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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications N63 Turbo questions
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      06-29-2011, 04:42 PM   #1
gunship guy
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N63 Turbo questions

I will soon take delivery of a 550 and I am considering some mods in the turbo department, just wondering if anyone knows the answers to any of the following, and yes I have used the search button already, can't find much other than speculation on the forum.

1) Who makes the turbos? BMW? Other?

2) How much Tq can the drive train components handle?

3) Does anyone know specific limitations of the turbos? Boost? Mass? EGT?

4) What is the size? A/R? Journal bearing? BB?

5) How about cooling? Oil cooler? Tranny? Where do the intercoolers get their liquid supply? Are the Turbo's cooled other than by oil?

6) Is anyone looking into offer a turbo/exhaust manifold mod?

7) Regarding chip tuning...how EXACTLY do you increase power? Just more boost or other adjustments? Test your tune more than just once on a dyno? How many miles have your tunes logged? Got any dyno graphs? Turbo graphs? I am not impressed with HP #s alone, so much more goes into it. For the chip tuners...what is your education/experience background? Blown any cars up? This could actually help because if you have not had any failures how do you know where the failure point is? Is there an engineering study to back your work, or just a few mouse clicks and some time on a dyno?


I am looking for folks out there that can quantify these answers vice qualify. Can anyone help?
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      06-30-2011, 10:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunship guy View Post
I will soon take delivery of a 550 and I am considering some mods in the turbo department, just wondering if anyone knows the answers to any of the following, and yes I have used the search button already, can't find much other than speculation on the forum.

1) Who makes the turbos? BMW? Other?

2) How much Tq can the drive train components handle?

3) Does anyone know specific limitations of the turbos? Boost? Mass? EGT?

4) What is the size? A/R? Journal bearing? BB?

5) How about cooling? Oil cooler? Tranny? Where do the intercoolers get their liquid supply? Are the Turbo's cooled other than by oil


6) Is anyone looking into offer a turbo/exhaust manifold mod?

7) Regarding chip tuning...how EXACTLY do you increase power? Just more boost or other adjustments? Test your tune more than just once on a dyno? How many miles have your tunes logged? Got any dyno graphs? Turbo graphs? I am not impressed with HP #s alone, so much more goes into it. For the chip tuners...what is your education/experience background? Blown any cars up? This could actually help because if you have not had any failures how do you know where the failure point is? Is there an engineering study to back your work, or just a few mouse clicks and some time on a dyno?


I am looking for folks out there that can quantify these answers vice qualify. Can anyone help?
I'll take a crack at question #1:
The turbos are made by Garrett.

Enter the following search terms: BMW N63 tuning into google and you should be able to find the information you are seeking
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      07-01-2011, 06:25 PM   #3
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More than likely the turbos are made by Borg Warner or Mitsubishi.

Torque handling is hard to say, one would need to either push the limit or find out from BMW.

Turbo limitations, good question. AR design might know the turbine housing A/R's. Turbos are both oil and water cooled.

A different turbo manifold design is quite unlikely due to space limitations.

Tuners primarily increase boost and change air/fuel ratios. If you are very concerned with the details on how it works, you are best buying a book on EFI tuning. I think buying a tune from a reputable company like ESS or AA is going to be much easier for you.
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      07-01-2011, 09:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunship guy View Post
I will soon take delivery of a 550 and I am considering some mods in the turbo department, just wondering if anyone knows the answers to any of the following, and yes I have used the search button already, can't find much other than speculation on the forum.

1) Who makes the turbos? BMW? Other?

The turbos are Garrett GT22's. Not a guess, I took pictures of mine when AR designs was making me DP's
2) How much Tq can the drive train components handle?
Unknown but the same trans has seen 700+wtq with slight modifications. I spoke to ZF about upgrading mine and was told unless I'm constantly drag racing I should be good at a very high level
3) Does anyone know specific limitations of the turbos? Boost? Mass? EGT?
No but my car is being tuned right now and I should hopefully be able to answer this shortly
4) What is the size? A/R? Journal bearing? BB?
Can't remember but I have that info somewhere I'll look but they're small. GT22's but can't remember housings. BB.
5) How about cooling? Oil cooler? Tranny? Where do the intercoolers get their liquid supply? Are the Turbo's cooled other than by oil?
I'm sure it's got an oil cooler but haven't seen it. Not sure about the intercooler plumbing either. Oil & Water.
6) Is anyone looking into offer a turbo/exhaust manifold mod?
Yes I know three shops working on turbo upgrades to work with stock manifold and I know one crazy fool who will be getting a custom manifold made(me) but not for months at least. Depending on what happens with turbo upgrades but having seen the stock mani's myself getting some made is cake.
7) Regarding chip tuning...how EXACTLY do you increase power? Just more boost or other adjustments? Test your tune more than just once on a dyno? How many miles have your tunes logged? Got any dyno graphs? Turbo graphs? I am not impressed with HP #s alone, so much more goes into it. For the chip tuners...what is your education/experience background? Blown any cars up? This could actually help because if you have not had any failures how do you know where the failure point is? Is there an engineering study to back your work, or just a few mouse clicks and some time on a dyno?

No need to blow an engine to know how to tune one but most good tuners who have alot of experience will have blown an engine or two(even the best baker burns bread occasionally) also not all blown engines are the result of bad tuning, some times you get a bad part or push an engine past some components limitation.
I am looking for folks out there that can quantify these answers vice qualify. Can anyone help?
.
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      07-03-2011, 11:07 PM   #5
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5) How about cooling? Oil cooler? Tranny? Where do the intercoolers get their liquid supply? Are the Turbo's cooled other than by oil

The turbos are water cooled,
The cooling system in our cars seem pretty complex.
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      07-28-2011, 08:25 AM   #6
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With regard to question 7

Tuners such as Procede(Vishnu) also do quality engine management for the entire ECU as well as increasing the boost. Based upon their N54 and N55 chips I have not seen a blown engine from a responsibly modded car (no meth/nitro) that is driven hard, but not beaten to death.

I know that Procede and Burger do hundreds if not thousands of man hours testing and datalogging on the chips before an initial version is released. That being said, Chips are not without their bugs and sometimes firmware updates are needed to ensure optimal operational efficiency.

My personal opinion would be to wait until a stable tune comes out for the N63. Let the tuners test the capability of the engine before you put your car on the line.

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