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      03-29-2018, 08:46 AM   #1
Sp123
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520d timing chain

Hi all

Anyone had any timing chain issues on their f10?

How did you come to notice and what was the course of action required?

And how is it now?

Sp
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      04-03-2018, 08:16 AM   #2
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I had it on a 3 series and was done under warranty cost was 1800

I could hear a chain like rattle when inside it sounded like it was coming from the passenger side
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      04-03-2018, 08:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
I had it on a 3 series and was done under warranty cost was £1800

I could hear a chain like rattle when inside it sounded like it was coming from the passenger side
Hi JLR

Is the chain supposed to sound like it's not moving smoothly and is it a persistent sound or does it come and go.

I was listening out the other day and is a cold start a good or bad time to hear out for it.

What mileage for you on and did you do Interim oil changes?

Thanks

Sp
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      04-03-2018, 08:25 AM   #4
JLR1969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Hi JLR

Is the chain supposed to sound like it's not moving smoothly and is it a persistent sound or does it come and go.

I was listening out the other day and is a cold start a good or bad time to hear out for it.

What mileage for you on and did you do Interim oil changes?

Thanks

Sp
It happened at about 2 years and 25,000 miles

It was more evident when the car was cold, car was serviced as standard nothing extra as it was a company car.

Not sure how to describe the sound other than a rattle.

I took a BMW tech for a drive and he said straight away it was the timing chain and tensioner.

I think the issue is more with the tensioner than the chain
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      04-03-2018, 11:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Hi JLR

Is the chain supposed to sound like it's not moving smoothly and is it a persistent sound or does it come and go.

I was listening out the other day and is a cold start a good or bad time to hear out for it.

What mileage for you on and did you do Interim oil changes?

Thanks

Sp
Assuming you have a 520d with the N47 engine, I'd get it checked out asap as they do have a propensity to leave the owner with a huge bill when it eventually fails. If yours is the 520d, just do a search for N47 timing chain and there will be plenty of hits.
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      04-04-2018, 02:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Hi JLR

Is the chain supposed to sound like it's not moving smoothly and is it a persistent sound or does it come and go.

I was listening out the other day and is a cold start a good or bad time to hear out for it.

What mileage for you on and did you do Interim oil changes?

Thanks

Sp
It happened at about 2 years and 25,000 miles

It was more evident when the car was cold, car was serviced as standard nothing extra as it was a company car.

Not sure how to describe the sound other than a rattle.

I took a BMW tech for a drive and he said straight away it was the timing chain and tensioner.

I think the issue is more with the tensioner than the chain
Thanks for your reply JLR

Did you notice the noise from inside or outside the car.

I noticed a noise like a chain but it comes and goes?


Can't believe it's at such low mileage as well as the correct service intervals.

Did you ever drive the car hard at all?

I always try the warm the car up a little before I set off especially with the winter we have had.


Sp
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      04-04-2018, 02:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrashton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Hi JLR

Is the chain supposed to sound like it's not moving smoothly and is it a persistent sound or does it come and go.

I was listening out the other day and is a cold start a good or bad time to hear out for it.

What mileage for you on and did you do Interim oil changes?

Thanks

Sp
Assuming you have a 520d with the N47 engine, I'd get it checked out asap as they do have a propensity to leave the owner with a huge bill when it eventually fails. If yours is the 520d, just do a search for N47 timing chain and there will be plenty of hits.
Hi there

Yes I have the n47 engine

I thinks it's all the torque extracted from the 4 pot possibly putting a strain on the belt or tensioner.

I've heard a slight sound and it comes and goes

I'll ask them to have a look and ask them to document it if they say they can't hear anything especially if it builds up to the chain eventually.

I'm planning on keeping the car long term so definitely want it sorted.

It's ok 45k at the moment

Full service at dealer as the idrive.


Sp.
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      04-04-2018, 02:21 PM   #8
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@JLR1969

Did you notice an improvement after the fix. I presume the engine sounded smoother; how was the drive thereafter?

Thanks

Sp
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      04-04-2018, 03:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Thanks for your reply JLR

Did you notice the noise from inside or outside the car.

I noticed a noise like a chain but it comes and goes?


Can't believe it's at such low mileage as well as the correct service intervals.

Did you ever drive the car hard at all?

I always try the warm the car up a little before I set off especially with the winter we have had.


Sp
Drove the car hard a lot as it was a company car, it was evident from inside the car.
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      04-04-2018, 03:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
@JLR1969

Did you notice an improvement after the fix. I presume the engine sounded smoother; how was the drive thereafter?

Thanks

Sp
After the fix the performance was the same it was just silent and sounded as it should.
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      04-04-2018, 05:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Thanks for your reply JLR

Did you notice the noise from inside or outside the car.

I noticed a noise like a chain but it comes and goes?


Can't believe it's at such low mileage as well as the correct service intervals.

Did you ever drive the car hard at all?

I always try the warm the car up a little before I set off especially with the winter we have had.


Sp
Drove the car hard a lot as it was a company car, it was evident from inside the car.
I totally understand and if I had it as a company car i would also...... all the time.
Even From cold starts to not waiting for a few minutes when switching off.

