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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum 2012 BMW 528i Receives N20 Turbo 4-cyl Engine, Auto Stop/Start and xDrive AWD
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      07-02-2011, 12:05 AM   #23
gestalt77
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That I4 turbo engine sounds very cool. But a concern is the quality of of this engine in terms of drive feel... such as sound, vibration, rev quality, NVH, etc. Will the "drive feel" of I4 match that of I6???

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      07-02-2011, 12:12 AM   #24
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By the way, is this N20 engine the same one which is currently deployed to X1 28i model?
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      07-02-2011, 01:02 AM   #25
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Great, like it's low-end troque
I would buy this if it were out a year early
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      07-02-2011, 07:42 AM   #26
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Exactly what we need; a 5-series that sounds like an Honda Civic.

I wished that BMW would be as competent as Mercedes.

Combined Euro cycles (2012)
BMW X1 2.0T 240HP 7.9L/100km emissions 183
Mercedes C350 306HP 7.3L/100km emissions 170

The C350 4Matic seems to be gone, otherwise it would [at worst] match the X1 results.... for 25% more power.
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      07-02-2011, 01:19 PM   #27
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If four cylinders is better than six, two is surely better still. Nothing runs like a DEERE.
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      07-02-2011, 03:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Bring. A. Diesel. Here

Prediction ---> not gonna happen.

With the 528 getting the n20, economy in that car is going to be so good there won't be a need for a diesel 5 series in the US, except for those who simply want diesel. And there just aren't enough of those.
The problem is that US diesel prices are more than petrol. Which is complete BS, diesel is cheaper to refine. The federal excise tax is more on diesel, for what reason I do not know.
There are other reasons as well. Not the least of which is that US refineries are set up to make more gas and less diesel per bbl than European refineries. Also we have less diesel pipelines, etc.
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      07-02-2011, 04:42 PM   #29
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The turtle crew? Lol
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      07-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #30
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I believe it's the same one in Z4, I'm unsure about 128i.
Yup. Same one.
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      07-02-2011, 08:43 PM   #31
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Needs direct injection for more power. Not practical for US market because of fuel quality.
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      07-02-2011, 09:49 PM   #32
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Very cool engine!
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      07-03-2011, 03:51 AM   #33
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15% fuel economy improvement over the 3.0 Liter NA engine in the 2011 528i means that MPGs go from 22/32 to 25/36. NICE!!!
No, it doesn't. BMW says "up to 15% improvement" but EPA ratings are still pending. No way in hell this engine is going to get an EPA rated 36 MPG highway in a car weighing nearly 4,000 lbs. My prediction is 25/33 with a combined rating of 28.

I understand the push for fuel economy, but the loss of one of BMW's last remaining I6 engines is tragic. The N52 is one of my favorite engines of all time, especially in 255HP form. I wish they would give buyers the option, even if the 6 carries a cost premium. I know I'd put my money where my mouth is.
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      07-03-2011, 07:59 AM   #34
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. I wish they would give buyers the option, even if the 6 carries a cost premium. I know I'd put my money where my mouth is.
As Mercedes for example.

In 2012, they still offer the V6 NA in their C300/C350. They will reserve their 1.8T 4-cyl. for an entry-level model C250.
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      07-03-2011, 02:13 PM   #35
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True, but did you see the other thread with the global 5 series information?

There is still a 530i in the lineup with a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder, now making 272hp. It might not come to your region, but presumably it will be available in much of the world (not US though).
Didn't see that!
If so, I bet they are going to jack up the price as well, which makes it fine with me.
I wonder if BMW are actually going to offer a hodgepodge of engines, like MB on the C-class in H.K. recently, you could get a c200, (1.8K) c250(1.8T), c250(2.5NA), c300(3.0NA),C350 .. before they switched completely to the new Turbo 1.8, replacing the 1.8Kompressor and eliminating the 2.5NA.

Replacing the 2.5NA 523i with the 2.0T is interesting.. I guess that is slightly less bad than replacement for the 528i, a significantly lower tune for a slightly under-tuned 2.5NA 201HP. Wonder which feels better/worse.

I agree with a previous post, I really wish BMW would offer a fully unleashed N52.. 296HP/300PS@6950, 325NM ! Charge a 535i price for it, but they probably don't want the average driver driving like they're in F1.

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      07-03-2011, 02:29 PM   #36
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4banger on a 5er - would be an interesting test drive. Wonder how it'll perform with the 5er weight.

3series or 1series 4 banger makes
sense.

