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      06-27-2010, 07:22 PM   #45
nmulax
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Hamilton disgusts me
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Finally, the valencia GP is soooo much better compare to previous years....
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Again...i HATE FOX-SPEED F1 coverage....
Been spoiled by the BBC F1 show...so much better!!!
Yeah this was definitely more entertaining then last year - just glad Webber walked away without injuries. And tell me about it with the hatred of Fox. I Tivo'd the race so I could take my niece to the waterslide at my gym. Go to watch it, and the last half of the race wasn't shown due to an "emergency weather update" about storms 2-3 hours south of me!
Isn't that what the Weather Channel is for!?

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Yes, Ferrari is alway the righteous one. God I hate it how they whined and complained everytime things are not going their way.
Ferrari isn't always in the right, but today they were. Hamilton looked to be pulling behind the safety car, then at the last second he blows past. How was a quick drive through penalty sufficient punishment?
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      06-27-2010, 09:10 PM   #46
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What LH did was wrong, he should not have overtaken that SC whether he knew it or not. Now what done is done, the stewards handed the judgement at the time and that was for him to serve a drive through, no one knew that was fair or not until he joined back and still in the same position as he was, that judgement was in the stewards hands and they should have done more calculation for a harsher punishment at that time. It is not fair but that is racing, there are more unfair rulings than that for the past 2 yrs. I think what should of happened is that SC should have deployed front of SV.
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      06-28-2010, 12:05 AM   #47
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What LH did was wrong, he should not have overtaken that SC whether he knew it or not. Now what done is done, the stewards handed the judgement at the time and that was for him to serve a drive through, no one knew that was fair or not until he joined back and still in the same position as he was, that judgement was in the stewards hands and they should have done more calculation for a harsher punishment at that time. It is not fair but that is racing, there are more unfair rulings than that for the past 2 yrs. I think what should of happened is that SC should have deployed front of SV.
Agreed. I think we all thought the drive through would be enough. Oh well, karma is a bitch LH.

Glad Webber walked away. Wow....a car flipping him in the air not once, but twice in his career!

Good to he Vettel on top again. Half way done with the season and he's back in the hunt!
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      06-28-2010, 01:29 AM   #48
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Today's situation is more like Mark webber last year in Germany...where he was handed a drive-thru penalty, but he still fast enough to make up the bogey time and kept his lead and win. Also Nico Rosberg in Singapore 2008, where he pitted under safety car and pit lane still closed. He had a clear track and made enough time to just drop one grid into P3.

This time LH was lucky to have Kobayashi holding up JB and others behind so he has more than 25-30+ seconds to serve a drive though without losing gird position.

Was a bit disappointed to see JB gave up the fight with Kobayashi. Clearly the McLaren was so much faster, but he never give any pressure to the Japanese driver.
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      06-28-2010, 02:17 AM   #49
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      06-28-2010, 03:53 AM   #50
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How was a quick drive through penalty sufficient punishment?
It was deemed sufficient at the time it was handed out.

To suggest anything else is basically FIXING the results which is completely unacceptable.
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      06-28-2010, 07:52 AM   #51
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It was deemed sufficient at the time it was handed out.

To suggest anything else is basically FIXING the results which is completely unacceptable.
Well then they're all idiots. It would've been pretty simple to calculate that Lewis would've come out of the pits in the position he did.
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      06-28-2010, 08:14 AM   #52
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That is a scary image...

Anyways, I don't really see much wrong with how the situation ended up for Hamilton. He made a competitive move, and then got a penalty for it. The penalty was served. The fact that no one else was close enough to capitalize isn't Hamilton's fault.

