[BMWMilan]

Let me preface my post by saying that I am a die-hard Bimmer fan. Loved the cars, and started off with an E46 M3 and currently drive a F12 650i, so I'm not trolling or here to stir up shit.

But I want to know if anyone here has driven the CTS-V? I just did over the weekend and I must that is one helluva car - it's what a BMW 5er should drive like, but not anymore.

Its balanced, has good steering feedback, is quick off the line and has a nice torquey engine with very good brakes. If anyone has driven the C6 Vette it handles almost as well as that car. The interior is better but still not as well appointed or luxurious as the current BMW layout, and the NAV is awkward (or maybe I'm just used to the iDrive) but whatever. At the end of the day it was just a great driver's car.

Which left me wondering. Why can't the 5er or the current 6er drive like that? My girlfriend has a F10 550i and while lovely for picking up groceries or running errands that thing drives like a car that's ponderous and about 2 sizes bigger than it actually is, and my 650 drives like a boat.

It just makes me sad when I see a Cadillac (of all brands) making cars that put ours to shame.

It's ironic. BMW now makes Cadillacs that your father drove and Cadillac now makes BMWs that your father wanted to drive when he owned the Caddy.

[combatbmw]

Theres a huge huge argument on bimmerfest about this.

They made a good car, but its still a cady. Cadys have a history of being a grandpa car.

Why buy a rolex if you can get a 200 dollar citizen that works just fine?

People drive BMWs for the name and everything else that comes with it.

I would personally never buy a Cady.. Just not my taste. I have driven one and they are impressive, but the dash and surrouding areas are plasticy.

Again, my opinion.

But when you reffer to handling are you talking about the regular 550i? or the M sport. I know the M-Sport has better suspension.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by ipsedixit

Let me preface my post by saying that I am a die-hard Bimmer fan. Loved the cars, and started off with an E46 M3 and currently drive a F12 650i, so I'm not trolling or here to stir up shit.

But I want to know if anyone here has driven the CTS-V? I just did over the weekend and I must that is one helluva car - it's what a BMW 5er should drive like, but not anymore.

Its balanced, has good steering feedback, is quick off the line and has a nice torquey engine with very good brakes. If anyone has driven the C6 Vette it handles almost as well as that car. The interior is better but still not as well appointed or luxurious as the current BMW layout, and the NAV is awkward (or maybe I'm just used to the iDrive) but whatever. At the end of the day it was just a great driver's car.

Which left me wondering. Why can't the 5er or the current 6er drive like that? My girlfriend has a F10 550i and while lovely for picking up groceries or running errands that thing drives like a car that's ponderous and about 2 sizes bigger than it actually is, and my 650 drives like a boat.

It just makes me sad when I see a Cadillac (of all brands) making cars that put ours to shame.

It's ironic. BMW now makes Cadillacs that your father drove and Cadillac now makes BMWs that your father wanted to drive when he owned the Caddy.

[The X Men]

The CTS is the motor trend car of the year, its one heck of a drivers car like you said. Cadillac and BMW are two companies that are going in opposite direction, BMW is designing their car more for comfort and Cadillac for performance. I am sure BMW can design a car just like the CTS, but why would they want to? BMW sold 337,929 units of 5 series worldwide in 2012, Cadillac sold 51,674 CTS. Its pretty clear which car the demographic wants.

[Dan1416]

Comparing a CTS-V and a non M F10 isn't really a fair fight in my eyes. That's just me though

[1HOT BMR]

I considered the CTS-V with the 6.2L engine back in 2011 when I bought my 550i. I wanted a powerful sedan with a manual transmission and both met the requirement.

My impressions: the CTS-V was a BLAST to drive and I almost bought one. Like you I thought the interior was plasticky and it just looked cheaper all around. Now, the 550i comes in different flavors and I ordered mine with Adaptive Drive - other names were used but it has the electronic/hydraulic control of shocks and sway bars and it is included in the M Sport Package, 6 speed manual and rear wheel steering (IAS). IMO . . . the handling of my 550i with this configuration is just spectacular. It is a big car and it does feel heavy but I can take corners and freeway ramps at 2+ times the posted speed limits with no drama, at all. Flat cornering at all times, smooth ride and precise and perfectly weighted steering feel - those who have criticized the steering obviously have not driven a car equipped like mine.

