[dbs600]

Anyone carry Pepper Spray or Mace in their car?

If so, what brand and where did you buy it?

Thanks!

[goldguilexx]

Don't carry pepper but I got my ex gf a tazer. As for pepper saber red or fox is good. I prefer the gel or foam cause of potential wind factors.
Otherwise if it's for personal safety carry a gun if you are that concerned. I used to deal with large amounts of money and carried a gun in the car.

[bkM3]

i was looking into this for my wife a while back and i think its illegal in NYC. you should look into it.

[dbs600]

Thanks, Gentlemen; much appreciated!

[ezmaass]

dbs - I believe regular mace is illegal in NY. However, pepper spray IS legal. From what I recall, I think you need to buy pepper spray from a firearms dealer - can only buy up to 2 at any time, need to sign something saying you've not been convicted of a crime in the past, etc. If you wanted pepper spray for ANIMALS, you can buy that online and have it shipped to you in NY... for bears, dogs, etc. To be quite honest, something designed for a bear may work just as well for a human!

Now, does it make sense? I don't know. It's quite effective when used appropriately, but the problem with most self defense tools (as I see it) is that people fail to employ these tools effectively under stress. Pepper spray is probably no different - you need to be close enough to use it accurately, need to avoid wind blowback (even with foams), and even more commonly, you need to avoid the prospect of it being taken from you by the attacker... which is probably the most common issue, especially with guns.

I think the reality is that people buy "tools" (mace, pepper spray, guns, whatever) but aren't trained or really ready physically or mentally to use them... but many criminals ARE versed and ready to do so. So, the attacker ends up seeing you're going for that can of pepper spray or gun, and before you know it, they've got it and turned it on you. You've just armed your assailant!

If you're not going to spend a lot of time learning how to properly use a gun in self defense (training courses, shooting range practice, etc), I'd rule that out immediately. Plus, getting a license to carry a concealed weapon in NYC is next to impossible for most people.

With the pepper spray, it's probably not all that risky. It's cheap, easy enough to obtain, and in most cases, even if you fouled things up, its effects are temporary. However, keep in mind that there have been SOME deaths reported with pepper spray - mainly among people who have severe allergic reactions or are asthmatic... it can cause anaphylaxis in some people, leading to death. So, you've got Joe or Sally pulling out a can of pepper spray in a frightening situation, thinking it's a temporary and non-lethal repellent, only to come to find out they've killed someone. That's obviously a liability. And if the attacker was unarmed, and "only" trying to grab your wife's purse, today's funny courts may find the ATTACKER was the victim.

All in all, I'd say it's probably a low risk endeavor to get a small pepper spray for the car - they have slim versions designed to clip to your visor. I'm just not sure how effective it would be. After all, I'm not pulling out my pepper spray to defend against a carjacker at the window with a gun... here are the keys, buddy! I imagine pepper spray as a more effective defense when you're out of the car walking around.

Final thought - BMW's Security Vehicles (of which you can get a 7 or X5) offer protection against .44 caliber bullets and even improvised explosive devices... quite extreme for most people, even in the worst parts of NYC. But it's always an option!

[AP]

For someone living in the UK, I must admit I find this a sad situation that you feel you need to carry this for protection. Its a shame and it does make me appreciate the fact that there are no guns (well rare to be precise) in the UK. I wouldn't even think of pitting any weapon in the car. I don't mean to start a debate or criticise anyone, just reflecting that its not a perfect world out there. I do hope you never have to use any of those.

[Boulder Bill]

AP, I wouldn't say that the concern or "situation" addressed in this thread is terribly wide spread in the US. Perhaps a regional or personal issue; I'm not sure.

And I'm absolutely not endeavoring to initiate a debate. But please don't make a generalization from this thread to the car driving populace of the entire country!

[dbs600]

Quality, quality feedback by both ezmaass and AP; thanks!

[remmib]

Originally Posted by AP

For someone living in the UK, I must admit I find this a sad situation that you feel you need to carry this for protection. Its a shame and it does make me appreciate the fact that there are no guns (well rare to be precise) in the UK. I wouldn't even think of pitting any weapon in the car. I don't mean to start a debate or criticise anyone, just reflecting that its not a perfect world out there. I do hope you never have to use any of those.

Yes, I feel the same way living in Norway.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by AP

For someone living in the UK, I must admit I find this a sad situation that you feel you need to carry this for protection. Its a shame and it does make me appreciate the fact that there are no guns (well rare to be precise) in the UK. I wouldn't even think of pitting any weapon in the car. I don't mean to start a debate or criticise anyone, just reflecting that its not a perfect world out there. I do hope you never have to use any of those.