BMW should offer an LSD option on 2012 bimmers.
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      07-03-2011, 03:35 PM   #37
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BMW should offer an LSD option on 2012 bimmers.
Sorry for my ignorance but what's "LSD?"
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      07-03-2011, 04:31 PM   #38
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      07-03-2011, 05:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gestalt77 View Post
By the way, is this N20 engine the same one which is currently deployed to X1 28i model?
Yes. So its now used in the X1, Z4, and 5 series "20i" and "28i" models. It will also be available in the new 320i and 328i sedans next year. And it should come to the 1 series and X3 sometime next year as well.
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      07-04-2011, 08:44 AM   #40
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I wonder if BMW are actually going to offer a hodgepodge of engines, like MB on the C-class in H.K. recently, you could get a c200, (1.8K) c250(1.8T), c250(2.5NA), c300(3.0NA),C350 .. before they switched completely to the new Turbo 1.8, replacing the 1.8Kompressor and eliminating the 2.5NA.
Wasn't BMW touting an "all turbo petrol" engine lineup in the near future at whatever auto show they announced the N20 at? I hope not, but I think all of the NA engines are going away, both I4 and I6. They were talking about a 1.5L 3-cylinder turbo as well, which I guess would replace the NA I4 engines.
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      07-04-2011, 10:18 AM   #41
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Wasn't BMW touting an "all turbo petrol" engine lineup in the near future at whatever auto show they announced the N20 at? I hope not, but I think all of the NA engines are going away, both I4 and I6. They were talking about a 1.5L 3-cylinder turbo as well, which I guess would replace the NA I4 engines.
It appears to be so, although the fact that they've updated the N53 powered 530i sold in some parts of the world does provide a tiny glimmer of hope.

For right now, the new 1.6L I4 turbo replaces the naturally aspirated 2L I4. Later, the 1.5L I3 will probably take over the position occupied by the 1.6L I4, including in the next Mini as I understand it.
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      07-04-2011, 01:46 PM   #42
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I still want to know why they're stretching the N20 to 240hp but keep the N55 at 300hp .. the equivalent HP/L would have the 3.0T at 360.. which seems unimaginable given how prone to problems the 3.0T/TT's seem to be. What has changed with the 2.0T? Is it fundementally different so that it can run at that high HP/boost? Elsewhere someone pointed out the boost on the N20 is significantly higher than on the N55.
What gives, if problems start appearing it'll be quite a mess.
I don't get why they seem so cautious on everything else, why are they going to 240HP on this 2.0T ? Have they 'solved' the previous limitations on turbo engines?
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      07-04-2011, 03:37 PM   #43
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I think 240hp is just the top spec engine. They might not run every car they throw this thing into at 240hp. And of course they want it for advertising/marketing purposes since the VAG 2.0T is making 200hp. 240hp sounds nice.

240hp/260tq out of a 2.0L turbocharged engine isn't really breaking any new ground, though. Mitsubishi has gotten 270hp/270tq or more out of their 4G63 engine in the Evo, which is a 2.0L also. The current engine in the U.S. is called a 4B11 with 290hp/300tq and still 2.0L. Subaru has had some pretty high spec 2.0/2.5L turbocharged Boxer engines too, but we've been getting just the 2.5L variants in the U.S. so I'm not sure what they've gotten their 2.0L engines up to in other markets. I know they've hit 300hp, though.

The base 740i in the U.S. is running the N54/N55 at 315hp/330tq now, although I'm not sure which engine it is, the N54 or the N55. I'm guessing the 5er will see those specs in a few years when they update.
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      07-04-2011, 03:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
I still want to know why they're stretching the N20 to 240hp but keep the N55 at 300hp .. the equivalent HP/L would have the 3.0T at 360.. which seems unimaginable given how prone to problems the 3.0T/TT's seem to be. What has changed with the 2.0T? Is it fundementally different so that it can run at that high HP/boost? Elsewhere someone pointed out the boost on the N20 is significantly higher than on the N55.
What gives, if problems start appearing it'll be quite a mess.
I don't get why they seem so cautious on everything else, why are they going to 240HP on this 2.0T ? Have they 'solved' the previous limitations on turbo engines?
It's to do with market positioning as well as the need to replace a number of previous models with one single engine.
A lot of 2.0t engines nowadays have torque of 350Nm (Saab & Audi), so they need the power to differentiate. 240ps on a 2.0t w/twin-scroll is not really a stretch.
The N55 doesn't need more power as the market currently doesn't require one, but it can easily do around 340ps as evidenced by the BMW Performance power kit.
120ps per litre isn't really a big specific power output for turbo engines nowadays, but it seems that it's easier to extract the extra power if the engine is small.
I do hope all 5ers will be eligible for EFV tax rebate after fitting start/stop function.
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