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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Watch the 2012 528i Turbo 4 (N20) Take on Its Older 6 Cylinder on the Road and Dyno
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      04-30-2012, 12:51 AM   #67
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Accept a change is somehow difficult for some people. Just like when Win98 came out, they believe win95 was the best, Win98 grow on them when XP came out and so on....same for Win7
To them, the world is just stepping backward.
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      04-30-2012, 07:33 AM   #68
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Accept a change is somehow difficult for some people. Just like when Win98 came out, they believe win95 was the best, Win98 grow on them when XP came out and so on....same for Win7
To them, the world is just stepping backward.
I don't like Win ME and Win Vista that's for sure

The smoothness of the I6, you have to own it to love it. Is like I brought the 523 and then test drive the 520, yes it does have the same punch, not much big difference that I would notice. It does consume less fuel and does all the same thing my 523 does but the engine noise... feels like the car will break down or piston snap if I push too hard.

But to each their own, if you couldn't afford the 35i then you have to live with the 20i or 28i.
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      04-30-2012, 08:38 AM   #69
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I don't like Win ME and Win Vista that's for sure

The smoothness of the I6, you have to own it to love it. Is like I brought the 523 and then test drive the 520, yes it does have the same punch, not much big difference that I would notice. It does consume less fuel and does all the same thing my 523 does but the engine noise... feels like the car will break down or piston snap if I push too hard.

But to each their own, if you couldn't afford the 35i then you have to live with the 20i or 28i.
I can see valid reasons for wanting the N20 over the N55 in certain cars. The fuel economy is probably the best argument for the 5-series. If driven conservatively, the N20 should sip fuel.

In something like a 1-series, I think the N20 is a great fit. BMW should make an ultralight version of the 1-series with some significant weight saving measures, then drop the N20 in it.

I remember when I went from a VR6 GTI to a 2.0T GTI. I really missed the smoothness and sound of the VR6, but I there was plenty to appreciate about the 2.0T. The turbo I4 had more low end pull than the VR6, and the weight savings made the car feel much lighter on its feet. That can't be overstated. The difference in turn-in (just one measure) between my VR6 GTI and my 2.0T GTI was day and night.

The N20 is 22 lbs lighter than the N52, but I can't find good information on the weight of the N55. I'd love to know the actual difference.
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      04-30-2012, 08:44 AM   #70
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But to each their own, if you couldn't afford the 35i then you have to live with the 20i or 28i.
Define "afford".

Its interesting because someone in the conversation always has to say this, so I am curious what you think "afford" means.
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      04-30-2012, 09:01 AM   #71
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Define "afford".

Its interesting because someone in the conversation always has to say this, so I am curious what you think "afford" means.
Troof!

The common definition seems to be "I can afford it if I can make the payment".

I prefer not to buy the most car I can "afford" (based on the common definition). My car payment is less than 10% of my annual income (actual number is around 5% of my annual income), and I love it. From a financial perspective, I feel more responsible and less stressed as a result of living within my means.
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Last edited by bradleyland; 04-30-2012 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Corrected percentages
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      04-30-2012, 10:56 AM   #72
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I prefer not to buy the most car I can "afford" (based on the common definition). My car payment is less than 1% of my annual income,
LOL, 1%, thats a good one. I spend more than that on mods.
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      04-30-2012, 01:02 PM   #73
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LOL, 1%, thats a good one. I spend more than that on mods.
Whoops! That should have been less than 10%. The actual number is somewhere around 5%, but most recommendations I've read say you should spend no more than 11%, which is why I picked 10. Not trying to sound like big balla Probably 90% of the members on this site make more than me.
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      04-30-2012, 05:35 PM   #74
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most recommendations I've read say you should spend no more than 11%, which is why I picked 10.
Yeah, but most of those people who recommends spending less than 11% on their car usually drives sensible cars like Toyota
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      05-01-2012, 12:12 PM   #75
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Define "afford".

Its interesting because someone in the conversation always has to say this, so I am curious what you think "afford" means.
Just like what I said if you can afford it then buy it, use it in a sense that you think fit. I couldn't say what you think affordable is as some will spend 10%, some will spend 50% of their monthly income on car payment.

