[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I can truly tell that you know very little about F1. It isn't technology that makes a team better. It's people and application of technology. They are all mandated to use the same materials and many of the parts, which are listed, MUST be used. It isn't technology but, rather, creativity within the rules structure.

You are saying my data and details blind me? This is F1. It's about nothing but data and details. For you to even make a statement like that tells me sooooooo much. You are like so many who look at the sport in a snapshot and make broad statements when the longitudinal data look says something quite different. You are fighting data with opinion. Well...go for it. And continue to be blind.

How long have you been watching the sport?

I don't know very much. I'm not claiming to. Im just listening to what the drivers and their constructors themselves are saying. Easiest explanation is the correct one in this case, sorry. We'll be arguing until we are blue in the face.

[Cyn-BMW]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

It's a pattern of behavior with Max bullying other drivers. They, including Sir Lewis, usually back off. They even joke about giving Max extra room. This time Sir Lewis held his line while Max yanked his steering wheel to the right. We all know the result.

Lewis held his line? Lewis missed the apex, Max tried to take the racing line and got run off the track. As proven by the stewards decision.

[Autobacs]

So here is the summary so far:

Stewards penalized Hamilton.

Coulthard and Webber says its Hamilton's fault. BUT, some say DC has always got it for HAM (Biased) and Webber is an ex Red Bull Driver.

I have to say DC, whether he is biased against Hamilton or not, has to have some balls to go against HAM considering this is the British Grand Prix.

So this is what Ricciardo says. He is an ex Red Bull Driver so anyone care to refute his opinion and why? His opinion is trash as well?

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/18/...ion-ricciardo/

Any F1 Driver on record saying it was Max's fault? I'd like to see it as well.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

And suddenly it doesn't matter anymore . WTF !!!
Your question was : "Who was wrong" !

Negative again : Max was leading the race by the length of a car, and Hammy had to take the safer path 'in the very fast Copse turn !
MAX ran at that moment on the perfect race line at Copse . Hammy was only there to complete his 'Torpedo on MAX right rear wheel !

Mate .Do you even watched the race ?

Yes right or wrong doesn't matter to me. Because even if Max is 100% right, he got 0 points out of it.

The question I asked that you didn't answer was who had more room?

If he backed off, he would have ended the race in a better position, with faster race pace as shown in the sprint race, and all that skill surely he could have gotten past again even if he gave up that turn.

Also Max was not a car length at turn in, they were side by side. Max had more room to his left than Lewis had to his right.

[FormulaMMM]

Positioning lap 1 vs lap 50.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Positioning lap 1 vs lap 50.

Hmm, why are the Red Bull's wheels pointed so hard towards the inside? That's not where you want the car to go, that will lead to a spin. Ferrari doesn't have that issue

[Foghorn]

You can bet that if the cars were inverted Max would have certainly gone up the inside in the same way Lewis did.

I disagree with comments that Lewis “missed” the corner apex, look at where Lewis is pointed in the video frame just before contract, he’s slightly past the usual apex by about a car length. Back up a little further where Lewis was overlapped on the inside by about a car length minus a wheel, this is before turn in for the apex, given Lewis is about 90% overlapping to the inside before turn in I’d say that was fairly Lewis’ corner and at this point Max should have ceeded the corner and backed out. Instead Max braked later than Lewis thereby cutting the overlap to 50% at the point of contact. Hamilton was about a front tire width outside the usual apex whereas Max had just about 3 car widths to the outside.

Max had just been passed down the straight so he knew Lewis had more speed and the inside line, this is where Max’s temperament gets the better of him. Max is typically more aggressive than other drivers in a given situation, this time, like many other times, took more risk than needed and it cost him. He had 51 laps to get the place back.

Again, I believe if the cars were swapped around Max would have absolutely gone up the inside of Lewis.

That was nothing more than a racing incident that happened on lap 1, no penalty was warranted. Of course it was a heavy crash and I’m Max was not seriously hurt. Max would do well to revise his risk/reward strategy in some cases.

What kind of racing is it when if you’re 90% overlapped on the inside at the turn in point it’s the inside car’s fault if there’s contact? We prefer induced passing with aid of DRS instead of a driving battle?

In sailboat racing’s it’s very well defined what overlap means, at what point it is observed before a turning mark and what rights it confers on the inside boat and how the outside boat must give room and keep clear, maybe F1 could benefit from defining better the requirements other than leaving a car’s width.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Hmm, why are the Red Bull's wheels pointed so hard towards the inside? That's not where you want the car to go, that will lead to a spin. Ferrari doesn't have that issue

Sure, your opinion is better than Ricciardo? No sarcasm, really asking.

Ham's position with Max is so far off the inside line as compared to his position with Charles.