Like in Hockey, if the other team gets a penalty and you are given a powerplay that doesn't just outright give you a free goal. You have to still capitalize on the situation.
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      06-28-2010, 08:31 AM   #53
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I think we have alot of Lh haters
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      06-28-2010, 08:40 AM   #54
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Well then they're all idiots. It would've been pretty simple to calculate that Lewis would've come out of the pits in the position he did.
The penalty fit the violation. Not his track position.
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      06-28-2010, 08:53 AM   #55
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+1
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      06-28-2010, 09:46 AM   #56
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Well then they're all idiots. It would've been pretty simple to calculate that Lewis would've come out of the pits in the position he did.
although at time we all think the stewards are all idiots, in this case i dont agree. If you look at the gap btwn LH and Kobayashi, think at the time it was about 15 sec, w/ everyone else very close behind. The drive through would take roughly 20 sec, meaning LH would have come out in 6-7 easily, all the commentators also thought that. BUT LH was told to push his car to the max and was able to make enough of a gap

as others have said, this wasnt the first time this has happened in F1, the only diff is the average person hates LH and thats why its a big deal

I dont see people complaining about the other drivers only getting 5 sec penalties when LH got closer to 20, he was just fast enough were it didnt bother him
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      06-28-2010, 09:49 AM   #57
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The penalty fit the violation. Not his track position.
So far only been Ferrari and Alonso been whining that he should be disqualified or drop 10 grid position or something severe because the Scuderia "followed" the rules.
Christian Horner didn't agree with Alonso's comments.

Quote:
"I think the Safety Car rules have not played out for Ferrari, and McLaren was perhaps a bit naughty with the way it worked it, but it got a penalty for that.

"Arguably it didn't cost them, but that's just the way it worked out. I don't think it was manipulated."

He added: "The FIA just need to look at the Safety Car rules in the future."
McLaren (LH) did a calculated risk, and lucky enough to have Kobayashi to hold up the field.

For the Scuderia themselves, they will need to look again at their pit strategy when safety car deployed. To me seems "stacking" two cars is wasting time and cost them valuable track position.
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      06-28-2010, 09:55 AM   #58
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although at time we all think the stewards are all idiots, in this case i dont agree. If you look at the gap btwn LH and Kobayashi, think at the time it was about 15 sec, w/ everyone else very close behind. The drive through would take roughly 20 sec, meaning LH would have come out in 6-7 easily, all the commentators also thought that. BUT LH was told to push his car to the max and was able to make enough of a gap

as others have said, this wasnt the first time this has happened in F1, the only diff is the average person hates LH and thats why its a big deal

I dont see people complaining about the other drivers only getting 5 sec penalties when LH got closer to 20, he was just fast enough were it didnt bother him
To be honest, this was non-issue. Ferrari and Alonso wasn't happy because the SC didn't played in their favor. And the penalty handed to LH wasn't severe enough in their perspective.

As I mentioned yesterday, every driver does that when they suspect they will serve a drive-through penalty. Mark Webber in Nurburgring last year, and Nico Rosberg in Singapore 2008. They both make up enough time not to lose track position or minimize the track position lost while serving the penalty.

Alonso blamed the FIA "manipulated" the race result. There's no way in hell I will agree! If the Stewards looked at the time gap for LH and cars behind, then decide what kind of penalty to drop him 4-5 grid spots....then THIS IS MANIPULATING THE RESULT!!!! You cannot adjust the penalty to make others feel more "fair".
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      06-28-2010, 12:32 PM   #59
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To be honest, this was non-issue. Ferrari and Alonso wasn't happy because the SC didn't played in their favor. And the penalty handed to LH wasn't severe enough in their perspective.

As I mentioned yesterday, every driver does that when they suspect they will serve a drive-through penalty. Mark Webber in Nurburgring last year, and Nico Rosberg in Singapore 2008. They both make up enough time not to lose track position or minimize the track position lost while serving the penalty.

Alonso blamed the FIA "manipulated" the race result. There's no way in hell I will agree! If the Stewards looked at the time gap for LH and cars behind, then decide what kind of penalty to drop him 4-5 grid spots....then THIS IS MANIPULATING THE RESULT!!!! You cannot adjust the penalty to make others feel more "fair".
+1

You got to handed to LH, a little bit of a rogue racer but he was able to closed that gap in such that he did not lose any position. Outstanding driving when you see that he was closing more gap with SV at the end.

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      06-28-2010, 12:41 PM   #60
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I stand corrected. This was by far the worst race of the season.

Aside from the first lap and Webbers incident, it was a snore fest, and was decided by cheating manipulators (Hamilton) and pure dumb luck.