For us in HK, the price difference of a 20i vs a 35i with similar spec except for the engine is about 25,000 USD.

For me 25,000 USD spend elsewhere seem more reasonable then investing in an engine because of more power and better sound.

Is a luxury for me in that sense, hence I couldn't afford it.
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      05-01-2012, 12:19 PM   #76
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I can see valid reasons for wanting the N20 over the N55 in certain cars. The fuel economy is probably the best argument for the 5-series. If driven conservatively, the N20 should sip fuel.

In something like a 1-series, I think the N20 is a great fit. BMW should make an ultralight version of the 1-series with some significant weight saving measures, then drop the N20 in it.

I remember when I went from a VR6 GTI to a 2.0T GTI. I really missed the smoothness and sound of the VR6, but I there was plenty to appreciate about the 2.0T. The turbo I4 had more low end pull than the VR6, and the weight savings made the car feel much lighter on its feet. That can't be overstated. The difference in turn-in (just one measure) between my VR6 GTI and my 2.0T GTI was day and night.

The N20 is 22 lbs lighter than the N52, but I can't find good information on the weight of the N55. I'd love to know the actual difference.
Well let's just say fuel consumption isn't on the top of my list right now, I can live with the difference in fuel consumption of the two engine as I don't need to drive 50 miles to work everyday.
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      05-01-2012, 01:30 PM   #77
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But in Hong Kong, all you do is sit in traffic all day, what difference does it make if you have 4, 6 or 8 cylinder?
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      05-01-2012, 09:05 PM   #78
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But in Hong Kong, all you do is sit in traffic all day, what difference does it make if you have 4, 6 or 8 cylinder?
There's traffic in every major cities around the world ie. Boston, NYC, Chicago and LA I think is the baddest in terms of traffic jam. I do some freeway driving as well and I don't use my car to commute so I don't sit in traffic all the time so your point of sitting in traffic all the time is invalid or it's maybe a fact that you have never been in our city or maybe you haven't got a clue of what a real traffic jam is about (try driving in downtown Bangkok or cities like Mumbai, Jakarta and Sao Paulo)

Also the 4 cylinder N20 will drive comfortably at speed in excess of 140km/h, that's more than the posted speed limit on most US highways 55mph.

From what I read, most of the 550 is sold in the States, even our friends from Germany who drives in the Autobahn with no posted speed limit buy less 550 then folks from the States.

Having said that, let me ask you the same questions you think you still need the V8 or anything that's more then 4 cylinder in the states?
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      05-02-2012, 08:00 AM   #79
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There's traffic in every major cities around the world ie. Boston, NYC, Chicago and LA I think is the baddest in terms of traffic jam. I do some freeway driving as well and I don't use my car to commute so I don't sit in traffic all the time so your point of sitting in traffic all the time is invalid or it's maybe a fact that you have never been in our city or maybe you haven't got a clue of what a real traffic jam is about (try driving in downtown Bangkok or cities like Mumbai, Jakarta and Sao Paulo)

Also the 4 cylinder N20 will drive comfortably at speed in excess of 140km/h, that's more than the posted speed limit on most US highways 55mph.

From what I read, most of the 550 is sold in the States, even our friends from Germany who drives in the Autobahn with no posted speed limit buy less 550 then folks from the States.

Having said that, let me ask you the same questions you think you still need the V8 or anything that's more then 4 cylinder in the states?
Not too many open freeway in Hong Kong, at least not like here in the States where there are hundreds of miles of open road.
If I live in Bangkok or cities like Mumbai, Jakarta and Sao Paulo, I would ride a bike or a motorcycle
I am sure the 4 cylinder N20 will drive comfortably at speed in excess of 140km/h, but itís not how it drives at that speed, itís how a car accelerate up to that speed. A Camry can drive comfortably at speed of 140km/h.
Most people in Europe cannot afford the gas bill for the 550i, come to think of it, I canít either
Nobody needs a V8, they just want it. The engine note, smooth acceleration and power on tap is what a luxury car is all about. personally, I think the N55 is the best compromise between power and fuel economy.
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      05-02-2012, 10:33 PM   #80
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Not too many open freeway in Hong Kong, at least not like here in the States where there are hundreds of miles of open road.
If I live in Bangkok or cities like Mumbai, Jakarta and Sao Paulo, I would ride a bike or a motorcycle
I am sure the 4 cylinder N20 will drive comfortably at speed in excess of 140km/h, but itís not how it drives at that speed, itís how a car accelerate up to that speed. A Camry can drive comfortably at speed of 140km/h.
Most people in Europe cannot afford the gas bill for the 550i, come to think of it, I canít either
Nobody needs a V8, they just want it. The engine note, smooth acceleration and power on tap is what a luxury car is all about. personally, I think the N55 is the best compromise between power and fuel economy.
Not too many open freeway, but enough to open up your car