So why is Ham's position much further outside the inside line than with Charles? BTW, Charles went outside the track limits on that line he took. If had been the one overtaking Ham he would have had to give back the position.

He was coming in too hot in the corner, as Ricciardo said.

You now have three F1 Drivers saying it was Ham's fault, a good number who does not want to give an opinion or saying it's a racing incident, Wolff saying both are to blame, Horner saying Ham is to blame.

Anyone have any F1 Driver's saying it was Max's fault, apart of course from some members of this forum?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Hmm, why are the Red Bull's wheels pointed so hard towards the inside? That's not where you want the car to go, that will lead to a spin. Ferrari doesn't have that issue

Yeah, hard to say! Formula DRIFT auditioning?

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Sure, your opinion is better than Ricciardo? No sarcasm, really asking.

Ham's position with Max is so far off the inside line as compared to his position with Charles.

So why is Ham's position much further outside the inside line than with Charles? BTW, Charles went outside the track limits on that line he took. If had been the one overtaking Ham he would have had to give back the position.

He was coming in too hot in the corner, as Ricciardo said.

You now have three F1 Drivers saying it was Ham's fault, a good number who does not want to give an opinion or saying it's a racing incident, Wolff saying both are to blame, Horner saying Ham is to blame.

Anyone have any F1 Driver's saying it was Max's fault, apart of course from some members of this forum?

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Yeah, hard to say! Formula DRIFT auditioning?

What can I say... excessive blocking attempts loose races when they don't work, don't they?

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

What can I say... excessive blocking attempts loose races when they don't work, don't they?

Of course even the most simplest question will sometimes get an off base answer that is really not an answer.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Foghorn

Y............ maybe F1 could benefit from defining better the requirements other than leaving a car’s width.

Actually, it is defined in the rules.
If a car on the inside is 50% or more alongside, the corner belongs to the inside car.

[yco]

too hot in the corner.. can it be because he was about to be slammed on the wall just 100-200m before?

and if you want to be selective on words.. so 2 battles before that corner.. those battles were too cold? Max was too cold when completing an overtake off track for example? or closing on Lewis' face on the next one? those were too cold?

Lewis was on the inside.. along side Max.. lets not consider he was outside and they collided.. he had a right to be there.. trying to pass a car at that corner is not allowed or what?

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Foghorn

You can bet that if the cars were inverted Max would have certainly gone up the inside in the same way Lewis did.

I disagree with comments that Lewis “missed” the corner apex, look at where Lewis is pointed in the video frame just before contract, he’s slightly past the usual apex by about a car length. Back up a little further where Lewis was overlapped on the inside by about a car length minus a wheel, this is before turn in for the apex, given Lewis is about 90% overlapping to the inside before turn in I’d say that was fairly Lewis’ corner and at this point Max should have ceeded the corner and backed out. Instead Max braked later than Lewis thereby cutting the overlap to 50% at the point of contact. Hamilton was about a front tire width outside the usual apex whereas Max had just about 3 car widths to the outside.

Max had just been passed down the straight so he knew Lewis had more speed and the inside line, this is where Max’s temperament gets the better of him. Max is typically more aggressive than other drivers in a given situation, this time, like many other times, took more risk than needed and it cost him. He had 51 laps to get the place back.

Again, I believe if the cars were swapped around Max would have absolutely gone up the inside of Lewis.

That was nothing more than a racing incident that happened on lap 1, no penalty was warranted. Of course it was a heavy crash and I’m Max was not seriously hurt. Max would do well to revise his risk/reward strategy in some cases.

What kind of racing is it when if you’re 90% overlapped on the inside at the turn in point it’s the inside car’s fault if there’s contact? We prefer induced passing with aid of DRS instead of a driving battle?

In sailboat racing’s it’s very well defined what overlap means, at what point it is observed before a turning mark and what rights it confers on the inside boat and how the outside boat must give room and keep clear, maybe F1 could benefit from defining better the requirements other than leaving a car’s width.

Extremely well put!

[Bubbles]

Not a fan of these Pirelli tires — blow up, delaminate and disintegrate with a minor touch.

And this was the upgraded tire.

I’ve never seen Hammy wear radio headsets in the pit lane.
It happen to coincide with Toto’s request to Massi to check his inbox for an email.



https://streamable.com/o329r8

[yco]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . "Do you need more salt" ? To throw in the wound...

That looks really nice ...Isn't it ?

mate you and your friends were making fun of Bottas' wreck in Imola.. remember?

so its ok if Bottas involves in crashes but Max is not? why dont you make fun of Max's now?

if you double standard on drivers lives of the grid.. i have no further questions..

[Cyn-BMW]

Originally Posted by Foghorn

You can bet that if the cars were inverted Max would have certainly gone up the inside in the same way Lewis did.