As it's my own I've really looked after it. Ie from cold starts and switching off and in terms of just generally flooring..... so I'll be gutted if it's the timing chain. Might as well have driven it hard.

The shame in the matter is this used to be true of the Ferraris 348 of the time, owners were scared to drive them hard incase the engine 'popped' ......... on a modern day Ferrari you can drive it out the showroom straight to the track.

On a modern day mass produced German saloon I'm surprised you have to be gentle with it...

Thanks for your reply jlr

How's the rekindled spirits with your 5 going?

Sp.
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      04-05-2018, 03:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
I totally understand and if I had it as a company car i would also...... all the time.
Even From cold starts to not waiting for a few minutes when switching off.

As it's my own I've really looked after it. Ie from cold starts and switching off and in terms of just generally flooring..... so I'll be gutted if it's the timing chain. Might as well have driven it hard.

The shame in the matter is this used to be true of the Ferraris 348 of the time, owners were scared to drive them hard incase the engine 'popped' ......... on a modern day Ferrari you can drive it out the showroom straight to the track.

On a modern day mass produced German saloon I'm surprised you have to be gentle with it...

Thanks for your reply jlr

How's the rekindled spirits with your 5 going?

Sp.
Happy with it but still looking at an M5, wont buy one though.

How old is your car?
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      04-05-2018, 04:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
I totally understand and if I had it as a company car i would also...... all the time.
Even From cold starts to not waiting for a few minutes when switching off.

As it's my own I've really looked after it. Ie from cold starts and switching off and in terms of just generally flooring..... so I'll be gutted if it's the timing chain. Might as well have driven it hard.

The shame in the matter is this used to be true of the Ferraris 348 of the time, owners were scared to drive them hard incase the engine 'popped' ......... on a modern day Ferrari you can drive it out the showroom straight to the track.

On a modern day mass produced German saloon I'm surprised you have to be gentle with it...

Thanks for your reply jlr

How's the rekindled spirits with your 5 going?

Sp.
Happy with it but still looking at an M5, wont buy one though.

How old is your car?
Lol that M5 bug is a bad one

I keep looking knowing I'm not buying one

Can't help

Would love a cp model

Individual colour and interior would be a bonus

Maybe when they come down in price but then they will all be high milers and would then want the f90 with four wheel drive esp after the winters we've had...... and saves me putting winters on and off each year oh well

Until then it's a 520d life lol

Mine is a 2011 520d
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      04-05-2018, 05:48 AM   #14
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I'm on 99980 miles this morning and running strong, oil changes done by dealer with one in-between by my trusted indi

Albeit mine is an LCI with the supposedly 'fixed' iteration of the n47
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      04-05-2018, 06:47 AM   #15
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I looked into this couple of years as my one is 2011 with the Performance pack from BMW, I believe a date exist, i.e. the N47 engines produced before mid 2011, my one was June 2011 so assumed good but you never know.

I also will love to know how to identify the issue, I am at 120k km.
If you serach this forum arround 2011 few posting with details, but if you in doubt take it to your main dealer and ask for the check to be doucmented for future records.
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      04-05-2018, 08:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apples12 View Post
I'm on 99980 miles this morning and running strong, oil changes done by dealer with one in-between by my trusted indi

Albeit mine is an LCI with the supposedly 'fixed' iteration of the n47
That's good mileage you got out of it and the in between oil change can help.

I think the long life oil change interval is too far apart to my liking as oil is oil and you need good quality and fresh oil circulating.

I'll look into interim changes.

I think yours being an lci you're ok!

Sp
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      04-05-2018, 08:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin mustang View Post
I looked into this couple of years as my one is 2011 with the Performance pack from BMW, I believe a date exist, i.e. the N47 engines produced before mid 2011, my one was June 2011 so assumed good but you never know.

I also will love to know how to identify the issue, I am at 120k km.
If you serach this forum arround 2011 few posting with details, but if you in doubt take it to your main dealer and ask for the check to be doucmented for future records.
I have a build date of March 2011. So I don't know where that lies in terms of the revised n47.

Some say that the f10 altogether does not have the timing chain problems as did the e60 n47 and some say that the problems are there as it's the same engine carried over.

Evidently it is as owners have experienced the same e60 issues on the f10.

Disappointing that a big marque such high as bmw did this and not rectify on a new model launch.

One of the reasons I have keep my extended warranty and main dealer service for when this problem arises I have a leg to stand on.

I will most definitely ask the dealer to log my visit and mark in the the future to carry out further check.

I have just had the major oil service and the health check reported everything well. Don't know how thorough these are but will use this as well as leverage to the case should it arise.

Sp
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      05-08-2018, 05:45 PM   #18
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The F10 and and also 2011 520d are known to have the problem, check this video on new Tesla owner who moved from a 520d 2011 after having the chain problem, so out of order BMW never recalled cars impacted

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      05-13-2018, 09:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
I have a build date of March 2011. So I don't know where that lies in terms of the revised n47.

Some say that the f10 altogether does not have the timing chain problems as did the e60 n47 and some say that the problems are there as it's the same engine carried over.