Anyways the key point is want as you said, I want to have a car and I want it in 6 cylinders, I don't like the sound of the new N20 although they have similar performance and will accelerate to speed and have enough power on demand just like the N55. Plain and simple, nothing to do with traffic because I used to drive the E46 323i in Canada and I feel it's enough for me.

But in your question you were saying we in HK don't need anything with more then 4 cylinder because of bad traffic. Nobody needs a car with more then 4 cylinder for that matter, So what is it you are really trying to say? Wants or needs? That's two different questions.

Everyone defines luxury a little differently, for me luxury is about noise level in the cabin, comfort, appointments and finishing. I really don't care about engine noise because I would probably be reading the paper or resting with my eyes shut and I don't really care if the car have enough power on tap as long as it's adequate because if you have a luxury car you should get a driver to drive it I would call my F10 an executive saloon. As you said you think the N55 is luxury and the best compromise between performance and fuel economy, that's ok but is what you think is best for your use but don't place your values on someone just because you think it is like that.

I have a bike in HK also, is for fun only not for commuting so I wouldn't want to ride in those city, is just no fun. You might do it, but I wouldn't
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      05-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #81
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Not too many open freeway, but enough to open up your car

Anyways the key point is want as you said, I want to have a car and I want it in 6 cylinders, I don't like the sound of the new N20 although they have similar performance and will accelerate to speed and have enough power on demand just like the N55. Plain and simple, nothing to do with traffic because I used to drive the E46 323i in Canada and I feel it's enough for me.

But in your question you were saying we in HK don't need anything with more then 4 cylinder because of bad traffic. Nobody needs a car with more then 4 cylinder for that matter, So what is it you are really trying to say? Wants or needs? That's two different questions.

Everyone defines luxury a little differently, for me luxury is about noise level in the cabin, comfort, appointments and finishing. I really don't care about engine noise because I would probably be reading the paper or resting with my eyes shut and I don't really care if the car have enough power on tap as long as it's adequate because if you have a luxury car you should get a driver to drive it I would call my F10 an executive saloon. As you said you think the N55 is luxury and the best compromise between performance and fuel economy, that's ok but is what you think is best for your use but don't place your values on someone just because you think it is like that.

I have a bike in HK also, is for fun only not for commuting so I wouldn't want to ride in those city, is just no fun. You might do it, but I wouldn't
Here in the Northeast US and New York City area, there are a lot of short highway onramps here. I drove a 5 series with the N20 engine in sport mode trying to merge onto highway traffic going at about 70 MPH. Honestly, I had to floor the 528xi in order to merge into the highway traffic. The 535xi merge onto the same short on ramp a lot easier.
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      05-03-2012, 03:28 PM   #82
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The 535xi merge onto the same short on ramp a lot easier.
"I'm merging"

That's what I tell my girlfriend every time I sprint up an on-ramp at WOT
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      05-03-2012, 09:42 PM   #83
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Here in the Northeast US and New York City area, there are a lot of short highway onramps here. I drove a 5 series with the N20 engine in sport mode trying to merge onto highway traffic going at about 70 MPH. Honestly, I had to floor the 528xi in order to merge into the highway traffic. The 535xi merge onto the same short on ramp a lot easier.
I once rented a Ford Explorer while on vacation in Chicago, their on ramp is quite short I agree, but it's enough to merge into traffic without flooring if you plan ahead and signal. Mind you I was carrying 6 passenger including my 3 year old niece so I will not drive like a mad man or swerve into traffic like a race car driver and though that car have 6 cylinders, I doubt all of them are working as well as the ones found in my bimmer.