I suppose you are now referring to the new CTS-V with the smaller engine which I have not driven. I can't imagine this new one being more fun to drive than the old one . . . I've got to get out there and drive one

[BMWMilan]

Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR

I considered the CTS-V with the 6.2L engine back in 2011 when I bought my 550i. I wanted a powerful sedan with a manual transmission and both met the requirement.

My impressions: the CTS-V was a BLAST to drive and I almost bought one. Like you I thought the interior was plasticky and it just looked cheaper all around. Now, the 550i comes in different flavors and I ordered mine with Adaptive Drive - other names were used but it has the electronic/hydraulic control of shocks and sway bars and it is included in the M Sport Package, 6 speed manual and rear wheel steering (IAS). IMO . . . the handling of my 550i with this configuration is just spectacular. It is a big car and it does feel heavy but I can take corners and freeway ramps at 2+ times the posted speed limits with no drama, at all. Flat cornering at all times, smooth ride and precise and perfectly weighted steering feel - those who have criticized the steering obviously have not driven a car equipped like mine.

I suppose you are now referring to the new CTS-V with the smaller engine which I have not driven. I can't imagine this new one being more fun to drive than the old one . . . I've got to get out there and drive one

Yes, the brand-spanking new one with S/C V8 stolen from the ZR1.

Try it, it's mind-blowing.

It makes me sad to wonder why BMW isn't making a car like this. More importantly, I want to know why.

I want the BMW that I fell in love with back.

[BlackMonster]

It doesn't bother me that car of the year is a CTS. It's a brand new car, first year in production. In comparison, this is 5th year of BMW F10. (LCI is mostly cosmetic changes) .
I am sure BMW and MB will set the bar again in 2017. You will see, by then, this CTS will not even be invited to comparison tests. It's in the name, Motor TREND. However I give kudos to caddy, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, Jaguar etc. They are catching up fast and furious.

[BMWMilan]

Originally Posted by Dan1416

Comparing a CTS-V and a non M F10 isn't really a fair fight in my eyes. That's just me though

Ok, but if you compare the M5 to the CTS-V there's something like approx. 30k price differential, and having driven the F10 M5 extensively (without the new Comp. Pkg), the sad truth is that the CTS-V is still a better driver's car.

[BMWMilan]

Originally Posted by The X Men

The CTS is the motor trend car of the year, its one heck of a drivers car like you said. Cadillac and BMW are two companies that are going in opposite direction, BMW is designing their car more for comfort and Cadillac for performance. I am sure BMW can design a car just like the CTS, but why would they want to? BMW sold 337,929 units of 5 series worldwide in 2012, Cadillac sold 51,674 CTS. Its pretty clear which car the demographic wants.

Yeah, I hear you.

I am just sad that the BMW that I once knew and fell in love with is no more.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by The X Men

The CTS is the motor trend car of the year, its one heck of a drivers car like you said. Cadillac and BMW are two companies that are going in opposite direction, BMW is designing their car more for comfort and Cadillac for performance. I am sure BMW can design a car just like the CTS, but why would they want to? BMW sold 337,929 units of 5 series worldwide in 2012, Cadillac sold 51,674 CTS. Its pretty clear which car the demographic wants.

I totally agree with what you have written. BMW is a master at engineering cars but they are also masters at understanding what their customers want. So while the car magazines and the enthusiasts pan the F10, the current generation is the best selling 5 series of all time. To me that means BMW has hit its target, which isn't to make cars just for enthusiasts but for a wider age demographic and type of driver. That keeps them in the car game, competing against Benz and others.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the handling and drive if my 1999 540iA but I also appreciate the extra features and comfort of the current F10.

[Cairo Kid]

I have a 2008 CTS AWD that has given me almost six years of trouble free service and, although it was only the 3.6 L 6 cylinder, was great fun to drive. Nice sounding engine, sporty feel and a practical car. The caddy maintenance program was also a nice touch.

It was actually that caddy that encouraged me to buy the F10. Even a "stock" bimmer is just sooooo much more customizable than any caddy. My car is being built for me the way that I want it and then there is even more to do when it arrives.

