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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications My quest for serious power from my 535 continues
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      03-19-2016, 01:56 AM   #1
PJinCA
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My quest for serious power from my 535 continues

Here are my options as I see them so far:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-2014-BM...1T7bm2&vxp=mtr

Or, start looking seriously for an 8HP-90 which is used in the Dodge Hellcat, so (obviously) it can handle over 700 HP and over 740 lb ft.

I am not kidding, this is a consideration. We cannot make serious power with the stock 8HP45Z with it's anemic 340 hp limit.

Thoughts?
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      03-19-2016, 09:21 AM   #2
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Here are my thoughts. If you buy a Honda civic, you shouldn't expect it to win the next lemans. Same applies when you purchase a car from BMW with their second smallest power setup and expect it will compete with a 550i or M5. If you want that power level, you buy the 550i or M5, or be ready to invest a lot of money to be the underdog.

With that in mind, plenty of people (more on N54tech) are making 500+ on stock transmissions with a turbo swap and to my knowledge haven't had transmission issues. If you are going off the conservative OE specifications for the transmission, just remember GM used the 4L60 in everything that had a max torque rating of 350 ft lbs when just about EVERY vehicle they made exceeded that in stock form, many modifying cars to double the output. It isn't BMWs duty to make sure the parts on their car are safe for modification to your wants, but it is your duty to do your research before making modifications, or buy the car that meets your needs.
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      03-19-2016, 01:09 PM   #3
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I hear you, and I had the 550 before this car. I guess I was hoping that the F10 535 would be capable of matching the power numbers generated by the E60 535 (N54) with the stock trans. On the E60 platform it was fairly easy to take a 535 and generate more power than an M5 can. In the F10 the trans seems like the weak link, yes it is reliable, efficient, and overall sturdier than the 6HP that was on the E60. However, BMW chose the weakest possible model of this trans for the 535.

BTW, to replace my old 550 I did look at F10 550s. As I stated before, I have 3 friends that lemoned their 550s, and another that had $28k worth of work done last year under CPO + another $9k done this past January that had to be "good willed" by BMWNA on his 750. I love the V8, but it simply was not worth the headache for me. Considering this is my 3rd 5 series, I think I am pretty aware of each model's capabilities.
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      03-19-2016, 04:03 PM   #4
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Power good, arr arr arr
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      03-19-2016, 04:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
I hear you, and I had the 550 before this car. I guess I was hoping that the F10 535 would be capable of matching the power numbers generated by the E60 535 (N54) with the stock trans. On the E60 platform it was fairly easy to take a 535 and generate more power than an M5 can. In the F10 the trans seems like the weak link, yes it is reliable, efficient, and overall sturdier than the 6HP that was on the E60. However, BMW chose the weakest possible model of this trans for the 535.

BTW, to replace my old 550 I did look at F10 550s. As I stated before, I have 3 friends that lemoned their 550s, and another that had $28k worth of work done last year under CPO + another $9k done this past January that had to be "good willed" by BMWNA on his 750. I love the V8, but it simply was not worth the headache for me. Considering this is my 3rd 5 series, I think I am pretty aware of each model's capabilities.
To my understanding, the goal of the N55 was superior reliability, which in their minds meant ditch the older style twins for a twin scroll single. Unfortunately with a single turbo, to maintain street pleasure and get the turbo to spool quickly, it has to be relatively small, which killed the top end of it. In stock form, I really think the N55 cars are amazing as I had a 535i for about 6 months before going to the 550, but after finding out the next step for any power was $5,000, I just traded it.
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      03-19-2016, 04:12 PM   #6
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Well though what FenixMike is saying is true in terms of underdog I too am on a quest. There has been some new discoveries in the F10 series tuning world that are on the brink of release. As more of the F10 fall out of warranty we'll start seeing more demand for modding options. There's been a new development with torque maps for the 535 and testing will be complete in about a week. So stock hardware for the 535 may start producing some serious power finally. PJinCA is queued up to join us on the Dyno stage 1 retest. Not shortly after Stage 2 will be ready for testing that includes 3.5 map sensors and maps that scale accordingly. Stage 3 is in development.
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      03-19-2016, 05:01 PM   #7
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Don't listen to anybody, DO IT. I respect your efforts! And please keep us updated with pictures of the whole progress.
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      03-19-2016, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedoy
Don't listen to anybody, DO IT. I respect your efforts! And please keep us updated with pictures of the whole progress.
FenixMike isn't wrong, a more affordable and powerful platform is going to be the 550, M5 is different playing field. The N55 is putting some big numbers in the F30 world. There's a reason that the F10 N55 is not keeping up and it's been discovered. Again, we'll shall what the stock hardware can really do soon.
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      03-19-2016, 05:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sedoy View Post
Don't listen to anybody, DO IT. I respect your efforts! And please keep us updated with pictures of the whole progress.
I don't think anyone told him not to... If anything im encouraging him not to waste his money on hopes and dreams, and just get the turbo, downpipe and tune up front. Had that been available when I had my 535, I may have gone that route instead as I enjoyed the ridiculous fuel economy of the 535.
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      03-19-2016, 05:36 PM   #10
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I believe in the near future were going to see 535 F10's with upgraded turbos and DP/ Tune putting down 400/400. I'm already making 400 on the Tq side. Working on the horses now.
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      03-19-2016, 08:07 PM   #11
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I don't think this is an "underdog" thread, nor do I care about the 550's capabilities - I just had one. This is my personal quest to have a very fast, yet streetable car for my pleasure. Whether others enjoy it is irrelevant. I have built a Honda Accord that used to destroy Corvettes on the track, I have also had a Monte Carlo that ran 10 sec 1/4 miles time0s. Could I have gotten the V8? yes. Did I want to deal with the issues related to the N63? not at all. So I went with the 535. Now my mission is to make it as fun to drive as I want it to be. Nothing more nothing less.

Simple question I answered for me personally was:
The weak point for the 535 is the trans, as the link showed, I can get a beefier one for less than $2500.
Now, would I rather spend that, or the $9000 it takes to replace the 550s turbo oil lines when they go bad out of CPO? For me the answer was easy. When in doubt go for fun first
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      03-19-2016, 08:13 PM   #12
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I wasn't really talking about you, but people spend money on all sort of illogical things but if that makes them happy, it's all well spent money . Hey we live only once.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
I don't think anyone told him not to... If anything im encouraging him not to waste his money on hopes and dreams, and just get the turbo, downpipe and tune up front. Had that been available when I had my 535, I may have gone that route instead as I enjoyed the ridiculous fuel economy of the 535.
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      03-19-2016, 08:17 PM   #13
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I'm with you brotha, I want a 400rwhp F10 535. If you're looking for 500, I'm still supporting. Let the journey begin. I might add a 400rwhp that holds to at least 5500k
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      03-19-2016, 08:18 PM   #14
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LOL, hell, when I started building my Honda Accord for SCCA racing people thought I was crazy. "Why replace a perfectly good engine?" they asked. "because I can" was my response. I got a great deal on an Japanese H22A from a Prelude SH (225 HP stock in JDM trim), then I was able to get JUN engineering to sponsor it and provide the cylinder liners, forged crank, pistons, connecting rods, and cam shafts. Then I added a massive intercooler and a Garrett T34, a custom 6 speed gear box (used the same LSD that came with the Japanese Prelude engine just had Quaiffe make it a little stronger). Was it crazy? Sure. Was it more than slightly foolish? Sure. Did I spend more than I could have if I had gotten a better platform/car from the beginning? Debateable, it didn't cost me as much as most would think. The most important question: was it fun? HELL YEAH IT WAS!!!! Nothing better than seeing the look on a Vette (or any other muscle car) owners face when they got dusted by a pretty stock looking Honda Accord
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      03-19-2016, 09:08 PM   #15
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Granted, to non BMW owners, they can't tell the difference between an M5 and an M-sport 5 series, so making a 5er a "sleeper" is quite a bit harder than making one out of a Honda Accord. But the point is, if I am going to have this car for the near future, it will be made to be as fun as I can possibly make it.
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      03-19-2016, 11:08 PM   #16
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Great story, seems that you know what you doing, I look forward for your work. It seems that N55 started to get some decent support from tunes, but still can't compete to N54. Fortunately we have new ZF 8-speed tranny, which I find is a brilliant unit compared to old 6-speed auto for N54s. Good luck!


