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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum 2012 BMW 528i Turbo 4-Cylinder First Drive Review by Insideline
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      10-07-2011, 09:26 AM   #23
epiphone3
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I don't get why BMW didn't offer up a direct-inject, naturally aspirated 6-cylinder power plant before going this route. Seems to me that, with DI, you can get the compression ratio up to 12 or 13:1 without difficulty and therefore get a nice bump in torque and efficiency and you keep the legend alive.

I am quite tempted by Mercedes' 3.5 liter CGI V6 and that is saying a lot as I am a die-hard BMW guy and have been since I was 4 years old! That V6 is a very nice power plant and still quite efficient.
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      10-07-2011, 11:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elias View Post
BMW made their reputation and success on the I-6 not the I-4 can't forget where your roots are and if you do you may forget where your going. I understand the rational behind it I just hope BMW doesn't get too greedy and
start eliminating the I-6 all together.
Actually their reputation was ORIGINALLY forged with the 4-banger....

...the E30 M3 (..and the subsequent 3-series road car that TRULY started it all)!
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      10-07-2011, 11:38 AM   #25
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I don't understand why so many folks are that bothered with the fact that it's a four banger.

I mean, sure BMW is known for their i-6, but times change. If they are able to get more power out of a smaller, lighter engine, that gets better fuel economy, that's a win/win. If oil one day hits $10/gallon or electric vehicles become the new norm do you think it makes economical sense for anyone for BMW to still produce an i-6? We might as well be still using carburetor with this mindset.

As long as the same or greater performance can be achieved, it's a-okay in my book.
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      10-07-2011, 11:56 AM   #26
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I dont get the "If oil one day hits $10/gallon"
I have a 6 cylinder BMW because i wanted to have a 6 cylinder BMW not because it better on gas then Merc or Audi
I dont care if its 33 or 35 mpg, i love my 6 cylinder BMW

By that rational why is BMW producing V8? because there are people that want them
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      10-07-2011, 12:21 PM   #27
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I don't see where the "turbo four" is gaining so much efficiency. I'm sure it's a great engine for the 1-series or 3-series, but couple miles a gallon savings don't seem to justify putting a four cylinder in a 50k luxury car. I'm happy I bought my 2011 528i and love the I6 engine.
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      10-07-2011, 01:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sieben1973 View Post
I dont get the "If oil one day hits $10/gallon"
I have a 6 cylinder BMW because i wanted to have a 6 cylinder BMW not because it better on gas then Merc or Audi
I dont care if its 33 or 35 mpg, i love my 6 cylinder BMW

By that rational why is BMW producing V8? because there are people that want them
I understand what you're saying, and I plan on getting a 335 next time around when the new coupes launch because that's what I prefer, but I think wanting a 6 cylinder because it's a 6-cylinder isn't a good enough argument for BMW to ignore the probably larger number of folks who buy BMWs and don't care about what's under the hood.

I'm not saying that BMW should simply forget about the performance of their cars to appeal to the general public, but what I am saying is that we enthusiasts should not write off everything that doesn't fit in with the status quo of performance. If 20 years from now a 3-cylinder engine can produce the torque, power, performance of a 12cylinder, with 1/4 the weight and 10x the fuel economy, is it a bad thing? (Ignoring the weak sounding motor of course lol)

It's inevitable. Smartphones, tablets, computers, etc become more efficient at doing more than the previous version, so it is simply foolish to think that automobiles (which involve more technology than many other products we interact with) would be immune to this.
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      10-07-2011, 01:07 PM   #29
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The 2012 BMW 528i is a car with an unusual breadth of personality, ranging from comfortable econo-sedan to sporting four-door. And this efficient new twin-turbo four allows it to pull off these character switches with conviction. Yet it's not a car of split personality. The satisfying way in which it gels makes it easy to understand why this is the best-selling sedan in its class, worldwide.