Evidently it is as owners have experienced the same e60 issues on the f10.

Disappointing that a big marque such high as bmw did this and not rectify on a new model launch.

One of the reasons I have keep my extended warranty and main dealer service for when this problem arises I have a leg to stand on.

I will most definitely ask the dealer to log my visit and mark in the the future to carry out further check.

I have just had the major oil service and the health check reported everything well. Don't know how thorough these are but will use this as well as leverage to the case should it arise.

Sp
The issue with these modern engines is that the timing chain is now at the rear of the engine due to pedestrian impact safety reasons so doing any check can only involve listening to the engine and that is very subjective unless the timing chain and tensioners have already failed. Due to its position there are no manual checks that can be carried out as far as I'm aware without removing the engine from the car.
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      05-14-2018, 05:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrashton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
I have a build date of March 2011. So I don't know where that lies in terms of the revised n47.

Some say that the f10 altogether does not have the timing chain problems as did the e60 n47 and some say that the problems are there as it's the same engine carried over.

Evidently it is as owners have experienced the same e60 issues on the f10.

Disappointing that a big marque such high as bmw did this and not rectify on a new model launch.

One of the reasons I have keep my extended warranty and main dealer service for when this problem arises I have a leg to stand on.

I will most definitely ask the dealer to log my visit and mark in the the future to carry out further check.

I have just had the major oil service and the health check reported everything well. Don't know how thorough these are but will use this as well as leverage to the case should it arise.

Sp
The issue with these modern engines is that the timing chain is now at the rear of the engine due to pedestrian impact safety reasons so doing any check can only involve listening to the engine and that is very subjective unless the timing chain and tensioners have already failed. Due to its position there are no manual checks that can be carried out as far as I'm aware without removing the engine from the car.
Hi

I have spoken with the master tech at the dealership.

He stated the exact same reason regarding position for safety.

He also said the only way to check as you said is to take the engine out.

He heard a slight noise but nothing major. He said if anything with the miles and type of driving I do he said it should be fine and to stick with the extended warranty as the manufacturer may give a goodwill on cost.

Other than that I'm left to chance really as he said it could last 10,000 or another 50,000.

That didn't give me much hope so just trying not to think about it and hope for the best.

He also told me not to keep the car idling for long periods or warm up in the winter for 20mins before driving off. He said just start drive, which I found odd. I've also let the cars warm up in the winter before driving. He said oil pressure could increase. Anyone got any ideas on this.

Sp
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      05-14-2018, 05:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp123 View Post
Hi

I have spoken with the master tech at the dealership.

He stated the exact same reason regarding position for safety.

He also said the only way to check as you said is to take the engine out.

He heard a slight noise but nothing major. He said if anything with the miles and type of driving I do he said it should be fine and to stick with the extended warranty as the manufacturer may give a goodwill on cost.

Other than that I'm left to chance really as he said it could last 10,000 or another 50,000.

That didn't give me much hope so just trying not to think about it and hope for the best.

He also told me not to keep the car idling for long periods or warm up in the winter for 20mins before driving off. He said just start drive, which I found odd. I've also let the cars warm up in the winter before driving. He said oil pressure could increase. Anyone got any ideas on this.

Sp
The technician is correct, cars should be started and driven rather than left to idle to warm up. When we drove carburettor engined cars many moons ago they were really inefficient at providing the correct fuel/air ratio to account for the cold and cars could stall once driven off as a result. Allowing the car to idle could counter this. With the advent of electronic fuel injection there are sensors that monitor and the ECU adjusts the fuel/air ration accurately so stalling due to the cold and incorrect mixture is a thing of the past. A car heats up quicker if it is driven straight away causing less wear on an otherwise cold engine.

With your engine, I'd suggest intermediate oil changes in addition to the manufacturer stipulated ones to prolong the life of the timing chain further.
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      05-15-2018, 07:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrashton View Post
The technician is correct, cars should be started and driven rather than left to idle to warm up. When we drove carburettor engined cars many moons ago they were really inefficient at providing the correct fuel/air ratio to account for the cold and cars could stall once driven off as a result. Allowing the car to idle could counter this. With the advent of electronic fuel injection there are sensors that monitor and the ECU adjusts the fuel/air ration accurately so stalling due to the cold and incorrect mixture is a thing of the past. A car heats up quicker if it is driven straight away causing less wear on an otherwise cold engine.

With your engine, I'd suggest intermediate oil changes in addition to the manufacturer stipulated ones to prolong the life of the timing chain further.
+1 On both points.

Get the engine working, to warm it up in the most efficient way. Just let it stabilise for a few seconds and it's ready to go. Remember diesels are much slower to warm on idle, due to being more efficient.

There is opinion in the motor trade that the long service intervals are contributing to the timing chain issue. Hard to prove, but as revision of parts hasn't solved the problem, oil change intervals must be considered as a factor.

Plus a driving style using predominantly low revs won't help, as it appears a lot of the issue is stretched chains. Torque pulses (more dominant in the 4-cylinder diesels) could be another contributing factor.
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