Now, I think that the penalty was completely unfair but for a different reason. Something like passing the safety car should be a black flag or an IMMEDIATE drive through penalty. It is not fair to allow the driver to eke out a 20 second margin and then given him a penalty! The FIA needs to ensure that there is no advantage to cheating at all costs. And in this case, passing the SC was a huge advantage to Hamilton.

Overall, a pretty frustrating and generally lame race for me.
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      06-28-2010, 12:57 PM   #61
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I stand corrected. This was by far the worst race of the season.

Aside from the first lap and Webbers incident, it was a snore fest, and was decided by cheating manipulators (Hamilton) and pure dumb luck.

Now, I think that the penalty was completely unfair but for a different reason. Something like passing the safety car should be a black flag or an IMMEDIATE drive through penalty. It is not fair to allow the driver to eke out a 20 second margin and then given him a penalty! The FIA needs to ensure that there is no advantage to cheating at all costs. And in this case, passing the SC was a huge advantage to Hamilton.

Overall, a pretty frustrating and generally lame race for me.
FIA stewards cannot slap drivers around when they "seemed" to violate regulations. They will need to justify that indeed there was a violation, then hand out the penalty.

How would you feel if a driver was penalized with a drive-through and later video shown that he was indeed passed the SC line before the Safety Car did? By regulation he DID NOT violate anything and got penalized. If drivers are "all guilty until proven innocent", what are you going to do after finding out drivers are indeed innocent? Deduct 20 seconds off from his race time? That sounds like manipulate result.

The stewards were reviewing all the telemetries and various video feeds (including aerial shots) multiple times and have a solid conclusion. You just cannot punish driver before there's a verdict that he was indeed guilty. Given the time that races still proceeds, Race Control and Stewards are strectching thin on determining when the pitlane close and open, when will SC comes in, is the track clear, who violated what, the delta time...etc etc....
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      06-28-2010, 01:00 PM   #62
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I stand corrected. This was by far the worst race of the season.
So I was right in the beginning?

Its not "that" boring compare to Bahrain this season. Yesterday was at least more exciting than its previous years.

I wouldn't say boring, but definitely not the best races for sure. I'll rate somewhere mediocre race in terms of excitement, despite the epic crash of Mark Webber.
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      06-28-2010, 01:34 PM   #63
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      06-28-2010, 01:50 PM   #64
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Well then they're all idiots. It would've been pretty simple to calculate that Lewis would've come out of the pits in the position he did.
Penalties are not handed out based on anything to do with where you are on track, you brake X rule you get X penalty depending on how severe it was, where the driver is on track is NOT a factor in what penalty is given to the driver. Doing so removes impartiality on the part of those handing out the penalties.

You can say the penalty wasn't severe enough but don't propose that they consider that it didn't drop him a place and instead hand him a more severe penalty.

And not one bothers to consider either that he would be in contention for first place for half the race had he not gotten the penalty, so consider that rather then "he went second to second" instead of having blinders on and not seeing the whole picture.
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      06-28-2010, 02:26 PM   #65
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High fiveto kobayshi. The last lap was fantastic when he made back 2 grid spots. Didn't know that the sauber could be driven like that. That was the most exciting time of the race. The only time I like a lead like the one sv and hammy had is when I'm winning in a video game.

But fox needs to go. Commercials every 4 minutes and how many times are you going to mention the damned helmets and different colored mirrors. Yes there isn't a number 13 or 18 cause they are considered bad luck but you don't need to tell me 20,000 times
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      06-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #66
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[quote=O-cha;7575981]Penalties are not handed out based on anything to do with where you are on track, you brake X rule you get X penalty depending on how severe it was, where the driver is on track is NOT a factor in what penalty is given to the driver. Doing so removes impartiality on the part of those handing out the penalties.

[quote]

I agree, but you could make the arguement that it took longer then it should have to make the call... and LH Got lucky because of it.

I feel that the Penalty should also cost you more time then the "crime" saved you.
ei... I you make a pass by cutting a corner and do not give the spot back, you get a drive through.

So that means I feel LH should have got a stop and going and all the others should have got 20+sec not 5sec. Timo's penalty should have been a black Flag or DSQ.

And I know also the Webber fans are going to jump all over this, but someone should remind him how wide this car is. Force the issue with Vettel and now try to Jump a Lotus.
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