think many countries made fog lights illegal? because it's freaking aimed higher and blind people lol.

Why do you think BMW decides to disable fog by default unless you intentionally turn it on and have to redo it every time you turn the car on? because it blinds people!

HIDs don't usually blind people because their housing is usually really good at concentrating the beam. The problem is usually with poorly aimed HIDs cause it's broken or people with aftermarket kits. Some people just plain switch out their halogen bulb for an HID set up without changing to projector lamps. There's millions of them on the road.

[ezaircon4jc]

Were fog lights aimed high their purpose would be defeated. That's why one shouldn't use high beams in fog; all it does is light up the moisture in the air making it that much harder to see. Fog lights are supposed to be aimed "under" the fog so the road/lane markings are visible. Driving lights are a different animal.....

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Were fog lights aimed high their purpose would be defeated. That's why one shouldn't use high beams in fog; all it does is light up the moisture in the air making it that much harder to see. Fog lights are supposed to be aimed "under" the fog so the road/lane markings are visible. Driving lights are a different animal.....

Thank You ezaircon4jc for agreeing with my point, fog lights are aim low because fog stay low to the ground. There is just no point in debating with some people because they fail to understand how to properly aim fog lights.

[493263]

There is no point in debating with people doesn't know that aim means angle instead of distance. Enjoy your ignorance and continue to piss other drivers off with your fog lights.

[youknowluke]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Thank You ezaircon4jc for agreeing with my point, fog lights are aim low because fog stay low to the ground. There is just no point in debating with some people because they fail to understand how to properly aim fog lights.

Please stop being stupid. I can guarantee you don't put your rear fog on in broad daylight and drive around with it on or at night. Because any policeman sat on your ass would pull you straight over and call you an idiot possibly fine you. Passing police aren't likely to turn around and chase you just for fog lights. If you do it because you want people to see you (I highly doubt) just drive around with your hazard lights on they are for warning people of hazards but fogs are for fog. So if that rule is out the window, then drive around with your hazards on

Its worth noting from an insurance perspective, that if you did dazzle a driver because your being arrogant driving around with your FOG lights on in normal conditions, and they then drift off course and have a head on crash with you or crash into you. And there is any witnesses and/or the driver says I was blinded by his fog lights he had them turned on when it was clear. You can say hello to going to prison for "gross negligence" if you hurt them, hello to big fines, hello to insurance increases. Its really not worth it is it? Hence why its illegal in most countries. They don't just think I know what lets make fog lights illegal in anything but the fog because we don't want people looking cool

Lets face it you wouldn't have this argument in court the judge would laugh in your face.

Read this:
http://goo.gl/8jK7Hf

I've also listed a good photo of a big fog light I saw

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by 493263

There is no point in debating with people doesn't know that aim means angle instead of distance. Enjoy your ignorance and continue to piss other drivers off with your fog lights.

Really, is that what aim means? Next thing you going to do is tell me how to turn on my headlights You sound like a broken record. Fog lights are suppose to be aim low. You admit to aiming your fog lights high, that why you are blinding other drivers. I am surprise the police hasn't pull you over yet. I drive with fog lights on sometimes and have never gotten a high beam flash from other drivers. It is the aftermarket lighting that is aim incorrectly that cause problem for other driver.

[youknowluke]

Great website thumbs up

http://www.fogsoff.com/

[The X Men]

youknowluke, no need to call me stupid and an idiot. Let try to keep this debate civilize. I can assure you that the aftermarket HID bulb you are about to put into your car will be more blinding than another OEM fog lights. We do not have rear fog lights here in the US, if front fog lights are meant for fog only, it would be yellow or orange, not LED.
I think what we have here is a case of cultural difference. Police here would not give a damn if you drive around with your fog lights on. Again, if fog lights are aim properly, it does not blind people. However, in the US, there is a law against what you are doing, which is retrofitting an after HID bulb into a car that is not design for it.

[youknowluke]

Originally Posted by The X Men

youknowluke, no need to call me stupid and an idiot. Let try to keep this debate civilize. I can assure you that the aftermarket HID bulb you are about to put into your car will be more blinding than another OEM fog lights. We do not have rear fog lights here in the US, if front fog lights are meant for fog only, it would be yellow or orange, not LED.
I think what we have here is a case of cultural difference. Police here would not give a damn if you drive around with your fog lights on. Again, if fog lights are aim properly, it does not blind people. However, in the US, there is a law against what you are doing, which is retrofitting an after HID bulb into a car that is not design for it.

