2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications Don't waste your money on Down Pipes For now
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-13-2014, 10:44 AM   #1
badblack550xi
Captain
 
badblack550xi's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 550xi 2013
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NJ

Posts: 714
iTrader: (0)

Don't waste your money on Down Pipes For now

Looks like Down pipes will give you lose of power because the ECU cannot be coded for down pipes... so unless you want more sound at current moment you will lose power.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________


A couple of weeks ago *********** published Dynojet results from BMS (Burger Tuning) showing the baseline difference between an N63 V8 in a 550i and the updated N63TU V8 rated at 45 more horsepower in a 2014 550i. The N63TU showed less power than the N63 V8 even though BMW rated it at 45 less horsepower. The caveat is that the 2014 550i had aftermarket catless downpipes and those seemed to be causing a power loss.

BMS did further testing on a 2014 550i that had the stock exhaust pieces in place and the results below 4500 rpm were about the same. Above this RPM though the car without downpipes showed more power. The power once tuned however is about the same between the two.

Here is a Dynojet graph comparing a 2011 N63 based 550i and a 2014 N63TU based 550i both with stock downpipes. The N63TU shows a smoother torque curve and a good amount more torque especially from 2700 to 4500 rpm:



Here are the N63TU tuned values on the 550i with the stock downpipes (transmission shifting issues prevented dyno measurements before 4000 rpm from being picked up:



Here is the tuned N63TU with aftermarket downpipes from before showing slightly more torque although slightly less peak horsepower than the car without aftermarket downpipes:



What is the explanation? BMS states the factory ECU is reducing boost in both stock and tuned form above 5000 rpm. Why? That is anyone's guess. BMW seems to have designed to the ECU to reduce its boost target in that RPM range. It is going to take further tuning to eliminate this and at that point aftermarket downpipes should show gains but as of right now the ECU is reducing boost stock, tuned, downpipes, etc.


source ***********.
__________________

2013 F10 550ixdrive Carbon black metalic / BMS Stage 2 / AR Down Pipes/ 3" Custom Exhaust/ M5 mufflers and diffuser. WR 11.943 @117.940
badblack550xi is offline  
+1
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 11:12 AM   #2
Mike@N54Tuning.com
Lieutenant General
 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 13,919
iTrader: (83)

I think this only applies to the n63tu engine?

Mike
__________________
BEST PRICES GUARANTEED - New N54 Performance Line Downpipes!!
JB4 **G5** On Sale - FREE Shipping Click Me - NEW JB4(N55) & DCI's $95.00
NEW F30 N20/N55 ER Downpipes and Chargepipes - BMS OCC (On Sale)
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 11:24 AM   #3
badblack550xi
Captain
 
badblack550xi's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 550xi 2013
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NJ

Posts: 714
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
I think this only applies to the n63tu engine?

Mike
id say both i did not see any large gains with my catted down pipes besides the sound and a little better 1/4 time nothing segnificant... id say all people need is Stage 1 BMS or stage 2 BMS and keep everything else stock unless they are after sound.
__________________

2013 F10 550ixdrive Carbon black metalic / BMS Stage 2 / AR Down Pipes/ 3" Custom Exhaust/ M5 mufflers and diffuser. WR 11.943 @117.940
badblack550xi is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 01:19 PM   #4
alextremo
Captain
 
Drives: F10 550i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA

Posts: 916
iTrader: (3)

I agree, have been holding off since another member posted before and after dyno showing loss of HP and TQ a couple years back.

The only ones showing gains sith downpipes installed are AA, on their dyno.
alextremo is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 01:23 PM   #5
combatbmw
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2014 550i M Sport
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: SoCal

Posts: 380
iTrader: (0)

Yes this is my car with catless.
My car is with Evolution racewerks who built the catless downpipes. They will be putting it on the dyno for more testing this week. Untuned. Because tuned and untuned my car was losing boost and power.

They really think the car is spooling too fast causing ecu to freak out.

At this point. I'm going to keep her he down pipes.. Power loss or not. I can't feel the difference.. Sound is too amazing

And wait for a tune that takes care of this. Because there is no way in hell a car should lose power with bigger downpipes and No cats.

I'll keep you guys posted on dyno numbers.

We are doing catted stock dyno runs and catless this week.
combatbmw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 01:52 PM   #6
badblack550xi
Captain
 
badblack550xi's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 550xi 2013
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NJ

Posts: 714
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatbmw View Post
Yes this is my car with catless.
My car is with Evolution racewerks who built the catless downpipes. They will be putting it on the dyno for more testing this week. Untuned. Because tuned and untuned my car was losing boost and power.

They really think the car is spooling too fast causing ecu to freak out.

At this point. I'm going to keep her he down pipes.. Power loss or not. I can't feel the difference.. Sound is too amazing

And wait for a tune that takes care of this. Because there is no way in hell a car should lose power with bigger downpipes and No cats.

I'll keep you guys posted on dyno numbers.

We are doing catted stock dyno runs and catless this week.
You might need a custom Tune that can tweak your editions.
__________________

2013 F10 550ixdrive Carbon black metalic / BMS Stage 2 / AR Down Pipes/ 3" Custom Exhaust/ M5 mufflers and diffuser. WR 11.943 @117.940
badblack550xi is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2014, 11:27 PM   #7
gragi
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 535i xDr F10 M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 148
iTrader: (0)

I just had my catted DP installed AR brand and combined with the AFE Scorcher I am positive I can feel the difference. Car is fast, very fast actually. I did a comparison(test drive) last week between a 2014 335i stock and mine, I am telling you night and day. I like mine and I don't think there is any loss of power here. (No Dyno).
__________________
1996 E36 328i Touring
2000 E46 328Ci
2004 E46 M3 Dinan Exhaust
2011 535xDrive F10 AFE CATBACK, AFE SCORCHER, AFE Performance Air Filter, H&R, AR Down Pipe, ER Charge Pipe.
gragi is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-20-2014, 01:09 AM   #8
scott135i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
scott135i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 550xi
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC Metro

Posts: 1,764
iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gragi View Post
I just had my catted DP installed AR brand and combined with the AFE Scorcher I am positive I can feel the difference. Car is fast, very fast actually. I did a comparison(test drive) last week between a 2014 335i stock and mine, I am telling you night and day. I like mine and I don't think there is any loss of power here. (No Dyno).
He (BBlack) is talking about downpipes on a 550 not a 535...

But anyhow, now that he has full exhaust he will probably say they're worth the money for sound alone.
__________________
2013 BMW 550xi Sedan (AW/Black): Current
2011 BMW 335d Sedan (Blue Water/Black) : Retired
2008 BMW 135i Coupe (BSM/Red) & (White/Black) Retired
2007 BMW Z4 M (White/Red): Retired
2003 & 2006 Cadillac CTS : Retired
scott135i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2014, 03:34 AM   #9
combatbmw
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2014 550i M Sport
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: SoCal

Posts: 380
iTrader: (0)

Yes I've confirmed catless dps making car run .75 - 1 points Richer the areas car losses power around 5500 rpms car with catless downpipes around 14af. Stock car near 13.0.

The end. Hope Terry makes a stage 2 that should fix the issue
combatbmw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST