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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum WHY Does "Auto Start/Stop" Default to ON ?
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      12-11-2011, 08:43 PM   #1
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WHY Does "Auto Start/Stop" Default to ON ?

I have a new 2012 535.

I hope that BMW changes this. Personally, I do not like the way it feels and I am

SURE it puts excessive wear and tear on the Engine components.

I would REALLY prefer that it default to "OFF"

How do you feel ?

Joseph
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      12-11-2011, 08:57 PM   #2
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I have a 2011 so it's not something I have to deal with, but I thought I read someplace that you can permanently turn it off?
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      12-11-2011, 08:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
I have a new 2012 535.

I hope that BMW changes this. Personally, I do not like the way it feels and I am

SURE it puts excessive wear and tear on the Engine components.


I would REALLY prefer that it default to "OFF"

How do you feel ?

Joseph
I have been curious about that as well. It just doesn't seem natural for a normal combustion engine to start and stop all the time. What about in stop and go traffic for an 1.5hrs?
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      12-11-2011, 09:34 PM   #4
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NOPE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by umpqua5 View Post
I have a 2011 so it's not something I have to deal with, but I thought I read someplace that you can permanently turn it off?
It defaults to to on and you have to manually with it off every time... Annoying.

A Software update could easily change this.
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      12-11-2011, 09:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
It defaults to to on and you have to manually with it off every time... Annoying.
Before long,if certain individuals/groups have their way,it will be mandatory and it will somehow be impossible and/or illegal to turn it off.
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      12-11-2011, 10:51 PM   #6
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Serious Inquiries Only Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by listerone View Post
Before long,if certain individuals/groups have their way,it will be mandatory and it will somehow be impossible and/or illegal to turn it off.
But for now it isn't "Illegal"... I suppose you also believe the Media is controlled by "Liberals" and that FOX "NEWS" is "Fair and Balanced"

Meanwhile, I'd still like some opinions about this specific issue... perhaps we can arrange to petition BMW NA.

I would appreciate a serious reply to the specific, posted issue... if at ALL possible in this Forum.

Thanks In Advance,

Joseph
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Last edited by NYCE90DRIVER; 12-11-2011 at 11:39 PM.
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      12-12-2011, 07:21 AM   #7
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Well, listerone makes a very serious point.

Once the government gets its arms around this concept then the government may very well determine that car companies must have this option and it must always be enabled.

I think you owe listerone a serious apology. He did not deserve the attack on his political views.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by listerone View Post
Before long,if certain individuals/groups have their way,it will be mandatory and it will somehow be impossible and/or illegal to turn it off.
But for now it isn't "Illegal"... I suppose you also believe the Media is controlled by "Liberals" and that FOX "NEWS" is "Fair and Balanced"

Meanwhile, I'd still like some opinions about this specific issue... perhaps we can arrange to petition BMW NA.

I would appreciate a serious reply to the specific, posted issue... if at ALL possible in this Forum.

Thanks In Advance,

Joseph
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      12-12-2011, 08:04 AM   #8
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Mind Your Own Business and Stick to The Topic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Well, listerone makes a very serious point.

Once the government gets its arms around this concept then the government may very well determine that car companies must have this option and it must always be enabled.

I think you owe listerone a serious apology. He did not deserve the attack on his political views.
Who are you... The Miss Manners of the F10 Forum ?

I don't owe anyone an apology. His "Political Views" are irrelevant and have no place here. I asked a question about a specific issue and THAT is what should have addressed. BMW is the only one doing this right now and it has not been mandated by any Government. I am sick of people insinuating politics into everything. There are good and bad ways to be "Green"... and this is (at least with present technology) a BAD way... and BMW needs to know about it.
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      12-12-2011, 08:45 AM   #9
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I don't think this is about politics, but rather BMW's (and other manufacturer's) desire to try and be more efficient. Start-Stop technology is actually widley used in hybrid vehicles, so this is nothing new to the industry. You could make the argument that it might eventually be required by law, but really what is going to be required are efficiency thresholds. I would imagine it's up to the manufacturer as to how to achieve those levels.

I had a 2011 320d in Munich not too long ago that had the start-stop (and in a manual no less). It was a little odd at first, but once I got used to it I didn't mind it all that much. And that vehicle got the equivalent of 49mpg with 3 adults in the car, so whatever technology they're using must provide results, otherwise they wouldn't add the complexity.

As for the engine components, the specifics involved with the start-stop are designed for higher duty cycle operation. The starter, solenoids, and associated mechanical assemblies are considerably beefier than in normal starter applications. So to answer your question, they didn't simply add the feature to a stock car. The component were redesigned to handle the load.
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      12-12-2011, 08:52 AM   #10
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It's the best possible MPG setting, and the EPA....

The EPA ratings are set using the "best" possible scenarios. In order to qualify for certain breaks or not get gas guzzler fines BMW uses this setting. Auto stop/start and even comnfort mode have to be the first thing that comes on.

If you chnage that setting, the gov't doesn't come after you. But if BMW has Sport+ as the first setting, EPA would see worse MPG and the car would get some other tariffs put on it (is that part of CAFE or something like that??).

It's especially beneficial to all the NY cabbies that drive BMW's with this feature. Now they don't have to stop/start their car manually any more :-) Now if I could jsut find a cabbie driving a new f10!!

Somethng like that...
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      12-12-2011, 08:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
But for now it isn't "Illegal"... I suppose you also believe the Media is controlled by "Liberals" and that FOX "NEWS" is "Fair and Balanced"

Meanwhile, I'd still like some opinions about this specific issue... perhaps we can arrange to petition BMW NA.

I would appreciate a serious reply to the specific, posted issue... if at ALL possible in this Forum.

Thanks In Advance,

Joseph
Joseph,

The reason you have Stop Start is because BMW (as well as all other manufactuers) is being forced to adopt higher fuel economies. Because BMW still strives to be a high performance brand, they have the huge task of having to design for horsepower, yet reach those increasisngly higher fual mileage figures. This is the very reason for their migration to turbo charging, adopting more gear ratios for transmissions, direct injection, and now stop start. Although somewone may come out with an aftermarket fix to negate the Stop Start, it will not come from BMW. They have to do this, and will likely be seen on all cars within the next few years. I agree that it must be a pain to defeat this every time and wonder myself if this has a long term affect on the engine. Knowing BMW, they have probably done their homework on this so have at the very least installed a more robust starter.
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      12-12-2011, 09:08 AM   #12
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BMW MUST KNOW their customers HATE THIS "FEATURE"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghueser View Post
Joseph,

The reason you have Stop Start is because BMW (as well as all other manufactuers) is being forced to adopt higher fuel economies. Because BMW still strives to be a high performance brand, they have the huge task of having to design for horsepower, yet reach those increasisngly higher fual mileage figures. This is the very reason for their migration to turbo charging, adopting more gear ratios for transmissions, direct injection, and now stop start. Although somewone may come out with an aftermarket fix to negate the Stop Start, it will not come from BMW. They have to do this, and will likely be seen on all cars within the next few years. I agree that it must be a pain to defeat this every time and wonder myself if this has a long term affect on the engine. Knowing BMW, they have probably done their homework on this so have at the very least installed a more robust starter.
Agreed... but those of us who despise this "feature" should have a voice. I have been doing some internet research and have not found ONE owner yet who is in favor of it. BMW NEEDS to know this.
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Last edited by NYCE90DRIVER; 12-12-2011 at 09:18 AM.
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      12-12-2011, 09:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
I have been internet research and have not found ONE owner yet who is in favor of it. BMW NEEDS to know this.
Well, I wouldn't call an internet forum search scientific. That's like saying "I went to a BMW enthusiast GTG and didn't find one person who liked the stock ride height".
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      12-12-2011, 10:11 AM   #14
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"Scientific ??"

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Originally Posted by vdubturbo View Post
Well, I wouldn't call an internet forum search scientific. That's like saying "I went to a BMW enthusiast GTG and didn't find one person who liked the stock ride height".
I didn't say my research was "scientific" Nor does it need to be. WHAT don't you understand ?

"THOSE WHO HAVE THE FEATURE DO NOT SEEM TO LIKE OR APPROVE OF IT"

Including 2 owners and 1 SA that I personally spoke to while waiting in the service Department at Hassel BMW in Freeport.

Is that clear enough ?
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      12-12-2011, 10:31 AM   #15
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This is all about CAFE standards. How this technology affects the car's long term durability is of no concern to BMW. They realize their cars are high maintenance and that people are willing to drink the Kool Aid. As long as it works during the warranty period, that's all they care about. They want you flipping into a new car every few years, there's no money for a manufacturer or dealer in older high mileage cars.
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      12-12-2011, 10:53 AM   #16
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I think you should by happy you can actually turn it off.
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      12-12-2011, 11:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
How this technology affects the car's long term durability is of no concern to BMW.
Oh, I don't agree with that at all. If a brand develops a reputation as being unreliable beyond a lower threshold than average (say 50k miles as the warranty implies vs 100k) then the residual values of the vehicles drop. The drop in residuals makes leasing less appealing for new BMW buyers b/c lease values are determined partially on the estimated residual value. And so begins the cycle. Last time I checked, people still bought used/pre-owned BMWs.

Per my statement above, the pertinent vehicle systems were re-engineered to account for the higher duty cycle (read: wear & tear).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER
I didn't say my research was "scientific" Nor does it need to be. WHAT don't you understand ?

"THOSE WHO HAVE THE FEATURE DO NOT SEEM TO LIKE OR APPROVE OF IT"

Including 2 owners and 1 SA that I personally spoke to while waiting in the service Department at Hassel BMW in Freeport.

Is that clear enough ?
Wow, calm down. I UNDERSTAND you perfectly. And I understand you to be making a half-thought through statement and wanting to deliver it to BMW as fact. Go ahead, call them up and say youdon't like it. There's nothing wrong with that. And if you want to start a petition, I wish you the best of luck. That's a good method too. But making a bold statement like "THOSE WHO HAVE THE FEATURE DO NOT SEEM TO LIKE OR APPROVE OF IT" when you've only spoken to 3 people doesn't hold water for me.
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      12-12-2011, 11:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
BMW is the only one doing this right now and it has not been mandated by any Government.
I agree with your assessment of the Auto start/stop feature but your conclusion above , in my opinion, is probably wrong.
Have you noticed the increase in sticker gas mileage on the '12 over the '11 535? I mean, it's the same engine! So, what's up with that?
Probably due to some perceived gas savings coming from the addition of the Auto-Start/stop feature. My guess is that if BMW allows the Auto start/stop feature to be driver selectable to permanently Off, they would not, by EPA rules ("the government"), be allowed to advertise that MPG increase.
The reason I'm lead to that conclusion is because the M3 has also recently had an auto start/stop feature installed. There was, however, no increase in advertised MPG over models of previous years with the same engine. I believe that's the case because, in the M3, the feature can be permanently disabled by the driver.
I feel the same way you do about the effects of the feature on engine wear and would enthusiastically petition BMW to allow it to be permanently turned off by the driver. But you need to be prepared for what your up against.
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      12-12-2011, 03:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER View Post
Agreed... but those of us who despise this "feature" should have a voice. I have been doing some internet research and have not found ONE owner yet who is in favor of it. BMW NEEDS to know this.
Agreed, you should have a voice and would be worthwhile for you to send BMW a note on this. I remember seeing one of the Top Gear episodes where they were driving the Porcshe Panamera. It had Stop Start and Hammond thought it was ridiculous. I think everyon on this Forum agrees with that sentiment.
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      12-12-2011, 05:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghueser View Post
Agreed, you should have a voice and would be worthwhile for you to send BMW a note on this. I remember seeing one of the Top Gear episodes where they were driving the Porcshe Panamera. It had Stop Start and Hammond thought it was ridiculous. I think everyon on this Forum agrees with that sentiment.
I assumed that every self-respecting enthusiast would agree too...but
judging from some of the argumentative, contrary responses, perhaps not.
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      12-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #21
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BMW is likely relying on this system for its EPA and CO2 output ratings in various countries. It seems altogether obvious that this would not be possible if the system could be defeated and didn't default to "On". I haven't driven a car equipped with Auto Start/Stop (should we call it "ASS"?) yet, but I've driven any number of hybrids and find their systems totally unobjectionable. I expect I would not feel differently about BMW's ASS. Except for the cumbersome name. What seems missing from all these discussions is WHY you owners don't like it. (I'm discounting your predictions about the effect on reliability, which I think have no basis in fact.) What's wrong with it?
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      12-13-2011, 06:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
They want you flipping into a new car every few years, there's no money for a manufacturer or dealer in older high mileage cars.
You have it in one.

Car's, computer hardware, computer software, telephones, clothes ... all have a finite useful life span, implicitly designed and built into their very substance - at least to the "first owner" anyway.

I wanted to add wife to the list .. I think I resisted doing that. Not sure though.
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