I disagree with comments that Lewis “missed” the corner apex, look at where Lewis is pointed in the video frame just before contract, he’s slightly past the usual apex by about a car length. Back up a little further where Lewis was overlapped on the inside by about a car length minus a wheel, this is before turn in for the apex, given Lewis is about 90% overlapping to the inside before turn in I’d say that was fairly Lewis’ corner and at this point Max should have ceeded the corner and backed out. Instead Max braked later than Lewis thereby cutting the overlap to 50% at the point of contact. Hamilton was about a front tire width outside the usual apex whereas Max had just about 3 car widths to the outside.

Max had just been passed down the straight so he knew Lewis had more speed and the inside line, this is where Max’s temperament gets the better of him. Max is typically more aggressive than other drivers in a given situation, this time, like many other times, took more risk than needed and it cost him. He had 51 laps to get the place back.

Again, I believe if the cars were swapped around Max would have absolutely gone up the inside of Lewis.

That was nothing more than a racing incident that happened on lap 1, no penalty was warranted. Of course it was a heavy crash and I’m Max was not seriously hurt. Max would do well to revise his risk/reward strategy in some cases.

What kind of racing is it when if you’re 90% overlapped on the inside at the turn in point it’s the inside car’s fault if there’s contact? We prefer induced passing with aid of DRS instead of a driving battle?

In sailboat racing’s it’s very well defined what overlap means, at what point it is observed before a turning mark and what rights it confers on the inside boat and how the outside boat must give room and keep clear, maybe F1 could benefit from defining better the requirements other than leaving a car’s width.

Except for the stewards disagreed. And, that’s really all that matters.

[Foghorn]

Originally Posted by Cyn-BMW

Except for the stewards disagreed. And, that’s really all that matters.

Fair point. But it also surfaces what seems to be inconsistent application of penalties and ambiguity in the rules.

Interesting to hear the teams conversations with the FIA this year. Christian Horner and Helmot Marko performed the equivalent of a football (soccer) dive to get the refs attention. Of course Toto Wolfe had to then turn up the volume with messages and a dash to see the stewards with an email. The theatrics the rules and regulations now evoke takes away from the racing.

[M5Rick]

Race ban for Hamilton should be implemented for dangerous driving.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...crash/6633088/

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by yco

mate you and your friends were making fun of Bottas' wreck in Imola.. remember?

so its ok if Bottas involves in crashes but Max is not? why dont you make fun of Max's now?

if you double standard on drivers lives of the grid.. i have no further questions..

You're well off the beaten track mate lol BOT moved over on Russell at a critical moment, what has that comparable with this where HAM positioned himself lightning fast knowing what the outcome would well be trying to compare with Max who had nothing to do with it, that incident at Imola was actually comparable with a mr magoo with closed eyes. Your hammy flung a piece of 5hit in this scenario just a dirty rotten cheat with that desperate move knowing it could very well have injured the RB driver. Time you woke up out of your amg prayer trance.

[nick46]

At the end of the day this was always going to happen at some point this season. These two drivers want it so bad and neither one is prepared to give way. Lewis wants to stamp his authority and Max wants to steal his crown. Its also a psychological battle - one thinking they can make the other think twice, and give it up.
Isn't this what we all want to see? Drivers at the top of their game laying it all on the line for glory? Its definitely what I want to see and it makes it so exciting. That's one of the reasons I love Motogp - riders going at it toe to toe week in week out laying it all on the line in the quest for glory.
Who wants to watch processional racing where all the passes are 'after you sir?' Not me thats for sure. I want to be sitting on the edge of my sofa watching gladiators go at it.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Hmm, why are the Red Bull's wheels pointed so hard towards the inside? That's not where you want the car to go, that will lead to a spin. Ferrari doesn't have that issue

Max is trying to make the corner, any wider that that and he goes wide on corner exit leaving 2+ widths off the apex. Lewis had plenty of room here. Lewis stood zero chance at making the apex, carrying too much speed. His pride and desire to win at home put him on a collision course here, as pictured. He had his elbows out as racing drivers typically do. Was he a fault here, yes. Evidence showed this and it was confirmed by his lack of disagreement when his engineer informed him of his penalty.

Leclerc didn't fight, as he didn't have the pace. If you want to know what happens if you run wide at entry, and apex, and if you watched the race you wouldn't make this statement of poor observation. Leclerc ran wide on corner exit and off track! The same would've happened to Max had he not turned in when he did.

Lewis put both cars and drivers at risk at a high rate of speed with no chance to succeed. He will likely get points against his license as a result. The only reason he was able to continue, with an extreme amount of luck, is because he played carbon pong with another car and came out with the upper hand.