The CTS-V is pretty impressive and should only be compared to an "M" car when you're looking at performance, I have very recently had the opportunity to drive a 2014 M6 and that is truly an agressive, uncompromising, unashamed BEAST .

The price difference comes at a cost, definitely there is a premium to be paid for the marque, but the build quality of the caddy cannot compare to the build quality of the bimmer.

I have only good things to say about my caddy. It's been a great car, but I can't wait to finally receive my F10!!

[BMWMilan]

Originally Posted by Cairo Kid

I have a 2008 CTS AWD that has given me almost six years of trouble free service and, although it was only the 3.6 L 6 cylinder, was great fun to drive. Nice sounding engine, sporty feel and a practical car. The caddy maintenance program was also a nice touch.

It was actually that caddy that encouraged me to buy the F10. Even a "stock" bimmer is just sooooo much more customizable than any caddy. My car is being built for me the way that I want it and then there is even more to do when it arrives.

The CTS-V is pretty impressive and should only be compared to an "M" car when you're looking at performance, I have very recently had the opportunity to drive a 2014 M6 and that is truly an agressive, uncompromising, unashamed BEAST .

The price difference comes at a cost, definitely there is a premium to be paid for the marque, but the build quality of the caddy cannot compare to the build quality of the bimmer.

I have only good things to say about my caddy. It's been a great car, but I can't wait to finally receive my F10!!

Please don't get me started on the F10 M6.

That thing really really makes me sad.

It's like an AMG-poser without the all-wheel drive to take advantage of the hp and torque from that beautiful V8.

[Cairo Kid]

Originally Posted by ipsedixit

Please don't get me started on the F10 M6.

That thing really really makes me sad.

It's like an AMG-poser without the all-wheel drive to take advantage of the hp and torque from that beautiful V8.

I didn't really have any gripes about the performance. I did find the DCT to be harsh and wasn't sure I would be happy with that on a day to day basis, mind you I don't have experience with other BMW DCTs, so perhaps this one was unusual (to tell you the truth, the only other DCT i've ever experienced was on a 2014 Boxster i test drove, much less powerful but LOADS of fun, a two seater just isn't practical for me though). Body roll was minimal while drifting (with an official "BMW" driver at the wheel). The engine sound was too subdued for my liking, but there was tonnes of power available all the time.

That being said, i'm happy with my choice for a regular F10 rather than an "M" as my choice for luxury performance sedan (emphasis on luxury). For now, anyways........

[Bmwlvr60]

I don't like the exterior or interior of the Caddys. I find them unattractive and cheaply made. I drove the ATS a few months and it was floaty- though better than it used to be. To compare the handling to a 3 Series is a joke- might as well compare the "sport" version of a Buick, if there is such a thing to a 3 Series.

I'm going to test drive the CTS with an open mind. Unfortunately, I've found the Caddy dealers by me to be quite poor.

The LCI 5 Series has been tightened up- steering and suspension. M Sport passive suspension is fantastic- and even the regular M Sport suspension is great. The Dynamic Handling package is another great option with the 535/550.

A 550 with DHP and loaded up with technology is the premier under $100k car in the world- best combination of Horsepower, Performance, Technology, Luxury and handling.

[wrecked2001]

Here something to think about, the current 2014 CTS-V is the older design and chassis. The new Caddy CTS V-sport with a 420HP TT V6 is direct competitor to the 550i and looks alot better inside and out compared to the old design and spec'd out at a little over $70K. Caddy is developing a CT-V M5 fighter rumored 650HP, retuned magnetic ride control, carbon ceramic brakes, price wise it will be direct competitor to the M5. They are trying to move up-market the new CTS is not "in-between" in size as the previous generation, it will be a direct competitor at every price point with F10.

[newtoav]

I think that the average reader here at Bimmerpost wants a car that performs great and is a cut above the rest. I think the E39 (and to a lesser extent the E60) were just that. They set the bar consistently high and they kept elevating the BMW brand. My feeling is that BMW is still basking under the glow of the brand it created in the past, but delivering cars that the masses (not necessarily us) find attractive. Hence the high sales. And, I think Cadillac is looking for such a halo effect, therefore putting so much effort into creating a car that performs a cut above the rest. If they win over a few of us - which they will with the kind of price/performance the CTS-V has - they will start building a sports-oriented, younger guy's brand. Partly because BMW moved away from that spot and allowed them to.