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

AP, I wouldn't say that the concern or "situation" addressed in this thread is terribly wide spread in the US. Perhaps a regional or personal issue; I'm not sure.

And I'm absolutely not endeavoring to initiate a debate. But please don't make a generalization from this thread to the car driving populace of the entire country!

Originally Posted by remmib

Yes, I feel the same way living in Norway.

While mace won't protect from bullets, my thoughts for this thread originate from this:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/us/car...ng-new-jersey/

[Apple Corps]

Read the report - a STRUGGLE took place.

The most important self defense weapon you have is between your ears.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by Apple Corps

Read the report - a STRUGGLE took place.

The most important self defense weapon you have is between your ears.

Huh?

Of course I read the report; also saw news coverage when it happened.

How does what you wrote cut against my reasoning for this thread?

Not looking for the 'most important self defense weapon'.

Looking to be prepared, and you need not say martial arts training.

Read what I wrote here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=32

[ezmaass]

dbs - wow, that's a terrible story... didn't make the news here in CT (or at least not what I saw... admittedly haven't gotten much news input lately). This kind of stuff will always get the mind going, for sure. You just never know where you can run into senseless violence.

For those from outside the US, please don't assume this is "common" - it's really not. But in a country with 330 million people or thereabouts, stuff will happen. All things considered, I'd say encountering violence like this is extremely rare... even in the NYC metro area, where I've lived nearly my entire life. Certain cities, and then only certain regions of those cities (Chicago, Detroit, etc), have a higher than normal violent crime rate unfortunately - all part of socioeconomic conditions there. But in general, you won't find a lot of Americans who feel nervous about their immediate surroundings.

But that said, I think the OP has a valid point in being concerned and aware. If you drive an expensive car, you're a target to some degree. A criminal can easily single out a guy in a $100k 7-series as a payday. Chances are good that a guy in a car like this will also have a good deal of cash, an expensive watch, a few pieces of expensive jewelry, and a few credit cards with high limits... no less if they're after the car, itself, it makes an attractive target. A carjacker with a 6" knife to your throat can be just as dangerous as one with a .38, as well. So, while I'm not looking to get into a debate on guns, I will say that I'm of the opinion that the weapon of choice is not the problem - it's a symptom, and the root cause is something at a societal level where there exist people who feel they have no other recourse but to turn to violent crime.

As I alluded to in my post above, I'm all about cooperation in these circumstances. I think most criminals are like scared animals. Their adrenaline is pumping, and they're looking to make a break with their payday as quickly and cleanly as possible. If you look like you're going to be difficult or get in the way (put up a struggle, make a scene, etc), that's when things can go bad very quickly. Of course, I think it's important to recognize what type of criminal you're dealing with, though - if they want your "stuff," just cooperate and move on. If they want YOU, that's when you fight back. Stuff can be replaced. This is where I think that the presence of a "defensive weapon" (even if just pepper spray) can escalate a situation, too. You pull out the pepper spray on a carjacker, and they pull out a gun. And chances are they've been preparing and are "in the zone" for the confrontation, while you're caught off-guard.

So, I don't know... as I said, it's an unfortunate thing when these kinds of senseless acts of violence occur. We're probably all drawn into the temptation to think about how we'd have handled the situation and could prepare for it. Defensive weapons look attractive in theory, but I do tend to believe they're less often applied successfully. Rather, I think the best advice is to stay calm, cooperate, don't spook the attacker or escalate the situation, and move on... again, assuming all they want is your possessions.

[Apple Corps]

Originally Posted by dbs600

Huh?

Of course I read the report; also saw news coverage when it happened.

How does what you wrote cut against my reasoning for this thread?

Not looking for the 'most important self defense weapon'.

Looking to be prepared, and you need not say martial arts training.

Read what I wrote here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=32

Pull your throttles back - I read the report and there was a struggle. A couple of thugs confront you and you get into it with them????? Hand them the keys and tell them to have a nice day.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by Apple Corps

Pull your throttles back - I read the report and there was a struggle. A couple of thugs confront you and you get into it with them????? Hand them the keys and tell them to have a nice day.

'Pull my throttles back'!? And what if you're assessing the situation as it unfolds and it's not that simple or physical contact is imminent...?

Different, but did you not see this last week(?):

People are desperate and depraved today.

[digitalnoah]

It turns out that the world is safer now then it has been in a long time. However, we don't pay attention to the data that shows this. Instead we let the stories we hear from others, the news, the internet, and forums paint our world view.