I've just looked at at this explains the whole thing. US lighting laws and regulations mean that your headlight beam pattern, fog lights everything is different to Europe, you also have yellow parking lights. I never understood there use when driving in america perhaps you can tell me as I saw people driving around with them on during the day occasionally?

If you look at the attached photo I think this is for headlights but if its like this for headlights its likely to be the same for fog lights. Here in the UK I've never seen LED fog lights, apart from some cars like Volvos have and LED style DRL which is low down like a fog light. Here in the UK we just have a round reflector with a H7 50w halogen bulb in it, there is no beam aim or anything the beam is just dispersed in all directions hence it can dazzle you. I've just been to the gym and gone past 2 tw*** driving with HID kits installed in reflector housing with HID fogs on!!! I nearly smashed into them to teach them a lesson.

As for me putting HID kit in projectors, the projectors for halogen have a narrower beam than HID because the beam isn't as strong for halogen so can't cover as much ground (less lumens) Also headlight washers seriously I had them on my Audi A4 and they were useless, better than nothing but I always am cleaning my headlamps for optimum visibility. I have electronically variable dampers option with rear wheel steer on my car, this actually incorporates ECASS technology which is in simple terms, auto levelling suspension. So in actual fact because of my narrower beam and the same cut off. Ill just be as likely to blind anybody as someone with BMW Bi-Xenon headlamps. Its worth mentioning that the adaptive sus & rear wheel steer was not standard on the F10. But the box got ticked on mine. Its also worth saying that with all the idiots on the roads with fog lights on all the time, stupid HID retrofits into reflectors etc I couldn't care less about my HID kit.

FYI by the way, I don't even use my fogs. Only in very very poor visibility would I switch on both front and rear fog lights. Its a once a year switched on light.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by youknowluke

I've just looked at at this explains the whole thing. US lighting laws and regulations mean that your headlight beam pattern, fog lights everything is different to Europe, you also have yellow parking lights. I never understood there use when driving in america perhaps you can tell me as I saw people driving around with them on during the day occasionally?

If you look at the attached photo I think this is for headlights but if its like this for headlights its likely to be the same for fog lights. Here in the UK I've never seen LED fog lights, apart from some cars like Volvos have and LED style DRL which is low down like a fog light. Here in the UK we just have a round reflector with a H7 50w halogen bulb in it, there is no beam aim or anything the beam is just dispersed in all directions hence it can dazzle you. I've just been to the gym and gone past 2 tw*** driving with HID kits installed in reflector housing with HID fogs on!!! I nearly smashed into them to teach them a lesson.

As for me putting HID kit in projectors, the projectors for halogen have a narrower beam than HID because the beam isn't as strong for halogen so can't cover as much ground (less lumens) Also headlight washers seriously I had them on my Audi A4 and they were useless, better than nothing but I always am cleaning my headlamps for optimum visibility. I have electronically variable dampers option with rear wheel steer on my car, this actually incorporates ECASS technology which is in simple terms, auto levelling suspension. So in actual fact because of my narrower beam and the same cut off. Ill just be as likely to blind anybody as someone with BMW Bi-Xenon headlamps. Its worth mentioning that the adaptive sus & rear wheel steer was not standard on the F10. But the box got ticked on mine. Its also worth saying that with all the idiots on the roads with fog lights on all the time, stupid HID retrofits into reflectors etc I couldn't care less about my HID kit.

FYI by the way, I don't even use my fogs. Only in very very poor visibility would I switch on both front and rear fog lights. Its a once a year switched on light.

