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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum BMW unveils single turbo N55 six-cylinder engine for new 5-series GT
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      05-27-2009, 04:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbiz View Post
now we need a bi-scroll turbos and valvetronic.
is the scroll turbo similar to what porsche uses in the 997 turbo?
This motor uses a bi-scroll- that is the whole point of this motor.

A twin scroll or bi-scroll essentially is two turbos in one as they can effectively stream the exhaust to the vanes from alternating cylinders and not cause turbulence.

The new ///M motor started the BMW twin scroll reign, with this following suit- there are more on the way.
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      05-27-2009, 09:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by godora View Post
and what you believe i think is totally right, BMW teaming up with mercedes ? possible but to some level, i do think that they might do something together on the environmental issues and reducing emissions since 2 heads are better than one but sharing chassis and engine components and all that is little bit to much because that is really what distinguishes this cars , engines, chassis and design.
Well, to some it may seem strange,to others don't, but it's a fact! The new 7-series Hybrid as well as the S-400 Hybrid will be sharing a jointly developed Hybrid system. I mean, that the cooperation has started already. Let's see how deeper it'll go...
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      05-27-2009, 10:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
This motor (N55) will NOT be replacing the N54. It will not be part of the initial launch of the GT in the US. There will be no TWIN POWER name in the US- THANK goodness as that is the cheeziest- name ever ( EU Only will see that naming).... US will remain as BMW POWER or M POWER ONLY; no stupid tag lines.

Like we have been saying for months; BMW will be releasing several new motors using twin scroll chargers (next step in Efficient dynamics). Everything I hear points to a US launch in the last model to receive a turbo engine (outside the ///M)- I am sure you all know what that is!

There is also a power bump coming to another motor in the future as well....

Lots of new stuff in the works; it is a great time for us enthusiasts; and me being the only one who like the 5er GT (it looks better in person).
I'm not sure if I get you right. You say the N55 won't replace the N54 as it is now (i.e. with the same output)?


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      05-27-2009, 01:32 PM   #26
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cross-cooperation is part of the automotive landscape, but i think your points are too far from what will realistically happen.

BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler and GM all participated in their hybrid program. the results have been seen (GM and Chrysler have only applied their jointly developed systems on the full-size SUV's, other hybrids by GM were developed separately).

However, to say that the C and 3-series, the E and 5-Series and other cars will be based on the similar architecture is probably a VERY long-term project. we've seen that the F-30 platform is currently under development. given a 6-year life cycle for that platform, there won't be a possible development of a joint 3-C platform until the 2018 model.

the new F-10's are starting to come out. again, given a 6-year life cycle, there won't be a new E/5 platform until 2016.

the current MB ML is based on the current Jeep Grand Cherokee, designed primarily by the Germans, featuring a body-on-frame chassis. the next generation ML will feature a new chassis, developed by Chrysler, which is said to be far superior to the current chassis. however, it's still a body-on-frame chassis. with that being said, we probably won't see a new ML for another year, and another new platform for a while after that. an ML/X5 cross-developed SUV won't hit the market for a really long time.

with all that, some mags may print stuff about rumors they've heard, but just from a planning point, unless BMW and Merc want to scrap their current plans (in which they've invested heavily), we won't see a single platform developed from this arrangement for a very long time.

looking at possible partners for BMW to team up with may be a great way to see where the products will end up, but i don't see BMW merging up with anyone, anytime soon, except for small projects, like they currently have with PSA (and formerly Chrysler) to build the engines for the MINI.
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      05-27-2009, 04:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fijigabe0 View Post
cross-cooperation is part of the automotive landscape, but i think your points are too far from what will realistically happen.

BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler and GM all participated in their hybrid program. the results have been seen (GM and Chrysler have only applied their jointly developed systems on the full-size SUV's, other hybrids by GM were developed separately).

However, to say that the C and 3-series, the E and 5-Series and other cars will be based on the similar architecture is probably a VERY long-term project. we've seen that the F-30 platform is currently under development. given a 6-year life cycle for that platform, there won't be a possible development of a joint 3-C platform until the 2018 model.

the new F-10's are starting to come out. again, given a 6-year life cycle, there won't be a new E/5 platform until 2016.

the current MB ML is based on the current Jeep Grand Cherokee, designed primarily by the Germans, featuring a body-on-frame chassis. the next generation ML will feature a new chassis, developed by Chrysler, which is said to be far superior to the current chassis. however, it's still a body-on-frame chassis. with that being said, we probably won't see a new ML for another year, and another new platform for a while after that. an ML/X5 cross-developed SUV won't hit the market for a really long time.

with all that, some mags may print stuff about rumors they've heard, but just from a planning point, unless BMW and Merc want to scrap their current plans (in which they've invested heavily), we won't see a single platform developed from this arrangement for a very long time.

looking at possible partners for BMW to team up with may be a great way to see where the products will end up, but i don't see BMW merging up with anyone, anytime soon, except for small projects, like they currently have with PSA (and formerly Chrysler) to build the engines for the MINI.

