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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications N63 intake fabrication
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      02-11-2015, 02:48 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Sum1. View Post
Likely I'll buy the Dinan kit as 1) it's the only one available and 2) really want to know what gains it will produce.

edit: Ordered it. Told they're in production and will ship in a few weeks.
Can you get a sound video of the intakes? Any performance gain?
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      02-11-2015, 07:32 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Zer0Cool92 View Post
Can you get a sound video of the intakes? Any performance gain?
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      02-11-2015, 09:00 PM   #113
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I'm trying to hear the Dinan intakes the other dude just ordered, pal.
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      02-11-2015, 09:22 PM   #114
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I'm trying to hear the Dinan intakes the other dude just ordered, pal.
no sound just looks my buddy had them
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      11-11-2015, 05:14 PM   #115
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badblack550xi I need to know if we can proceed with this order asap. I need to look into other options if not. Please email me at natecbarrett@gmail.com
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      11-11-2015, 06:50 PM   #116
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badblack550xi I need to know if we can proceed with this order asap. I need to look into other options if not. Please email me at natecbarrett@gmail.com
i have stayed in communication with you in PM for the past 2 days, sending me the same message 4 times in a row just floods my inbox.
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      11-13-2015, 10:58 AM   #117
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Hey guys i had to close my store for a few days, shopify decided to get smart with me and not release any orders of intakes. Making many who ordered frustrated with delays.
i will have a new website done with in few days.
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      12-08-2015, 12:26 PM   #118
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Any update on my order please
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      06-02-2016, 09:23 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by gclions View Post
Guys,

Here is some interesting information for comparison before and after. I took my temperature data from my run on 7/1/14 (stock intakes) and compared it to my data runs 7/5/14 (modified intakes).

Long story short, the intake air temperature is indeed higher, which should surprise no one. What was surprising was the charge air temperature was much lower at the same point on the curves, around 20F cooler! So, I haven't given up on this one yet, it appears that this intake will be similar to Terry's intake on the N54, where it sucks hotter air but still makes power.

I built support brackets for the filters this morning, and my next order of business is to get some heat shield material to try and balance temps under the hood. There is a wide delta between each side of the engine compartment, with the passenger side running WAY hotter. Looking at the curves, the 1's are passenger side and the 2's are driver side.

Here is the first graph, stock intakes:
- 10:00 pm
- 81F outside temperature
- 68% humidity

Attachment 1054022

Now here is the second graph, modified intakes:
- 10:00 am
- 75F outside temperature
- 45% humidity

Attachment 1054021
What was used to collect this data.

-R
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      06-03-2016, 06:00 AM   #120
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Data logged via my Bavarian Technic cable, put the data into Excel and plotted it into a useable graph.
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      06-03-2016, 06:36 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by gclions View Post
Data logged via my Bavarian Technic cable, put the data into Excel and plotted it into a useable graph.
Do you know what hz it operates at?
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      06-03-2016, 06:42 AM   #122
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Frequency of my data points? Not sure I have those files still. You can select the sampling rate using the software, and my guess is it was somewhere in the middle, at 2-3 points per second. My laptop tends to bog down when you crank it up.
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      12-11-2016, 08:57 AM   #123
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*EDIT*
I read this and realized how rude it may come off. I should preface by saying how good and diligent the work by gclions has been thus far.
*EDIT*

I recently picked up a a 2011 X5 with the n63 motor. I was hoping to reboot this to some degree.

For me the requirements are fairly simple, reorganize the intake such that the air subjected to the intake is least susceptible to heat in the engine bay and that the intake path is least restricted as possible. Being that it is a turbo, optimizing an acoustical cavity is not necessary.

It looks like the intake tubes for the the F85 X5M might solve the problem of having a restricted and improper orientation on the N63. As far as I can tell it looks like they might fit and bolt up, granted I am just looking at pictures. It looks like a custom rubber gasket maybe required as the diameter of the cylindrical orifice on the turbos mating to the intake tubes are slightly different between the S and N turbos.

These two pieces collectively are ~$200.

If these fit up without any spatial issues in the engine bay, then I suspect the next problem becomes an arts and crafts one. The problem as I see it, is making the odd geometry tubing from the F85 X5M intake tubes to the air filters that would be where the current intake starts in front of the radiator.

