530D loses grip on un-even surfaces

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 04:14 AM

Hi All,
Just to recap on my current set up.

F10 530d SE with:
Dynamic drive
Sport gearbox
20 inch wheels

I've owned the car for about 2 months now and have covered approx 3k miles in that time. In principle the car is a very fine vehicle, both internally/mechanical and externally. However, I have on a number of occasions experienced a complete loss of grip and the car has physically slid sideways when travelling around a round a bout with an un-even surface. This happened to me yesterday.

I was with my wife and two small children. I was just joining a round-a-bout outside Wimslow (cheshire). (just in case anyone knows the area.. this is the round-a-bout that leads from the M56 and has the Marriott hotel on it. see this link for google earth.. you can see for yourself the road surface I'm talking about)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...49.11,,0,31.03

I was travelling on this round-a-bout at 20MPH and the car for a split second felt like it was on a sheet of glass. Traction to all four tyres was lost and the car drifted completely sideways. This was a massive shock to me as there was a 4x4 at the rear/side of me and we managed to just avoid touching.
This type of loss has happened to me about 4/5 times now and all of them have been on round-a-bouts on uneven surfaces. Some happened at 35/40mph but like I said this happened at 20mph.. Very scary.

Spoke to the salesman at the dealership this morning and he is advising it's a characteristic of the car and especially the stiffer suspension.. (not entirely sure I have the stiffer suspension on this car.. BMW have made it so complex now to decide what extras you need to make the car ride correctly).

Anyway.. just wanted to share my experience with you and at the same time ask if anyone has had similar issues with the F10 or indeed any other vehicle.

Roy

HighlandPete · 08-23-2010, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uktivo

F10 530d SE with: 20 inch wheels

Spoke to the salesman at the dealership this morning and he is advising it's a characteristic of the car and especially the stiffer suspension.. (not entirely sure I have the stiffer suspension on this car.. BMW have made it so complex now to decide what extras you need to make the car ride correctly).

I'd say it is the combination of wheel size and RFTs contributing to problem, historic and typical on RFT shod cars.

My dealer has a 535i with 19" wheels (with DDC and sport box), a very good setup, which they tried with 20" wheels. The first customer to test drive the 20" setup came back within minutes, stating it was an aweful ride and drive. Not believing him, the senior sales guy took the car out and returned with the same comment, they removed the wheels and put the original 19" set back on, and its a different car.

Personally I can't see 20" wheels working on typical UK roads without serious dynamic compromise.

HighlandPete

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 05:10 AM

Highland Pete.. thanks for the quick reply. I've thought about taking a car out with say 19inch wheels on it. Wouldn't be the first time I've swapped wheels over from a new car I've purchased.

I do love the wheels I have (see picture) but, if these things are compromising safety, then i'm afraid it's a no brainer as my family come first each and every time.

mlai · 08-23-2010, 05:26 AM

Just curious, what tyres do you have on the 20" wheels?

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 05:36 AM

running:
Dunlop SP Sport Maxx
245/35/R20 on the front

275/30/R20 on the rears

RC3 · 08-23-2010, 05:42 AM

I actually am thinking of swapping to the 345 wheels when I get my car. Knowing your experience, might have to re-consider to have 19 inch instead. Please keep us posted on the development.

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 05:46 AM

Yes will keep this thread updated.

Having myself driven on HK roads, I know they can be as bad in places as UK ones.. so it may be a wise choice not opting for these wheels and stick to 19inch ones, if that is in fact what is causing the issue.

Roy

mlai · 08-23-2010, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uktivo

running:
Dunlop SP Sport Maxx
245/35/R20 on the front

275/30/R20 on the rears

I believe those you get OEM with the wheels from your dealer?
I am getting Pirelli P Zero Hero with mine. Will let you know if the Pirelli's are better. One thing came to mind, though. check the tire manufacture date. Sometimes, dealer will put the ones they had most stock in with wheels package and they could have sat on their shelves for over 3 years....

HighlandPete · 08-23-2010, 06:23 AM

I do believe we are still going to experience wheel size/tyre brand sensitive cars, even on the F10/11 cars.

I wasn't convinced about a set of 18" running Dunlop's, they allowed far too many road imperfections back through the steering wheel. The 19" on Pirelli were a better more composed drive.

The feeling of being on ice is well documented for 3-series cars, my own car on 17" Bridgestone RFTs suffered from that feeling, amidst others. And I wasn't on M-sport suspension either. A 320d SE I tried on a staggered set of 17" wheels, felt it was about to go over the hedge at times, was so compromised at the rear.

