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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications JB4 N55 stutter bet. 4-5K rpm in cold weather / warming up...
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      12-23-2012, 11:36 PM   #1
Alan l.
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JB4 N55 stutter bet. 4-5K rpm in cold weather / warming up...

I've had my JB4 installed on my N55 535 for a few months now without any issues. The car has only 1800 miles on it and the tune has been good until this weekend. It's also much colder this weekend so not sure if it has anything to do with it. During warm up if I give the car slightly more throttle the car stutters and sounds like the exhaust is backfiring when it hits over 4k rpm and then goes back to normal. I made the car do it several times and so far only seems to do it before the car is fully warmed up.

Has anyone else notice issues in cold weather? It sounds and feels like the car is cutting boost rapidly when it happens.

Alan
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      12-23-2012, 11:58 PM   #2
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Alan,

I remember asking Terry a question about the tune a few month back and he mentioned that tune is not active until the engine hits a certain temp.

If this happens during a cold start I don't think the tune is even on yet.
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      12-24-2012, 07:19 PM   #3
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I read the tune is not active below 160 deg and above 280 deg on oil temp.
JB4 S2 is installed on my car
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      12-25-2012, 12:31 AM   #4
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The way i see it the JB4 still intercepts all the sensor signals regardless. It may not send the command to increase boost but who knows if thats true too. I don't buy everything Terry says to be honest.

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      12-25-2012, 01:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
The way i see it the JB4 still intercepts all the sensor signals regardless. It may not send the command to increase boost but who knows if thats true too. I don't buy everything Terry says to be honest.

Alan

I agree with you Alan. If we don't get more support and updates on the JB4 soon I'll be switching to COBB once it come out.
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      12-25-2012, 10:13 PM   #6
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Too bad Cobb already said support for the F10 will be a LONG ways out. This is coming from their Bmw hacker Rob Irish himself.

I'm even tempted to try out the Hartge tune for 1300 but I got a lovely dented door for christmas because someones shopping cart decided to ram itself into my fockin door causing a dent too deep for PDR. Now i have to repaint my 3 month old car

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      12-30-2012, 08:33 PM   #7
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Dude... door dents... I only drove my 2010 535 13K in 2.5 years, yet that car had more scrapes, scratches, and little dents than any car I've ever owned... and it was always while I was away from the car. I feel your pain. fortunately, I know a good scuff, bump, scrape artist who made me like new for ok price.

anyway... regarding your original 4K backfire observation:
I haven't noticed backfire, but I have had a stutter at high RPMs in the past couple of months with the JB4. Particularly if I'm going up hill, steadily pushing the accelerator, then goose it just a tiny bit around 3.5K, and once or twice it stumbled, smoothed out, then a big surge. This sounds a little different than yours, but may stem from same source.

To your point about Hartge.... I have to say, I sorta wish I'd shelled out the extra bux for the Hartge. I don't want to bash Burger, particularly when I don't know the 100% facts behind my car's behavior, but the JB4, while occasionally pretty cool... I dunno, something's not quite right, and the manner in which Burger puts out info and handles support is a little bit too much like amateur hour for my liking. (C'mon... firmware updates and docs via posts on the fricken "N54 Tech" forum? Seriously? Some things you have to actually troll through the damn forum to find, not even linked off their main page? ).

If I could have found more people with experience with Hartge, I probably would have... but I guess most people don't like being the lab mouse with their 60K+ cars .

<EDIT> I should add, I'm not necessarily griping about the behavior of the JB4 for F10, because I knew the deal when I bought it (it was "beta", they don't have ready access to an F10). My problem is with how they communicate info and the haphazard way all of their instructions/etc. come across. They're very responsive to email (hell, I just got a response on Sunday before New Years within 10 minutes). But still... there's a lack of continuity that gives me pause.

I might be blindly biased by perception of Hartge's price point, but my gut suggests they're more... "together" than Burger. </EDIT>

Last edited by rjm98119; 12-30-2012 at 08:53 PM.
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      12-30-2012, 11:37 PM   #8
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^^ i completely agree with your thoughts. I've felt your stutter before but only once.

Terry's business caters mainly to younger guys with the 335 that only care about XXX hp gained and that my car is faster than yours. All of his tunes are "beta" honestly. Thats his big disclaimer when things acts funky in customers cars. Support for the F10 has been a joke thus far. I mean the tune works and it does make the car more fun to drive but it isn't without compromise of some sort. Once i get my damn door sorted i will most likely give the Hartge tune a shot next spring. Maybe even though it on a dyne with the JB4 and then with the Hartge if i have the time.

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      01-11-2013, 06:07 PM   #9
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      01-11-2013, 11:32 PM   #10
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Tune

Not surprised that a solution introduced so early would have issues.