If you look at this website, in the US, its actually called fog/driving light, not just for fog.

http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/nx-200t...eatures-specs/

All the US version of the LCI F10 comes with LED fog lights, are they still halogen in the UK? Amber parking light in the US are use for live parking and function as corner markers, I usually use the hazard light in that situation instead.
Fog light pattern should be different from low beam pattern, fog lights are not use to light up road signs, BTW, US HID beam patterns is not flat across the top, it is higher on the right side of the projector. Again, if fog lights are properly aim, they will not blind oncoming traffic as much as HID low beams. Like your said, it is the aftermarket installers with their aftermarket HID kids in the fog light housing that is the problem. That's why I think some of these European lighting laws are outdated, they should really target the aftermarket abuser like the US lighting laws. In the US, there is also an annual safety inspection that check for improperly aim headlights.
I had HIDs in halogen projector before, the beam is not as wide and not as strong as a HID projector, you are better off looking for a HID projector conversion.
I use my fog quite a bit when I am driving on dark country road and I never had a problem with other cars that also have their fogs on, its the aftermarket installs that blinds me sometimes.

[youknowluke]

Originally Posted by The X Men

If you look at this website, in the US, its actually called fog/driving light, not just for fog.

http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/nx-200t...eatures-specs/

All the US version of the LCI F10 comes with LED fog lights, are they still halogen in the UK? Amber parking light in the US are use for live parking and function as corner markers, I usually use the hazard light in that situation instead.
Fog light pattern should be different from low beam pattern, fog lights are not use to light up road signs, BTW, US HID beam patterns is not flat across the top, it is higher on the right side of the projector. Again, if fog lights are properly aim, they will not blind oncoming traffic as much as HID low beams. Like your said, it is the aftermarket installers with their aftermarket HID kids in the fog light housing that is the problem. That's why I think some of these European lighting laws are outdated, they should really target the aftermarket abuser like the US lighting laws. In the US, there is also an annual safety inspection that check for improperly aim headlights.
I had HIDs in halogen projector before, the beam is not as wide and not as strong as a HID projector, you are better off looking for a HID projector conversion.
I use my fog quite a bit when I am driving on dark country road and I never had a problem with other cars that also have their fogs on, its the aftermarket installs that blinds me sometimes.

That's fair enough, I've never seen a car with LED fog lights here in the UK never. They're all Halogen on all the cars apart from some cars that have DRL and no fogs, and the DRLs are in the fog lights place. Front fogs are optional but standard on most cars here. Rear fog lights are on every car, I've had cars with no front fogs, but have rear fogs. The fogs in the US must be a lower wattage than here in the UK hence them called fogs/daytime lights. Here in the UK its just a 55w or 35w H7 headlight bulb in a round reflector with no reflector piece in front like a low beam, so its beam can be adjusted or dissipated evenly. Meaning the beam just shines really bright in all directions and dazzles road users. Hence the law and the pet hate. Its good in fog because the beam is really bright so you can see oncoming people in fog.

LEDs in fog lights is just a joke, its common sense that fog is white, so are LEDs so they'll just blend in together. My halogen fogs really helped me when I had Bi-Xenon lights in my old Passat in fog as the Bi-Xenons were worse than Halogens because of the colour.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by youknowluke

That's fair enough, I've never seen a car with LED fog lights here in the UK never. They're all Halogen on all the cars apart from some cars that have DRL and no fogs, and the DRLs are in the fog lights place. Front fogs are optional but standard on most cars here. Rear fog lights are on every car, I've had cars with no front fogs, but have rear fogs. The fogs in the US must be a lower wattage than here in the UK hence them called fogs/daytime lights. Here in the UK its just a 55w or 35w H7 headlight bulb in a round reflector with no reflector piece in front like a low beam, so its beam can be adjusted or dissipated evenly. Meaning the beam just shines really bright in all directions and dazzles road users. Hence the law and the pet hate. Its good in fog because the beam is really bright so you can see oncoming people in fog.

LEDs in fog lights is just a joke, its common sense that fog is white, so are LEDs so they'll just blend in together. My halogen fogs really helped me when I had Bi-Xenon lights in my old Passat in fog as the Bi-Xenons were worse than Halogens because of the colour.

The only car I had that has rear fogs were my 2012 A6, but I don't think I have ever use them before except for pissing people off when they tailgate me.
The pre-LCI F10 use H7 for fog and MSport use H11, they are aim so low that the beam doesn't go above the knee. I wonder if the European models are aim differently. LED fog lights function more like a driving light, they are useless in fog.