For proof of concept, I think I can use water activated fiberglass rolls, much like what is used to make a cast in medicine. I am looking for some advice on what to use to make the molds in which I would wrap around the fiberglass. Something that is pliable. This allows mistakes and can be gutted out once the fiberglass cures. The first thing that came to mind was high density foam, but once I cut, I can't go back. I don't think I have the skills to pull this off. Hence the driving force for something pliable.

I don't think this is a complicated problem, it is just difficult to work with complicated geometries without having a access to injection molding machines, etc. The X5M has the same setup with a reasonable intake. Perhaps we can overcome this with some good fiberglass work or something until a POC exists? Worst case scenario I will 3d print an interface to the turbo inlet and go from there.

Chris

Last edited by borderm3; 12-11-2016 at 07:21 PM..
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      12-11-2016, 01:54 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borderm3 View Post
I recently picked up a a 2011 X5 with the n63 motor. I was hoping to reboot this to some degree.

For me the requirements are fairly simple, reorganize the intake such that the air subjected to the intake is least susceptible to heat in the engine bay and that the intake path is least restricted as possible. Being that it is a turbo, optimizing an acoustical cavity is not necessary.

It looks like the intake tubes for the the F85 X5M might solve the problem of having a restricted and improper orientation on the N63. As far as I can tell it looks like they might fit and bolt up, granted I am just looking at pictures. It looks like a custom rubber gasket maybe required as the diameter of the cylindrical orifice on the turbos mating to the intake tubes are slightly different between the S and N turbos.

These two pieces collectively are ~$200.

If these fit up without any spatial issues in the engine bay, then I suspect the next problem becomes an arts and crafts one. The problem as I see it, is making the odd geometry tubing from the F85 X5M intake tubes to the air filters that would be where the current intake starts in front of the radiator.

For proof of concept, I think I can use water activated fiberglass rolls, much like what is used to make a cast in medicine. I am looking for some advice on what to use to make the molds in which I would wrap around the fiberglass. Something that is pliable. This allows mistakes and can be gutted out once the fiberglass cures. The first thing that came to mind was high density foam, but once I cut, I can't go back. I don't think I have the skills to pull this off. Hence the driving force for something pliable.

I don't think this is a complicated problem, it is just difficult to work with complicated geometries without having a access to injection molding machines, etc. The X5M has the same setup with a reasonable intake. Perhaps we can overcome this with some good fiberglass work or something until a POC exists? Worst case scenario I will 3d print an interface to the turbo inlet and go from there.

Chris
There's a lot more to it than this -- the pre-turbo intake system has our MAF installed. Any modifications you make to the location or size of tube that houses this MAF can cause negative performance due to the preprogrammed MAF characteristics.
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      12-11-2016, 07:18 PM   #125
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Are you certain of this, if so can you please elaborate?

This was a consideration when I first looked at the system. I know very little about this, but from a few minutes of research I gathered the hot film system is conservative with respect to temperature and velocity. Thus the change in temperature is still proportional to the rate of mass entering the engine.

e.g. The amount temperature decreases on the hot wire as a result of the increase in velocity results in the correct change in mass/time.

I know nothing about how sensitive this is. If this is a problem it will be very easy to tell on the first data log.

Another option is to attempt adjust the geometry of the system such that it yields the same conditions that are at the stock HFM. If this can't be done, take data from the new setup and the old setup, curve fit, figure out a function that normalizes the new setup to the old and use that to program some electronics between the hfm and ecu.

I am just spit balling 100%, It will require experimentation, but I still see no reason why it is a real problem. It is just a question of motivation.

I hope I don't come off argumentative. I'm sure you can tell, I am the kind of person that want's to know why. Many times things aren't done because people don't understand the system and assume it can't be done. After all, I am posting here to see if there is still any interest in this project. If there isn't, I will go radio silent and just work myself. I am very motivated to play around and develop a path forward to aftermarket upgrades on this platform.

Chris
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      12-11-2016, 07:26 PM   #126
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Chris,

Are you pursuing a radically different design than Badblack550xi or the RK Autowerks has in development?

BTW, I applaud your sticktuitiveness and tenacity going after a solution.
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      12-11-2016, 07:34 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borderm3 View Post
Are you certain of this, if so can you please elaborate?

