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      08-05-2019, 06:21 PM   #2
jonobro
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Drives: bmw f10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CA

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
Just did this job on the F10 this weekend. Here are a few notes...

I've been doing brake bleeding the old fashioned way for a couple of decades on various cars, Japanese and German, and most with MT so there was clutch bleeding too.

Overall, based on my experience with the F10:
  • You really want a power bleeder
  • You really want ISTA
  • You need more fluid than you might think (2L minimum, next time I'm ordering 3)

Some instructions from TIS that apply to my F10:

The most general doc: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-xdrive-lim_201104/repair-manuals/34-brakes/34-00-braking-check-ventilation/1VnXvjGCJ0

Bleeding brakes with DSC: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-xdrive-lim_201104/repair-manuals/34-brakes/34-00-braking-check-ventilation/1VncYvP97T

Possible special procedure if needed for rear brakes with parking brake: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-xdrive-lim_201104/repair-manuals/34-brakes/34-00-braking-check-ventilation/Cl8orLIE


I bought a Motive Powerbleeder just for this job after reading the page on ISTA. I read many posts on various forums for F-body BMWs and most people were reporting that they were experienced DIYers and their pedal softened after doing a traditional bleed, and got firm again only when ISTA was used as per the BMW procedure. For $80 I just went right from the get-go with the Motive.

(Mostly) following the ISTA procedure, which different slightly from the TIS procedure, it walked me through a pre-pre-bleed of all four corners. Then it told me to open LR for the "pre-bleed stage". It activated a DSC pump and pumped 0.4L out the bleeder in a 15 second procedure. Then it told me to open LF for pre-bleed and did similar, but lower quantity.

Then on the actual bleed round, 90-100 seconds per corner with ISTA "click to continue" at each step. During this stage the brake bleeders were open at each corner, one at a time, and the DSC-and-friends systems went through many different patterns of operation while the brake pedal was pressed every 5 seconds throughout the process based on ISTA instructions. There were all kinds of weird noises, different pumps and valves. Not a lot of fluid moved during this stage compared to the pre-pre-bleed, but maybe a good .25L or more. (I wasn't measuring) My collection bottle on the rear circuit had some noticeable brown crud in the bottom from the true bleed phase.

When it was all done I had very little of my 2L of starting fluid. To be on the safe side I might want 2.5L or so so that I wouldn't need to cut any corners if it took a while to run bubble free.

Based on how I observed this go, I wouldn't want to do it any other way than with a power bleeder plus ISTA+ (or equivalent Foxpro etc...). It was not just a simple "buzz" of the pump once while each bleeder was open. There was a LOT of DSC activity in many different patterns. On E46, E90, E39 cars I didn't ISTA bleed but made sure to cycle ABS lots in low traction situations in the winter so that all the fluid mixed.


One thing I wonder about, and where I did NOT follow the procedure.... I have always put a brick or board under my brake pedal when bleeding in order to limit pedal travel to stay within the normal range seen during braking. The wisdom imparted there is that the master cylinder is polished in the area of the stroke where most driving activity occurs, and it is rougher and may even have bumps, spurs or barbs in the deep areas where the pedal never goes (to the floor). The internet is full of people who bled the brake and then a week or two later figured out that their brake pedal was falling to the floor while they were stopped and they needed a new master cylinder. The idea is that the seal on the master cylinder piston was damaged by them pushing the pedal to the floor during bleeding and then it leaks.

The ISTA+ instructions said to pump the brake pedal "as far as it goes" every five seconds during the procedure. My "assistant" pumped it to the brick. It's possible that my brake pedal has a tiny bit more travel than before the operation, but the brakes work better. I would really love a high, rock-hard pedal but that's not really a 5-series design consideration.
Hey man I have some questions to ask about this procedure mind shooting me ur number ?!
Appreciate 0