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
LOL, hell, when I started building my Honda Accord for SCCA racing people thought I was crazy. "Why replace a perfectly good engine?" they asked. "because I can" was my response. I got a great deal on an Japanese H22A from a Prelude SH (225 HP stock in JDM trim), then I was able to get JUN engineering to sponsor it and provide the cylinder liners, forged crank, pistons, connecting rods, and cam shafts. Then I added a massive intercooler and a Garrett T34, a custom 6 speed gear box (used the same LSD that came with the Japanese Prelude engine just had Quaiffe make it a little stronger). Was it crazy? Sure. Was it more than slightly foolish? Sure. Did I spend more than I could have if I had gotten a better platform/car from the beginning? Debateable, it didn't cost me as much as most would think. The most important question: was it fun? HELL YEAH IT WAS!!!! Nothing better than seeing the look on a Vette (or any other muscle car) owners face when they got dusted by a pretty stock looking Honda Accord
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      03-20-2016, 12:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedoy View Post
Great story, seems that you know what you doing, I look forward for your work. It seems that N55 started to get some decent support from tunes, but still can't compete to N54. Fortunately we have new ZF 8-speed tranny, which I find is a brilliant unit compared to old 6-speed auto for N54s. Good luck!
Thank you, I agree, the 8HP is an awesome trans. My only complaint is that BMW chose the weakest version for the 535. The 8HP70 that is used in the 550 is also used in things like Dodge Trucks (including diesels), so if it can handle the torque demands of a diesel, it should surely be capable of a modded 535. Then the only upgrade would be an 8HP90 - which is the trans used in the Dodge Challenger Hellcat. That would be fun, but I seriously doubt the N55 will ever be developed enough to generate the 740 lb ft of torque that trans is rated at.
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      03-20-2016, 01:40 AM   #18
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True, even Audi uses 8HP55 for A6 3.0 TFSI engine which is similar to N55, definitely bad decision by BMW, 8HP55 should have been the one.

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Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
Thank you, I agree, the 8HP is an awesome trans. My only complaint is that BMW chose the weakest version for the 535. The 8HP70 that is used in the 550 is also used in things like Dodge Trucks (including diesels), so if it can handle the torque demands of a diesel, it should surely be capable of a modded 535. Then the only upgrade would be an 8HP90 - which is the trans used in the Dodge Challenger Hellcat. That would be fun, but I seriously doubt the N55 will ever be developed enough to generate the 740 lb ft of torque that trans is rated at.
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      03-20-2016, 01:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
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True, even Audi uses 8HP55 for A6 3.0 TFSI engine which is similar to N55, definitely bad decision by BMW, 8HP55 should have been the one.
Completely agree, that should have been the minimum
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      03-21-2016, 09:28 AM   #20
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i posted this before as i thought about going this route but here's some info i got from PureTurbo upgrade for the 535.

Hi Gene,

Your turbo is different than the 135/335 turbo but we do have our STG2 available for your vehicle also.

First thing is no more 89, these engines crave octane so if you want to run pump gas only you need the highest octane you can find(91/93/100. JB4 is the easiest to tune on these vehicles. The stock fuel system is fine until you want to run higher quantities of ethanol. The higher the octane the more boost you can run and the more you will get out of the STG2 turbo. High flow cats or catless downpipes are another upgrade we recommend to get the most from the turbo.

Our turbo is 100% bolt on, no modification required. On 91 you can run 15-17psi which is around 420-450whp to redline. The addition of meth would put you over the 500WHP mark. The turbo is $2500 plus $775 core deposit.

-Charles
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      03-21-2016, 10:50 AM   #21
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Would be interesting to see the behavior of the car with a 550 or some other trans since the gearing ratios are different, do you plan to keep your transmission computer? You do know that these are part of the immobilizer system and the car wont move

If you keep your original computer its programmed for different gear ratios but it might be ok

Last edited by Secret_Asian; 03-21-2016 at 10:56 AM.
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      03-21-2016, 11:52 AM   #22
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I broke the ZF 8 speed in my 2011 550i. Reverse was noisy at 35000 miles, BMW replaced it with a remanufactured unit under warranty. Transmission is noisier lately on downshifts (60000 miles). I run BMS Stage 2 aggressive nearly all the time, and I give it multiple hard launches daily. I won't be surprised if I turn this one into a boat anchor as well. I have a dyno set up for next Thursday to check power and health, but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 460rwhp/535rwtrq.

If you plan on exceeding that long-term, the ZF might not be for you. Before you go all-in on the ZF, be sure it is going to be worth it. Not saying it's not possible, but after install and programming/coding, it might be a poor value if it can't get you where you want to go power-wise.
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