[493263]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Really, is that what aim means? Next thing you going to do is tell me how to turn on my headlights You sound like a broken record. Fog lights are suppose to be aim low. You admit to aiming your fog lights high, that why you are blinding other drivers. I am surprise the police hasn't pull you over yet. I drive with fog lights on sometimes and have never gotten a high beam flash from other drivers. It is the aftermarket lighting that is aim incorrectly that cause problem for other driver.

Are you that desperate to start putting words in my mouth? I never change my OEM lights. I wouldn't recommend anyone else to do it. So no, I don't aim my fogs, it's factory. It's within regs. Nice try but you're still ignorant. Like I said, more and more places are making fog lights illegal for a reason. It's not for giggles.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by 493263

Are you that desperate to start putting words in my mouth? I never change my OEM lights. I wouldn't recommend anyone else to do it. So no, I don't aim my fogs, it's factory. It's within regs. Nice try but you're still ignorant. Like I said, more and more places are making fog lights illegal for a reason. It's not for giggles.

Although you have managed to put your foot in your mouth a few times, I have never put words in your mouth, you said your fog lights can cast a beam very far, if that's the case, its aim too high.
Where did I say you change your OEM light?
Fog lights are not illegal in the US, if you get blinded by oem foglights that are aim properly, you must have real sensitive eyes or other medical problems.

[youknowluke]

Originally Posted by The X Men

The only car I had that has rear fogs were my 2012 A6, but I don't think I have ever use them before except for pissing people off when they tailgate me.
The pre-LCI F10 use H7 for fog and MSport use H11, they are aim so low that the beam doesn't go above the knee. I wonder if the European models are aim differently. LED fog lights function more like a driving light, they are useless in fog.

Here we go to round this up. This is my F10, I've took photos with the fogs on and off. With the fogs on you can clearly see the light of the beam scattered all over the place above the car to the sides and below this is why its dangerous.

If you look at the scatter its a circle nearly exactly like the circle housing it sits in. Just to say the fog lights are as bright as the low beam headlights ! and are not aimed at the ground just closer to the ground but as you can see I'm standing and I'm 6ft 3 and the beam is still catching the camera from all angles. I stood on the side of the passing traffic aswell and you can see when the fogs are on it stretches across the road into oncoming traffic this is so in the fog we can see oncoming traffic. Having these on in the day here in the UK is dangerous and illegal full stop. Driving with fogs on in the day doesn't really matter because your eyes are adjusted to the brighter surroundings but at night it dazzles you as your eyes aren't. Driving with your fogs on is probably like driving with your full beams on for you americans and you wouldn't do that would you!!

My fogs have never been tampered with and still have the original bulbs and trust me you don't have sensitive eyes just look at the photos the proof is there you can see the beam scatter all around the car it looks like a lighting disaster.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by youknowluke

Here we go to round this up. This is my F10, I've took photos with the fogs on and off. With the fogs on you can clearly see the light of the beam scattered all over the place above the car to the sides and below this is why its dangerous.

If you look at the scatter its a circle nearly exactly like the circle housing it sits in. Just to say the fog lights are as bright as the low beam headlights ! and are not aimed at the ground just closer to the ground but as you can see I'm standing and I'm 6ft 3 and the beam is still catching the camera from all angles. I stood on the side of the passing traffic aswell and you can see when the fogs are on it stretches across the road into oncoming traffic this is so in the fog we can see oncoming traffic. Having these on in the day here in the UK is dangerous and illegal full stop. Driving with fogs on in the day doesn't really matter because your eyes are adjusted to the brighter surroundings but at night it dazzles you as your eyes aren't. Driving with your fogs on is probably like driving with your full beams on for you americans and you wouldn't do that would you!!

My fogs have never been tampered with and still have the original bulbs and trust me you don't have sensitive eyes just look at the photos the proof is there you can see the beam scatter all around the car it looks like a lighting disaster.

Night pictures of bright lights always amplify the light source to the point of distortion, in other words, night pictures of light source are pretty useless as far as how many a light source glares. Look at a day time shot of the picture below, there are some slight glare from the HID but the LED fogs have no glare at all.