I think the big question is where the next 5-series will land in terms of power/weight/handling. If it lards up even more, I think most of us will be disappointed and will start finding other brands that cater to our us and deliver the sport/performance/youth attributes we want. The way I read the tea leaves, at this point we're still loyal, but I don't think we'd stand for another dramatic shift away from what we consider the core values of the BMW brand.

Wasn't BMW supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine?

I think it can be objectively stated right now that it isn't. Audis are beating us in every comparo. Cadillac is more of drivers car. This sucks, it's slowly but surely eroding the brand that I was so proud to own.

[PawnStar]

In case you guys haven't seen this Head2Head...I don't remember seeing Lieberman this excited about a car in a long time...actually ever....

This episode compares the new, 'untested' CTS VSport against a previous winner of MT's comparo, that included 535i, A6 SC, Infiniti M37. Lieberman says referring to the other test: "after about 1000 feet it became obvious that the comparison test is a battle for 2nd place, that's how good the Lexus GS FSport is"...

And now, the winner of that test is going Head2Head with the CTS VSport. Interestingly, at 60k CTS Vsport competes against a pretty base 535i, not even a 550i, which is more like 70k.

Seems like CTS Vsport murders the Lexus in every category here...

[cblandin]

Originally Posted by wrecked2001

Here something to think about, the current 2014 CTS-V is the older design and chassis. The new Caddy CTS V-sport with a 420HP TT V6 is direct competitor to the 550i and looks alot better inside and out compared to the old design and spec'd out at a little over $70K. Caddy is developing a CT-V M5 fighter rumored 650HP, retuned magnetic ride control, carbon ceramic brakes, price wise it will be direct competitor to the M5. They are trying to move up-market the new CTS is not "in-between" in size as the previous generation, it will be a direct competitor at every price point with F10.

Yep. It will be very interesting to see what the new CTS-V is like. Given the nice weight reduction Caddy seems to have managed and the positive reviews (a regular CTS just beat the Merc and BMW in C&Ds review this month...still lost to the Audi), it will likely be a sweet ride. Admittedly, when I sat in the new CTS at the auto show it was nice, but just not as big of a leap as I thought it would be.

[1HOT BMR]

Originally Posted by ipsedixit

Yes, the brand-spanking new one with S/C V8 stolen from the ZR1.

Try it, it's mind-blowing.

It makes me sad to wonder why BMW isn't making a car like this. More importantly, I want to know why.

I want the BMW that I fell in love with back.

It appears that you drove the same version I did: S/C 6.2l V8. Is Cadillac still selling the same car this year as a 2014 "new" model? Has anyone driven the new Corvette C7 yet? I'm waiting for my local dealer to get one

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by The X Men

The CTS is the motor trend car of the year, its one heck of a drivers car like you said. Cadillac and BMW are two companies that are going in opposite direction, BMW is designing their car more for comfort and Cadillac for performance. I am sure BMW can design a car just like the CTS, but why would they want to? BMW sold 337,929 units of 5 series worldwide in 2012, Cadillac sold 51,674 CTS. Its pretty clear which car the demographic wants.

Comparing sales numbers are pretty meaningless for two reasons.
1) Cadillac only really has an established dealer network in the US.
2) The Toyota Camry outsold the BMW 5-Series, but that doesn't make the Camry a better car now does it?

[ep_83]

Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60

I drove the ATS a few months and it was floaty- though better than it used to be. To compare the handling to a 3 Series is a joke- might as well compare the "sport" version of a Buick, if there is such a thing to a 3 Series.

I'm sorry, but you either don't know what an ATS is or you're just flat out lying lol. Floaty? ...no... Handling is a joke compared to the 3 series? You have no idea what you're talking about. The 3 series has advantages over the ATS, but handling is not one of them.

And what do you mean it's better than it used to be? 2013 is the first model year for the ATS. The 2014 drives no different.

[Catfish454]

One big difference in the two: In three years the $70k Caddy will be worth $30k. The $70k BMW will be worth considerably more.