When all the major tuners shy away from the platform, I'm skeptical when anyone can come out with something that claims to do what others can't. Perhaps Hartge has figured it out but we likely won't know until several of us take the dive and live with the tune for an extended period of time.

While Dinan is overpriced, I tend to think that they take the most care in "cracking the code" which ultimately leads the other tuners to take notice and then raise the bar. Like it or not, we should take cues from those companies that have been in the BMW game for a long time. Should Dinan offer a solution, I will then start to take notice. Not saying I will buy the Dinan tune but this will show me that someone with skin in the game, via its warranty, has figured out how to effectively manipulate the 535 F10 platform.

With all that having been said, if we wanted more TQ and HP, we should have opted for the 550i.
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      01-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crl8474 View Post
With all that having been said, if we wanted more TQ and HP, we should have opted for the 550i.
Only when it has above 440hp, the current power levels aren't worth the extra money in my book.
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      01-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #12
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Only when it has above 440hp, the current power levels aren't worth the extra money in my book.

you think so?

i think the 500 + torque is worth it
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      01-12-2013, 02:30 PM   #13
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you think so?

i think the 500 + torque is worth it
Which 550i has that much torque, stock 2013 has 400hp and 450 lb/ft tq?

Hopefully the 2014 550i LCI has the higher hp engine, then I'll get that car. 445hp and 480 lb/ft tq stock sounds nicer to me.
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      01-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm98119 View Post
Dude... door dents... I only drove my 2010 535 13K in 2.5 years, yet that car had more scrapes, scratches, and little dents than any car I've ever owned... and it was always while I was away from the car. I feel your pain. fortunately, I know a good scuff, bump, scrape artist who made me like new for ok price.

anyway... regarding your original 4K backfire observation:
I haven't noticed backfire, but I have had a stutter at high RPMs in the past couple of months with the JB4. Particularly if I'm going up hill, steadily pushing the accelerator, then goose it just a tiny bit around 3.5K, and once or twice it stumbled, smoothed out, then a big surge. This sounds a little different than yours, but may stem from same source.

To your point about Hartge.... I have to say, I sorta wish I'd shelled out the extra bux for the Hartge. I don't want to bash Burger, particularly when I don't know the 100% facts behind my car's behavior, but the JB4, while occasionally pretty cool... I dunno, something's not quite right, and the manner in which Burger puts out info and handles support is a little bit too much like amateur hour for my liking. (C'mon... firmware updates and docs via posts on the fricken "N54 Tech" forum? Seriously? Some things you have to actually troll through the damn forum to find, not even linked off their main page? ).

If I could have found more people with experience with Hartge, I probably would have... but I guess most people don't like being the lab mouse with their 60K+ cars .

<EDIT> I should add, I'm not necessarily griping about the behavior of the JB4 for F10, because I knew the deal when I bought it (it was "beta", they don't have ready access to an F10). My problem is with how they communicate info and the haphazard way all of their instructions/etc. come across. They're very responsive to email (hell, I just got a response on Sunday before New Years within 10 minutes). But still... there's a lack of continuity that gives me pause.

I might be blindly biased by perception of Hartge's price point, but my gut suggests they're more... "together" than Burger. </EDIT>
I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, but aren't you guys that are using the JB4 being lab rats anyway?

You hit the nail directly on the head when you said, "but I guess most people don't like being the lab mouse with their 60K+ cars ".

I've been trolling the threads all along regarding these various tune options (because I'm interested in a tune too) and following the buyer feedback and their experience. The more I read, and the more issues/problems that continue to arise, the more I keep thinking, "Wow these guys must have some really BIG balls (or deep pockets) to be experimenting with their engines this way".

It freaks me out even more when you add to it the "lack of support" issue. I mean, you have to send an email for help, guidance, questions or concerns?!?! And, what would happen if the tune damaged your engine? Send them an email? I just don't have the confidence that Burger is going to immediately step up and take care of you.

I understand the delimma though. Get your craving for a tune satisfied with a "quick fix" by accepting a less than desirable product immediately. Conversely, have patience and wait it out for a more reliable, proven and respected product like COBB or pay more now for a product like Hartge, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm98119 View Post
I might be blindly biased by perception of Hartge's price point, but my gut suggests they're more... "together" than Burger </EDIT>
A very reasonable point by observation alone. And, they have a phone number too!

Last edited by Andy H.; 01-12-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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      02-04-2013, 02:07 PM   #15
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Teaser from Terry

Just noticed that Terry is talking about a software update for the JB4 Stage 2 which is supposedly "significant"

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...t=16620&page=3

Might prove interesting .........
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