Personally I hope that no mergers happen. At most, the odd engine and tech collaborations are fine.

The magazine did make mention that the companies are "still at least a year" away from making any decisions, so yes, if anything comes from this we'll probably only see the effects much later.
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      05-27-2009, 04:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I'm not sure if I get you right. You say the N55 won't replace the N54 as it is now (i.e. with the same output)?


Best regards,
south
The N55 will not be swapped into cars in place of the N54, the N54 will still be used and may see some changes but will not be all out replaced by the N55.
I guess what I am saying is that the N55 will not signify the end of the N54.

I hope that clarifies.
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      05-27-2009, 06:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darknightohio View Post
...
Yes valvetronic is back in BMW engines again, due to technical reasons the engineers weren't able to use valvetronic correctly with the N54 but have finally overcome whatever obstacles were in their way and now it returns to the N55 with direct injection...
I guess I like the supposed improvements in the N55, but I'm just wondering why Valvetronic needed to be used in light of the following (from the 2007 N54 Engine Mechanical pdf here, page 8):

Quote:
Valvetronic
The N52KP and N51 retain the already proven Valvetronic system. The only changes to the system for 2007 is an optimized VVT motor.

On the other hand, the N54 engine does NOT use Valvetronic. This is due to the fact that the Valvetronic system is designed to reduce pumping losses. It is a system which improves volumetric efficiency by optimizing the air charge.

A turbocharger system is also designed to increase volumetric efficiency by reducing pumping losses. Therefore, there is no need for both of these systems to be employed on the same engine. The N54 gains maximum efficiency by the use of turbocharging and direct injection.
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      05-27-2009, 07:08 PM   #30
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why wouldnt it replace the N54??? BMW would be stupid not to utilize better performace and efficiency in an easier to build, more cost effective package and making it available in every car. Where have you heard that they arent??
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      05-27-2009, 07:41 PM   #31
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what happens if you add another turbo to this engine?
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      05-27-2009, 08:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbiz View Post
now we need a bi-scroll turbos and valvetronic.
is the scroll turbo similar to what porsche uses in the 997 turbo?
no it is not. twin scroll only has two settings or two different sized entires. while the variable geometry twin turbos in the 997 have infinitely variable settings just like a CVT transmission. It is a much more sophisticated turbo design.
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      05-27-2009, 09:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell330i View Post
why wouldnt it replace the N54??? BMW would be stupid not to utilize better performace and efficiency in an easier to build, more cost effective package and making it available in every car. Where have you heard that they arent??
What makes you think this motor is more cost effective for them to build? It isn't. Valvetronic is more complex and costly than a turbo. I have my sources and they insist this is not going to replace all the N54s. There are a few more tricks left in the N54.

The N54 did not replace the N52 did it? Nope and they could have made a single turbo de-tuned version and said good bye to it as well. All BMW engines have a life cycle just as the cars do. The NA V8 is still in the X5 and the 550i as well, they did not go turbo. The N54 will remain in some models until end of life.

The N55 has a purpose and will be added in the US market to the model that has not gone turbo yet... BMWNA likes to launch a breakthrough item in new or refreshed models. The 5er GT brings in the PAS concept and Brake energy regeneration, the N53 marketing would have been too much or a waste so it is held for another.

-M
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      05-28-2009, 12:02 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
Don't mean to be an ass, but, ALL that sounds very VERY unlikely. BMW and FWD? I hardly believe so. And them pairing up with Mercedes Benz to share chassis and engines, highly doubt that too. We can already see BMW progressing and scheming their future engines and chassis with no intentions of pairing up with Mercedes Benz. We already have prototypes of the future M5 and M6 engines ( the new X5m and X6m engines). These engines are early stage projects for futures engines that will most likely become single turbo engines with valvetronic technology. Even though companies are leaning towards reducing production costs, they won't change their ways of being or the essence that makes them what they are. Hence, BMW will never become a non-luxury automobile manufacturer. FWD and BMW simply haven't mixed since the beginning of time and I doubt thats the way they will head. But again, this is just what I believe.

I know but.. Audi has their A4 available in FWD even an A6 i believe..
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      05-28-2009, 04:52 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by d3l0n View Post
I know but.. Audi has their A4 available in FWD even an A6 i believe..
Audi will begin dropping FWD in the US market as early as this fall in the majority of its models- the A3 may still have the option.
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      05-28-2009, 07:10 AM   #36
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Both engines produce nearly the equivalent amount of power with improvements in response made in the newer engine. Why would BMW continue to make two powerplants that make nearly equivalent power from the same displacement?

Using common sense, this engine would probably phase out the old one across the lineup as the old cars get replaced. Im sure the new 535i sedan will use this new engine alongside the GT as the second model to get the upgrade
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      05-28-2009, 09:04 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimple View Post
I guess I like the supposed improvements in the N55, but I'm just wondering why Valvetronic needed to be used in light of the following (from the 2007 N54 Engine Mechanical pdf here, page 8):
my guess: because this new engine is a single-turbo unit, albeit, twin-scroll, it still requires the addition of valvetronic to build the torque curve, and optimize HP on the engine.
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      05-28-2009, 09:36 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
The N55 will not be swapped into cars in place of the N54, the N54 will still be used and may see some changes but will not be all out replaced by the N55.
I guess what I am saying is that the N55 will not signify the end of the N54.

I hope that clarifies.
Thanks. Anyway, I'm not so sure about that. N55 has the same output and yet provides better fuel consumption. So I think the N55 has to be in every high volume model (for example 3 and 5 series). On the other hand, low volume models like Z4 still could use the N54. Don't you agree?


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      05-28-2009, 05:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Thanks. Anyway, I'm not so sure about that. N55 has the same output and yet provides better fuel consumption. So I think the N55 has to be in every high volume model (for example 3 and 5 series). On the other hand, low volume models like Z4 still could use the N54. Don't you agree?


Best regards,
south
What people are thinking about here is the N54 in current form 300/300....


I will use the example of the DCT transmission in non ///M cars. In the EU and elsewhere the 335 in E92/93 guise can be ordered with it- in the US this still does not exist. Reason: needed a new model in the US to launch it in (standard BMWNA fare). Note: the N55 is not launching in the US with the 5er GT and will not be part of that models offering initially (going to be launched in another model).


In the EU there is the N54 in the 740i that produces more power than the one in the E9X (etc.) This motor is still not in the US BUT will be offered as part of the Power Kit for the N54- what this means is that BMW had to go through the whole process of homologation for that version of the N54 in other N54 powered models- so one can expect (and what my sources have been saying for some time) that the N54 will see an up-tune before its demise.

There are other motors being developed as well and that will begin appearing with LCIs and new models.... the N52 may be the first to go.

I will explain more when I can
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      05-28-2009, 06:15 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
Don't mean to be an ass, but, ALL that sounds very VERY unlikely. BMW and FWD? I hardly believe so. And them pairing up with Mercedes Benz to share chassis and engines, highly doubt that too. We can already see BMW progressing and scheming their future engines and chassis with no intentions of pairing up with Mercedes Benz. We already have prototypes of the future M5 and M6 engines ( the new X5m and X6m engines). These engines are early stage projects for futures engines that will most likely become single turbo engines with valvetronic technology. Even though companies are leaning towards reducing production costs, they won't change their ways of being or the essence that makes them what they are. Hence, BMW will never become a non-luxury automobile manufacturer. FWD and BMW simply haven't mixed since the beginning of time and I doubt thats the way they will head. But again, this is just what I believe.
A V6 and BMW have't mixed from the beginning of time either, but that didn't stop them from making the decision to put on in the next generation M3.
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      05-28-2009, 08:39 PM   #41
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Maybe the N54 will be used as a higher output model in many BMW's producing around 350hp and the upcoming N55 could be the secondary engine producing 300hp.
And before rejecting this thought, think about how easily N54 can produce 350hp with some minor mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post


In the EU there is the N54 in the 740i that produces more power than the one in the E9X (etc.) This motor is still not in the US BUT will be offered as part of the Power Kit for the N54- what this means is that BMW had to go through the whole process of homologation for that version of the N54 in other N54 powered models- so one can expect (and what my sources have been saying for some time) that the N54 will see an up-tune before its demise.
I dont think the N54 will demise that quickly as it is still a new technology. I think they can only improve it instead of canceling it out.
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      05-28-2009, 08:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by OBI_agent View Post
Maybe the N54 will be used as a higher output model in many BMW's producing around 350hp and the upcoming N55 could be the secondary engine producing 300hp.
And before rejecting this thought, think about how easily N54 can produce 350hp with some minor mods



I dont think the N54 will demise that quickly as it is still a new technology. I think they can only improve it instead of canceling it out.
I agree and that was my point: The N55 will not replace the N54.
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      05-29-2009, 10:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
I agree and that was my point: The N55 will not replace the N54.
+1....Sorry dude for the misunderstanding.....I think I quoted the wrong post....At that time, I was really sleepy....so .....
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      05-29-2009, 11:50 AM   #44
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BMW needs to add Valvetronic to their V8 Twin turbo now.
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