[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

apparently you don't know much about Toyota Lexus
Look at the infotainment of the RCF
it's also 3 different cars grafted together
from decades old platforms and chassis

I’m aware that Toyota also has a tendency to extend the use of some of their platforms compared to other manufacturers, but what in their lineup is virtually unchanged from 15 plus years ago like Nissan’s Frontier? I don’t even think the land cruiser is as recycled.

I think repurposing 3 older platforms into a contemporary one is different than leaving one platform virtually unchanged for 15 plus years design wise, and mechanically.

I’d be curious to see if this joint venture between Toyota and BMW breaks in the future, I’d Toyota will continue to use for example, the B58 for 10 plus years.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

I’m aware that Toyota also has a tendency to extend the use of some of their platforms compared to other manufacturers, but what in their lineup is virtually unchanged from 15 plus years ago like Nissan’s Frontier? I don’t even think the land cruiser is as recycled.

I think repurposing 3 older platforms into a contemporary one is different than leaving one platform virtually unchanged for 15 plus years design wise, and mechanically.

I’d be curious to see if this joint venture between Toyota and BMW breaks in the future, I’d Toyota will continue to use for example, the B58 for 10 plus years.

J200 Land Cruiser 2007-Present STILL being made
J200 LX470 same same but different but still the same

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

This STOCK enough for ya?
Still 2x MORE boy racer look at me than the MK5 Supra

Agreed. They are both not good.

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

I’m aware that Toyota also has a tendency to extend the use of some of their platforms compared to other manufacturers, but what in their lineup is virtually unchanged from 15 plus years ago like Nissan’s Frontier? I don’t even think the land cruiser is as recycled.

I think repurposing 3 older platforms into a contemporary one is different than leaving one platform virtually unchanged for 15 plus years design wise, and mechanically.

I’d be curious to see if this joint venture between Toyota and BMW breaks in the future, I’d Toyota will continue to use for example, the B58 for 10 plus years.

Your talking about a truck, they usually don't change much.

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by supra93

Is this the new brz/frs with a BMW motor?

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by basedphenom

the new supra looks so nice

You mean ugly? Or updated frs.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

J200 Land Cruiser 2007-Present STILL being made
J200 LX470 same same but different but still the same

Toyota is pretty bad but they fly under the radar because the masses still equate them with reliability but the reality is that they are reliable because a lot of their drivetrains date back to last decade. Their new 4-cylinder engine isn't even that good as my father in law has a 2020 RAV-4 and the engine is rough and coarse at a time where most automakers can make a smooth engine. The Japanese in general lag the Germans and even domestics when it comes to engine and transmission tech. Heck it's only been the latest generations of Hondas where they started widely employing DI.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

You mean ugly? Or updated frs.

It's almost as if people have different opinions.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Toyota is pretty bad but they fly under the radar because the masses still equate them with reliability but the reality is that they are reliable because a lot of their drivetrains date back to last decade. Their new 4-cylinder engine isn't even that good as my father in law has a 2020 RAV-4 and the engine is rough and coarse at a time where most automakers can make a smooth engine. The Japanese in general lag the Germans and even domestics when it comes to engine and transmission tech. Heck it's only been the latest generations of Hondas where they started widely employing DI.

But who really cares about all that when they just don't break?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

But who really cares about all that when they just don't break?

Yep. The VAST majority of people in the US aren't enthusiasts and don't care about fun to drive cars with cutting edge tech that can take you to dinner on Friday night and HPDE on Sunday.

They want something that will be reliable for their 7-year payment plan and won't break down or cost a lot of money to maintain.

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by super51fan

It's almost as if people have different opinions.

Maybe. But I never found the supra to look good. It just ugly for me.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

Maybe. But I never found the supra to look good. It just ugly for me.

Okay

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

But who really cares about all that when they just don't break?

Hondas, Subarus, Nissans all break. Toyota has fared better but they utilze the oldest tech in most of their vehicles. Honda has had a lot of issues with their 1.5T engine in particular and their automatic transmission have never been very good. Subaru has a new recall every week and can't design an engine that doesn't drink oil or spin bearings. Nissan makes disposable vehicles like Chrysler. The reality is that most Japanese brands outside of Toyota are average or below average in reliability.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by super51fan

That really isn't a good way to think about it though. Not only 370z is rated at the crank where as the Supra/other BMWs are underrated, that is just peak power and not power under the curve. Also the 4 cylinder Supra makes a lot more torque and weighs less than the 370z. This is why they the 4 cylinder Supra and 370z have similar 0-60 times and quarter mile times. Not that is matters but the 4 cylinder Supra has a lot better fuel economy as well.

So in real world applications the argument is actually just the cost of the nicer interior for $10,000.

Ehhh, the 4-banger in the Supra is likely underrated and the 3.7 in the Z is probably over rated, but we're talking 75 horsepower here, not like 15-25. I'm sure they have very similar acceleration numbers, but i'm guessing most of that comes down to transmission and the ZF 8-speed being god tier as far as autos go.