Why is it that people always get the twin-power engine confused with twin-turbo.....?
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      10-07-2011, 01:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyte3k View Post
I understand what you're saying, and I plan on getting a 335 next time around when the new coupes launch because that's what I prefer, but I think wanting a 6 cylinder because it's a 6-cylinder isn't a good enough argument for BMW to ignore the probably larger number of folks who buy BMWs and don't care about what's under the hood.

I'm not saying that BMW should simply forget about the performance of their cars to appeal to the general public, but what I am saying is that we enthusiasts should not write off everything that doesn't fit in with the status quo of performance. If 20 years from now a 3-cylinder engine can produce the torque, power, performance of a 12cylinder, with 1/4 the weight and 10x the fuel economy, is it a bad thing? (Ignoring the weak sounding motor of course lol)

It's inevitable. Smartphones, tablets, computers, etc become more efficient at doing more than the previous version, so it is simply foolish to think that automobiles (which involve more technology than many other products we interact with) would be immune to this.

This is probably one of the more sensible, rational posts in this thread.
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      10-07-2011, 01:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyte3k View Post
I understand what you're saying, and I plan on getting a 335 next time around when the new coupes launch because that's what I prefer, but I think wanting a 6 cylinder because it's a 6-cylinder isn't a good enough argument for BMW to ignore the probably larger number of folks who buy BMWs and don't care about what's under the hood.

I'm not saying that BMW should simply forget about the performance of their cars to appeal to the general public, but what I am saying is that we enthusiasts should not write off everything that doesn't fit in with the status quo of performance. If 20 years from now a 3-cylinder engine can produce the torque, power, performance of a 12cylinder, with 1/4 the weight and 10x the fuel economy, is it a bad thing? (Ignoring the weak sounding motor of course lol)

It's inevitable. Smartphones, tablets, computers, etc become more efficient at doing more than the previous version, so it is simply foolish to think that automobiles (which involve more technology than many other products we interact with) would be immune to this.

You are probably right, but i think BMW should offer both engines and faze the one out slowly.
Choice is GOOD
If i wanted an efficient 4 cylinder i would want 520d (which i can not buy in Canada)
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      10-07-2011, 01:54 PM   #32
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Interesting review. Hard to get the logic of the economy when the mileage gain is only 2 mpg. If you can afford the car the mpg gain is insignificant. I would rather have the smooth 6 along with the likely overall lower maintenance costs.
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      10-07-2011, 02:33 PM   #33
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If you don't like it, then pony up for the 535.


Quit your complaining.
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      10-07-2011, 02:48 PM   #34
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um...
"And this efficient new twin-turbo?!?!!?!?!?!?! four allows it to pull off these character switches with conviction"

Nice typo.

I'm loving the F10 from design and now to the engine choices.
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      10-07-2011, 02:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Actually their reputation was ORIGINALLY forged with the 4-banger....

...the E30 M3 (..and the subsequent 3-series road car that TRULY started it all)!
I understand what your saying about the E30 M3, but how many I-6 has BMW sold compared to the I-4 M// version or not. Its the I-6 that has taken BMW to the heights they are today, they've built their reputation on the I-6, it has been their bread and butter not the I4.
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      10-07-2011, 08:23 PM   #36
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I think those that are posting that people should not care if its an inline 6 just for the sake of being an inline 6. I totally agree pure performance numbers on paper can easily favor the FI car but nobody that has driven a 255hp N52 engine (my only experience) would know exactly why we are bothered by this.

Power delivery from a small turbo engine is SO SO much different than the linear power of an inline 6. Now some people appreciate the extra low end grunt and prefer more torque down low. This goes for the 535 too. However anyone who has been more a traditional bmw fan, appreciates that long, steady climbing power that keeps pulling harder and harder up until 7k or whatever the redline is. This was the magic of M cars until this last generation.

Second thing that I think people overlook is the sound. Clearly bmw thinks sound is important given what they are doing with the new M5 and their exhaust soundtrack deal.

I loved to listen to the I6 rev to 7k. Loved the downshifts of it. Loved every sound it made. Was so unique and the I4 or n54/55 engine do not sound the same. NA engines have characteristics that are sometimes more intangible because on paper it does not tell the whole story.

So point is that I don't think people want the I6 just for the sake of it being an I6 but rather the unique, less tangible/objective factors such as power delivery and sound.

Anyone who has driven an n55/n54 car knows that the car falls flat on its face after 6k RPMS and instead of building more and more power up to redline, it falls off quicker and quicker after 5k. Its fast forsure but does not have the same deliver of the less powerful NA cars. Not everyone is all about pure numbers.

With that said my S65 V8 sounds amazing and delivers up to 8400 just like the NA i6 did. Will definetly need to hang onto this one
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      10-07-2011, 09:06 PM   #37
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The only possible reason i can think of for BMW to go the "i4+turbo" route for the base models is cost of manufacture. For ages, the automotive industry used to price their cars according to the no of cylinder and engine capacity rather than just pure performance. There must be some reason behind it.
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      10-08-2011, 02:57 AM   #38
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Should be labelled a 520i
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      10-08-2011, 10:04 AM   #39
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It just seem worth it. I'm not saying that a cars worth is based on cylinders, but someone who can afford a 55k car could care less about getting 1mpg better. It's like what, driving 10 miles farther per tank? Lol.
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      10-08-2011, 10:26 AM   #40
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Why so much focus in the article about fuel savings? It is only saving 1mpg and only gets 34 mpg on the highway, you can save 1 mpg in your current BMW by accelerating gently, the fact is: If you own a high powered BMW, you do not ‘gently’ accelerate, I sure don’t.

What I would love to see them do is offer the 520d here in NA, the 2011 520d gets 72.4 mpg and if anyone is actually looking at the fuel efficiency stickers when buying in this range - that would be their niche car. Add an ‘eco pro’ button on to the 520d and it may actually get pressed a few times.

When I am looking to buy in this class I am not looking at fuel efficiency but for the build and material quality, feel of power and engine note, this engine may just sour the last two, only a test drive will tell.

From 2008: Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d

2011 520d specs

Last edited by Glim; 10-08-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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      10-08-2011, 11:22 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaze View Post
The 2012 BMW 528i is a car with an unusual breadth of personality, ranging from comfortable econo-sedan to sporting four-door. And this efficient new twin-turbo four allows it to pull off these character switches with conviction. Yet it's not a car of split personality. The satisfying way in which it gels makes it easy to understand why this is the best-selling sedan in its class, worldwide.

Why is it that people always get the twin-power engine confused with twin-turbo.....?
Clearly this is a typo and he meant "twin-scroll turbo".

The performance of this 4 cylinder is very impressive. I use to be uneducated and irrationally biased towards V8 engines and raw performance and sound. Then, I realized the "feel" of a car with any given powertrain is simply determined by it's torque curve. If a company like BMW can can engineer an engine with less tailpipe emissions (don't forget, there's alot more to emissions than a simple miles per gallon rating) which supplies the vehicle with greater acceleration potential than the other engine, then I think they just did you a service. Government regulations on emissions are tighter than ever right now. Car manufactures are havin to meet average emissions standards based on their entire fleet of vehicles. With that said, the easiest way to decrease average emissions ratings for an entire fleet is to decrease the emissions ratings in the segment where your highest volume of sales exists. Every car manufacture is affected by these stringent regulations--BMW is just always a step or two ahead of everyone else when it comes to powertrain. I admire the way they have avoided letting regulations take the fun and performance out of engines. Efficient dynamics is a fitting motto for this company. "Efficient" for the world. "Dynamic" for the driver. No other company has married those two words more effectively than BMW.

A person is kind of like a still object--a stopped car, for example. Most of us are fine with being stopped and when someone comes along and tries to move or change us, we are stubborn and resistive. We are an object at rest which tends to stay at rest. It requires a lot of force to get us to move, but once we get moving, the force required to move us decreases and we eventually end up at a new location where we can stop and get comfortable until the next change comes along and overcomes our stubborness.