I think people on the road there are ok as long as you respect that there are other user on the same roads. All of them drive above speed limit but that does not poses a problem for me merging. Again, this is my experience, I couldn't say that will happen to everyone of us but it does sounds like a driver thing to me

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"I'm merging"

That's what I tell my girlfriend every time I sprint up an on-ramp at WOT
Totally understand what you are saying
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      05-04-2012, 09:27 AM   #84
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I once rented a Ford Explorer while on vacation in Chicago, their on ramp is quite short I agree, but it's enough to merge into traffic without flooring if you plan ahead and signal. Mind you I was carrying 6 passenger including my 3 year old niece so I will not drive like a mad man or swerve into traffic like a race car driver and though that car have 6 cylinders, I doubt all of them are working as well as the ones found in my bimmer.

I think people on the road there are ok as long as you respect that there are other user on the same roads. All of them drive above speed limit but that does not poses a problem for me merging. Again, this is my experience, I couldn't say that will happen to everyone of us but it does sounds like a driver thing to me
The Northeast is a bit different than Chicago, especially NYC. The highway system is pretty old and sometimes the onramps are an after thought. Drivers here during ruash hour tailgate on a regular basis. If I sit tight on an onramp and wait for a wide opening, I will be sitting there a long time and there would a line of cars honking behind me. Believe me, you need to just force your way in sometimes and the 528xi was not quite up to the task.
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      05-04-2012, 09:45 AM   #85
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The Northeast is a bit different than Chicago, especially NYC. The highway system is pretty old and sometimes the onramps are an after thought. Drivers here during ruash hour tailgate on a regular basis. If I sit tight on an onramp and wait for a wide opening, I will be sitting there a long time and there would a line of cars honking behind me. Believe me, you need to just force your way in sometimes and the 528xi was not quite up to the task.
I have never had an issue accelerating quickly in my measly 528, and have never felt like I needed more power for daily driving. Seriously, if I had any more power I would be crashing into the cars in the lane. I have also seen several 535 and 550s that are unable to merge, so I am going to say that driver skill has a lot to do with it.

Just saying from an actual 528i owner's perspective...
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      05-05-2012, 03:49 PM   #86
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I have never had an issue accelerating quickly in my measly 528, and have never felt like I needed more power for daily driving. Seriously, if I had any more power I would be crashing into the cars in the lane. I have also seen several 535 and 550s that are unable to merge, so I am going to say that driver skill has a lot to do with it.

Just saying from an actual 528i owner's perspective...
Sure. People get by every day driving cars like the Peugeot 107 with 70 HP too I think it's silly to suggest that you "need" more than 240 HP in a 5-series. Anyone making that argument is delusional. That won't stop some of us from wanting it though.
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      05-07-2012, 09:42 AM   #87
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I have never had an issue accelerating quickly in my measly 528, and have never felt like I needed more power for daily driving. Seriously, if I had any more power I would be crashing into the cars in the lane. I have also seen several 535 and 550s that are unable to merge, so I am going to say that driver skill has a lot to do with it.

Just saying from an actual 528i owner's perspective...
I certainly did not mean to offend any 528i owners here, I am just trying to share my experience with 528i. Everybody sets different priorities for their car. Personally, I think even the 535i can use another 20-30 HP, but that is just me. When I buy a sport luxury sedan, I want quick acceleration. I may not use it all the time, but itís nice to know itís on tap when I need it.
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      05-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #88
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I certainly did not mean to offend any 528i owners here, I am just trying to share my experience with 528i. Everybody sets different priorities for their car. Personally, I think even the 535i can use another 20-30 HP, but that is just me. When I buy a sport luxury sedan, I want quick acceleration. I may not use it all the time, but itís nice to know itís on tap when I need it.
You certainly wont offend me. I maintain, through real life experience and by the way I drive, that the N20 has plenty of acceleration and power on tap for every situation on the road. If someone thinks its lacking power, then they need to get schooled on driving.

Sure, one can always get more power, but justifying it as a "need" instead of a "want" is pure BS imo
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