And quite frankly if you have two cars with identical acceleration numbers, i'd almost always rather have the one that shifts slower, as you know its pulling harder IN GEAR than the car that's making up time by shifting faster (that and i've never owned an automatic and don't intend to start any time soon.)

I'm not saying the Supra is a bad value. I'm saying for people who just want the best driving experience and don't have a lot of money to spend, taking a long hard look at a Z might be a wise move.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Ehhh, the 4-banger in the Supra is likely underrated and the 3.7 in the Z is probably over rated, but we're talking 75 horsepower here, not like 15-25. I'm sure they have very similar acceleration numbers, but i'm guessing most of that comes down to transmission and the ZF 8-speed being god tier as far as autos go.

And quite frankly if you have two cars with identical acceleration numbers, i'd almost always rather have the one that shifts slower, as you know its pulling harder IN GEAR than the car that's making up time by shifting faster (that and i've never owned an automatic and don't intend to start any time soon.)

I'm not saying the Supra is a bad value. I'm saying for people who just want the best driving experience and don't have a lot of money to spend, taking a long hard look at a Z might be a wise move.

75 peak horsepower. Keyword is peak. Peak is important.

2.0 Supra makes more power than the 370z until roughly 5500-6000 rpm and makes more torque throughout the powerband. IN GEAR or not, the Supra pulls way harder down low at the RPMs you use the most thus feeling faster.

Of course the ZF8 is to credit for this. But the 370Z also has abysmal gearing that only makes the car fun on a track at redline.

I truly don’t think 2.0 Supra is a good value either but my 6MT G37 was the most boring car I ever owned and was only a good driving experience on longer road trips which I don’t think the 370z is as refined in that category.

[Alfisti]

No fucking way i'd take 370Z over a 2T Supra, you'd be stark raving mad unless the $$$ broke the bank.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by super51fan

I truly don’t think 2.0 Supra is a good value either but my 6MT G37 was the most boring car I ever owned and was only a good driving experience on longer road trips which I don’t think the 370z is as refined in that category.

I don't understand this sentiment at all. We are living in an era where a loaded Subaru WRX STI (still rocking 2004 tech) comes in over $40k, a Golf R (GTI with a hp bump and Haldex AWD) has a MSRP of $41k, and a FWD Civic Type R is $37k (extremely shoddy build quality). A BMW built RWD sports coupe in the same price ballpark as these sport compact cars based of entry level compact vehicles is a fantastic value.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I don't understand this sentiment at all. We are living in an era where a loaded Subaru WRX STI still rocking 2004 tech comes in over $40k, a Golf R has a MSRP of $41k, and a FWD Civic Type R is $37k (extremely shoddy build quality). A BMW built RWD sports coupe in the same price ballpark as these sport compact cars based of entry level compact vehicles is a fantastic value.

I say that because you get so much more by paying $8k more to get the 3.0. And just because I don't think it is a good value, doesn't mean I don't see why someone would buy one.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by super51fan

I say that because you get so much more by paying $8k more to get the 3.0. And just because I don't think it is a good value, doesn't mean I don't see why someone would buy one.

Supra premium is what 55$k with some options
There's exist a much better BMW sports coupe with a much superior inline 6 for a few grand more and it comes in manual
M2 comp

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Supra premium is what 55$k with some options
There's exist a much better BMW sports coupe with a much superior inline 6 for a few grand more and it comes in manual
M2 comp

We will agree to disagree on which car is better

[OkieSnuffBox]

I'm shocked how many dealers are still asking well over MSRP for the 2020 Supra. A quick search of Autotrader shows more than 200 of them across country for sale under MSRP by thousands.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by super51fan

75 peak horsepower. Keyword is peak. Peak is important.

2.0 Supra makes more power than the 370z until roughly 5500-6000 rpm and makes more torque throughout the powerband. IN GEAR or not, the Supra pulls way harder down low at the RPMs you use the most thus feeling faster.

I get that it has more torque, I just don't think you're correct about area under the curve (not that either of us could verify without back to back dyno runs on the same day, along with a bunch of math.) If we assume you're correct and the Z makes less power below 5500 RPM, you've still got 2000 RPM to work with between 5500 RPM and the Z's 7500 RPM redline. If you shift at redline, the Z drops from 7500 RPM to about 6000 RPM, at which point the car is still making more horsepower than the Supra would be at peak power. So while overall area under the curve may go either way, the area under the curve that actually matters during high performance driving is MUCH bigger on the Z car.

That said, between the transmission, the better torque and the lower peak power RPM, I'm sure the Supra would feel faster in day to day driving. But if you're driving the cars hard, the Z is going to pull harder in gear.

Obviously everyone drives differently and its totally fine to prefer one type of powerband over another. My personal preference when it comes to performance cars is to always place some sort of a premium on high RPM power, as I find that to be the most exciting part of the powerband. I also would never buy a supra by virtue of transmission. But hey, I could've bought a 370Z and I didn't even consider it for a second, so its not like you're totally wrong here either.