While the probability of being victimized is lower than it has been in several decades, the FEAR that you COULD be victimized is higher than ever because we are now aware of every single last incident of crime, freak accidents, coincidences, etc.

I encourage you to look up the crime statistics from the recent past in comparison to that of the previous decades. There is an irrefutable downward trend. Here's one example data source on NYC crime rates:
http://www.disastercenter.com/newyork/crime/9004.htm

You'll see that while the population of the city has gone up between 1980 and 2005, the rate of rape, robbery, and assault have all gone down dramatically (about 3x on average).

[613Bimmer]

Originally Posted by dbs600

'Pull my throttles back'!? And what if you're assessing the situation as it unfolds and it's not that simple or physical contact is imminent...?

Different, but did you not see this last week(?):

People are desperate and depraved today.

Look at the related videos lol.

This is a serious issue however. We make ourselves targets by driving such nice cars so in turn, I keep pepper spray in my car. One time, someone who cut me off and was road raging at me in heavy traffic. He then pulled hsi car in front of mine blocking me completely. He got out of his car and was threatening to beat me and my son who was in the passenger seat. I then showed him the pepper spray and he walked away immediately. It seems like just having it on you can be a way to prevent harm.

Just my 2 cents.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by digitalnoah

It turns out that the world is safer now then it has been in a long time. However, we don't pay attention to the data that shows this. Instead we let the stories we hear from others, the news, the internet, and forums paint our world view.

While the probability of being victimized is lower than it has been in several decades, the FEAR that you COULD be victimized is higher than ever because we are now aware of every single last incident of crime, freak accidents, coincidences, etc.

I encourage you to look up the crime statistics from the recent past in comparison to that of the previous decades. There is an irrefutable downward trend. Here's one example data source on NYC crime rates:
http://www.disastercenter.com/newyork/crime/9004.htm

You'll see that while the population of the city has gone up between 1980 and 2005, the rate of rape, robbery, and assault have all gone down dramatically (about 3x on average).

Downward or not, better prepared than not.

I'm the type to lock doors on entry; roll up the windows in questionable neighborhoods, never stop at gas stations in said neighbors, attempt to remain in the center most lane in said areas; park near in well lit areas. These are all small things that go a long way, but even if crime is falling, I'm always going to be alert; not letting my guard down. Late 80's / early 90's weren't great, which is why we kept Mace back then, it expired and we tossed it over the years, but I now feel the need again (and I'm not going to comment on guns; no idea how some parade same around here).

How about the "knock-out" game; no words; beyond me.

That said, wouldn't say crime is less in places like Far Rockaway or Hempstead, NY (Hempstead now uses an intelligent system named "GunShot" to triangulate shooting scenes, its that bad) or Chicago, IL. Believe it or not, many stats were skewed by Bloomberg; downward, yes, 70's levels, no, but certainly more than meets the eye.

[SouthernBoy]

Neither. Get a gun. Especially useful when someone cuts you off on the road. We're now allowed to carry them in bars and restaurants here (new law recently passed in Georgia)

[dtn]

Mace.

[Daddy Wagon]

I keep a loaded 45 in my driver door. It's legal in AZ 🔫

[munch520]

OP, I wouldn't advise PS or mace. Simple things, like wind, can make things go sideways for you. Plus, it'll likely just piss off your attacker even more.

Instead, invest in some good self defense training if you feel the need. Krav Maga is a great start.

As others have mentioned here already, situational awareness and preparedness is your first line of defense. Practice and implementation are free, and it's a great tool to have on your side!

Compliance is a great way to avoid situations, and giving them your keys is all well and good in a carjacking scenario. Unless your baby is strapped into a car seat. Compliance turns to resistance in that situation. You just never know. I've been held at knife point and easily diffused the situation by throwing the dude my wallet. What that thug doesn't know is that he was 2 seconds from a dirt nap. Thankfully he left and I didn't have to shoot him.

I carry a weapon, and am prepared to use it if necessary. I've been shot at before and I'm glad I have one. But I also shoot 3-5,000 rounds annually, have TCCC training, CQC/shoothouse experience, etc. Owning and carrying a gun is a right in this country but I also believe it's a tremendous responsibility. It can be a force multiplier, but it's more of a liability than an asset in untrained hands.

Arm yourself as you see fit in your area and based on your needs. You'll get the, "Can't you just fight them off? Or call the cops?" Bottom line is I'm a husband and father, and I'm neither arrogant enough to assume I can Chuck Norris my way out of a situation, nor ignorant enough to assume the cops will have a lightning-fast response time.

You and only you are the first line of defense for yourself and your loved ones. Plan accordingly.