[youknowluke]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Night pictures of bright lights always amplify the light source to the point of distortion, in other words, night pictures of light source are pretty useless as far as how many a light source glares. Look at a day time shot of the picture below, there are some slight glare from the HID but the LED fogs have no glare at all.

Night photos are useless?????? Driving at night is what we are talking about ? Some photos of your LED fogs on at night would be handy. I'm not bothered about people driving around with them on in the day. Your eyes are adjusted to the light surroundings so fog lights don't dazzle you when they're on in the day. Its at night. I must say those fog lights look so so dim. I think mine are three times as bright as that during the day and there halogen!

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by The X Men

........ In the US, there is also an annual safety inspection that check for improperly aim headlights.......

Not all states have inspections. In The People's Republik all they care about is a smog check.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by youknowluke

Night photos are useless?????? Driving at night is what we are talking about ? Some photos of your LED fogs on at night would be handy. I'm not bothered about people driving around with them on in the day. Your eyes are adjusted to the light surroundings so fog lights don't dazzle you when they're on in the day. Its at night. I must say those fog lights look so so dim. I think mine are three times as bright as that during the day and there halogen!

Cell phone cameras and low end cameras have a very big aperture and let in a large amount of light, night shots will tend to show light source much brighter than they really are.
My LED fog lights are actual brighter than my old halogen fog lights and yet, they are less glaring due to their design.
Fog lights now a days is more of a name sake, they should really be call driving lights as they do not function well in fog. I don't think I have ever been blinded by oem fog lights before, its the aftermarket HID kits in fog housing that I have a problem with. If I am driving on a dark road, I use my driving lights and so do other drivers. If these driving lights are unsafe, BMW would have never put them in their cars. If these lights were only intended to be use foggy conditions, BMW would have never use LED lights due to its poor performance in fog.

[493263]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Cell phone cameras and low end cameras have a very big aperture and let in a large amount of light, night shots will tend to show light source much brighter than they really are.

I don't think you understand how aperture works. Cell phone cameras and low end cameras actually bump ISO and a heavy dose of NR and post processing.

Originally Posted by The X Men

...If these lights were only intended to be use foggy conditions, BMW would have never use LED lights due to its poor performance in fog.

LOL this is just your opinion. Why are LED fog lights not as good as halogen? if anything, they are better by consuming less energy, giving off more light, and doesn't break as often since LEDs are practically immune to vibrations compared to halogen.

I don't know why you keep arguing this. youknowluke even went out of his way taking a picture to show you fogs are a distraction to other drivers. If you still don't believe other people, then why don't you just stand 100 feet away from your car at night and tell me which lights are more distracting. It will the the fog lights because it's aimed higher lol. That is unless you have HID headlights and weak halogen fogs.

[The X Men]

493263, obviously, you do not have a good understanding of light patterns. A properly design fog light has a wide beam pattern (70 degrees to 120 degrees) with a sharp, flat cutoff on top. The beam should never go above 2 or 3 feet or so. I just do not see how you can get blinded by a beam that is properly aimed.

[493263]

Originally Posted by The X Men

493263, obviously, you do not have a good understanding of light patterns. A properly design fog light has a wide beam pattern (70 degrees to 120 degrees) with a sharp, flat cutoff on top. The beam should never go above 2 or 3 feet or so. I just do not see how you can get blinded by a beam that is properly aimed.

Because you're too dumb to realize the following:

1. Most roads are not perfectly flat. Fog lights are aimed only a few degrees lower than the horizontal line. That means the slightest bump/curve/etc.. in the road will blind other drivers. Low beams are aimed at a much lower angle making that chance lower.
2. Fog lights are not lasers, the beam spread over the distance. It doesn't have to be aimed directly at someone's eyes to blind them.
3. Fog light housing are not deep enough to keep the the vast majority of light(the beam) concentrated to a certain angle and direction. Hence why even if you had a cutoff, the light will still bleed past that.


You can't see why you can get blinded by a fog light? Did you bother to even look at the pictures above or are you just spamming the forum? Why are more places making fog lights illegal for normal use?

I keep asking you the same questions and laying out the same facts explaining it many different ways to help you understand. But I understand now that you would rather be a self absorbed bigot. At this point, I don't think there's anymore anyone can do. You're just going to drive like an idiot with your fogs on thinking it won't blind other drivers.