Go drive the car when it's time to replace your current one and see how it feels. If you can't get over the sound, then ask for an M5 soundtrack to play in it, or spend a little extra money and get the I6 option. The real thing here is most people don't care. We who have performance and sound at the top of our priority list are a minority. Most BMW drivers care about status, and maybe to a some degree, performance, but the only sound they are listening to is pumping out their iPod through the killer audio system in their new car.

This article here seems to sum up the typical BMW owners concern for what makes their car move...
http://wot.motortrend.com/bmw-80-per...rive-7976.html
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      10-08-2011, 11:52 AM   #42
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Beat that. It's what I enjoy MOST about my BMW.

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      10-08-2011, 01:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Clearly this is a typo and he meant "twin-scroll turbo".

The performance of this 4 cylinder is very impressive. I use to be uneducated and irrationally biased towards V8 engines and raw performance and sound. Then, I realized the "feel" of a car with any given powertrain is simply determined by it's torque curve. If a company like BMW can can engineer an engine with less tailpipe emissions (don't forget, there's alot more to emissions than a simple miles per gallon rating) which supplies the vehicle with greater acceleration potential than the other engine, then I think they just did you a service. Government regulations on emissions are tighter than ever right now. Car manufactures are havin to meet average emissions standards based on their entire fleet of vehicles. With that said, the easiest way to decrease average emissions ratings for an entire fleet is to decrease the emissions ratings in the segment where your highest volume of sales exists. Every car manufacture is affected by these stringent regulations--BMW is just always a step or two ahead of everyone else when it comes to powertrain. I admire the way they have avoided letting regulations take the fun and performance out of engines. Efficient dynamics is a fitting motto for this company. "Efficient" for the world. "Dynamic" for the driver. No other company has married those two words more effectively than BMW.

A person is kind of like a still object--a stopped car, for example. Most of us are fine with being stopped and when someone comes along and tries to move or change us, we are stubborn and resistive. We are an object at rest which tends to stay at rest. It requires a lot of force to get us to move, but once we get moving, the force required to move us decreases and we eventually end up at a new location where we can stop and get comfortable until the next change comes along and overcomes our stubborness.

Go drive the car when it's time to replace your current one and see how it feels. If you can't get over the sound, then ask for an M5 soundtrack to play in it, or spend a little extra money and get the I6 option. The real thing here is most people don't care. We who have performance and sound at the top of our priority list are a minority. Most BMW drivers care about status, and maybe to a some degree, performance, but the only sound they are listening to is pumping out their iPod through the killer audio system in their new car.

This article here seems to sum up the typical BMW owners concern for what makes their car move...
http://wot.motortrend.com/bmw-80-per...rive-7976.html
This shows you are still pretty naive. It is still not possible to replicate a torque curve of a V8 with a ttv6 or the curve of an I6 with a TTI4.

That was my entire point if you read my post. The fact is that the torque curve and delivery of the I6 was TOTALLY different and very linear with hp peaking at redline. The TT enines tend to have HP peaks much much earlier and then have 2k worth of dead rpms.

Like I said, some people like these low end grunt TT motors which is fine and a totaly different issue. I am not saying one is better than than other but they sure as heck are not "similar" in anythin but on paper hp rating.

Same with the m3 current V8 or the e60 m5 V10 compared to the new TT v8. Sure the new v8 makes more power but delivers it in a totally different way and they are nothing alike aside from both being in the 5-- hp range.
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      10-08-2011, 01:46 PM   #44
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Beat that. It's what I enjoy MOST about my BMW.

Not that I do not think the 330i e90 is a great car and worthy of keeping forever, but a the 330i's 0-60 is not exactly its strong point and sorry to say but the I4TT would likely eclipse that number (compared to the 328 with similar hp).

That was my point-the I4TT may perform better but the feeling of it in doing so is so much worse and different.
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