This was a consideration when I first looked at the system. I know very little about this, but from a few minutes of research I gathered the hot film system is conservative with respect to temperature and velocity. Thus the change in temperature is still proportional to the rate of mass entering the engine.

e.g. The amount temperature decreases on the hot wire as a result of the increase in velocity results in the correct change in mass/time.

I know nothing about how sensitive this is. If this is a problem it will be very easy to tell on the first data log.

Another option is to attempt adjust the geometry of the system such that it yields the same conditions that are at the stock HFM. If this can't be done, take data from the new setup and the old setup, curve fit, figure out a function that normalizes the new setup to the old and use that to program some electronics between the hfm and ecu.

I am just spit balling 100%, It will require experimentation, but I still see no reason why it is a real problem. It is just a question of motivation.

I hope I don't come off argumentative. I'm sure you can tell, I am the kind of person that want's to know why. Many times things aren't done because people don't understand the system and assume it can't be done. After all, I am posting here to see if there is still any interest in this project. If there isn't, I will go radio silent and just work myself. I am very motivated to play around and develop a path forward to aftermarket upgrades on this platform.

Chris
No worries, not at all.

As you change the size of the pipe that the MAF sits in, you are affecting the speed of the air flowing through the pipe. For example, a larger pipe diameter would decrease the speed of the air across the MAF sensor. The DME takes the reading from the MAF and then uses the predetermined characteristics of the pipe it sits in to build it's load parameters.

To be completely honest, I doubt anyone here will be able to tell you exactly what affect changing this would have. Our DME is obviously very complex with 2 MAF sensors and 4 MAP sensors, so unless you worked on the code I doubt you could give a definitive answer on the specifics.

But the one thing we can be sure about is that changing the diameter of the housing that the MAF sits in will generate a signal that the DME is not expecting in relation to the actual air entering the engine. That's also why I mentioned the placement of the MAF as well, I'm sure with the complexity of our DMEs the location of the MAF will also play into this as well. If you could keep the distance from the turbo and diameter the same, the DME would be most "happy" as you could make it with a custom intake setup.
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      12-11-2016, 07:50 PM   #128
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Thanks Matt. We are on the same page. I will keep this in consideration if things do not seem right when testing.
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      12-11-2016, 07:57 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu550 View Post
Chris,

Are you pursuing a radically different design than Badblack550xi or the RK Autowerks has in development?

BTW, I applaud your sticktuitiveness and tenacity going after a solution.
I am so incredibly noob here, I came across this when I searched google, that is why I posted here. I will search and see what they are doing.

I worked for many years in Pro racing and had my own tuner shop. I wised up went back to school and since have worked as Scientist/Engineer. The idea was to be make enough money to own these funs things I was playing with. Clearly it hasn't totally worked yet, or I would has an s63 and this wouldn't be an issue. Of course, then where is the fun!? This is just a project for fun, no intention to make money. I couldn't find a system that I was happy with for a reasonable price. I can't stomach paying 1k or more for this. Call me a cheap a$$.
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      12-11-2016, 08:02 PM   #130
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I just bought a website to make a wiki for aftermarket development of the n63, n63dev.com (Disclaimer it is not for profit and not intended to be competition for 5post), I am going to download a open source wiki engine and put it up.

There are a few things I have came across already that may be cross platform upgrades, it would be nice to put them on the wiki and have people edit and confirm/deny fitment/etc. For example it looks like the diverter valves in the mini cooper and/or vag cars may fit the N63 with different electrical connection. There are already upgraded versions of these to handle high boost for half the price of stock N63 replacements. I, at some point, will benchtest one and determine if it is operates identical to the N63 and document the results in detail on the wiki.
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      12-13-2016, 10:37 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borderm3 View Post
I just bought a website to make a wiki for aftermarket development of the n63, n63dev.com (Disclaimer it is not for profit and not intended to be competition for 5post), I am going to download a open source wiki engine and put it up.

There are a few things I have came across already that may be cross platform upgrades, it would be nice to put them on the wiki and have people edit and confirm/deny fitment/etc. For example it looks like the diverter valves in the mini cooper and/or vag cars may fit the N63 with different electrical connection. There are already upgraded versions of these to handle high boost for half the price of stock N63 replacements. I, at some point, will benchtest one and determine if it is operates identical to the N63 and document the results in detail on the wiki.
Great idea! Thanks for taking the initiative to develop a place specifically for the N63.
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      01-12-2017, 09:49 PM   #132
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