HighlandPete

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 06:38 AM

Highland pete..
I've never felt the "ice slide" (tm) (

) before.

I've ran 328 coupe, 320 touring, 330ci, X5, X3, 530 e60 and now the 530d F10.

So in your opinion, it's not a simple change the wheels and tyres fix?

Roy

carl_d · 08-23-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uktivo

Hi All,
Just to recap on my current set up.

F10 530d SE with:
Dynamic drive
Sport gearbox
20 inch wheels

I've owned the car for about 2 months now and have covered approx 3k miles in that time. In principle the car is a very fine vehicle, both internally/mechanical and externally. However, I have on a number of occasions experienced a complete loss of grip and the car has physically slid sideways when travelling around a round a bout with an un-even surface. This happened to me yesterday.

I was with my wife and two small children. I was just joining a round-a-bout outside Wimslow (cheshire). (just in case anyone knows the area.. this is the round-a-bout that leads from the M56 and has the Marriott hotel on it. see this link for google earth.. you can see for yourself the road surface I'm talking about)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...49.11,,0,31.03

I was travelling on this round-a-bout at 20MPH and the car for a split second felt like it was on a sheet of glass. Traction to all four tyres was lost and the car drifted completely sideways. This was a massive shock to me as there was a 4x4 at the rear/side of me and we managed to just avoid touching.
This type of loss has happened to me about 4/5 times now and all of them have been on round-a-bouts on uneven surfaces. Some happened at 35/40mph but like I said this happened at 20mph.. Very scary.

Spoke to the salesman at the dealership this morning and he is advising it's a characteristic of the car and especially the stiffer suspension.. (not entirely sure I have the stiffer suspension on this car.. BMW have made it so complex now to decide what extras you need to make the car ride correctly).

Anyway.. just wanted to share my experience with you and at the same time ask if anyone has had similar issues with the F10 or indeed any other vehicle.

Roy

I know this such a basic thing but check the tyre pressures when the car is cold in morning. Just 0.1 Bar lwo can cause this or make it much worse. This is the most likey cause! If you do not have a gauge get one in Halford which reads in BAR not psi.

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl_d

I know this such a basic thing but check the tyre pressures when the car is cold in monring. This is the most likey cause! If you do not have a gauge get one in Halford which reads in BAR not psi.

Thanks for the advise but I always ensure tyre pressures are maintained when tyres are cooled. Make a point of checking every month or so.

akhter · 08-23-2010, 07:08 AM

was the car in normal or comfort mode?

uktivo · 08-23-2010, 07:21 AM

I have three settings on the car.
Normal
Sport
Sport +

(don't have the comfort setting)

The car was and is normally in "normal"

HighlandPete · 08-23-2010, 08:43 AM

Personally I don't believe all wheel sizes work with a given suspension setup, 3 or 5 series. It does depend on what roads we drive. RFT parameters are so tight, in my experience, that we are bound to find the limitations.

SE suspension and 19" could be the best setup, but still may be compromised.

What I do know, remove the RFTs and the same chassis (3-series) on normal tyres has no such weird characteristics.

HighlandPete

08-23-2010, 04:14 AM	#1
uktivo Private 9 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 530D - F10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Staffordshire iTrader: (0)	530D loses grip on un-even surfaces Hi All, Just to recap on my current set up. F10 530d SE with: Dynamic drive Sport gearbox 20 inch wheels I've owned the car for about 2 months now and have covered approx 3k miles in that time. In principle the car is a very fine vehicle, both internally/mechanical and externally. However, I have on a number of occasions experienced a complete loss of grip and the car has physically slid sideways when travelling around a round a bout with an un-even surface. This happened to me yesterday. I was with my wife and two small children. I was just joining a round-a-bout outside Wimslow (cheshire). (just in case anyone knows the area.. this is the round-a-bout that leads from the M56 and has the Marriott hotel on it. see this link for google earth.. you can see for yourself the road surface I'm talking about) http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...49.11,,0,31.03 I was travelling on this round-a-bout at 20MPH and the car for a split second felt like it was on a sheet of glass. Traction to all four tyres was lost and the car drifted completely sideways. This was a massive shock to me as there was a 4x4 at the rear/side of me and we managed to just avoid touching. This type of loss has happened to me about 4/5 times now and all of them have been on round-a-bouts on uneven surfaces. Some happened at 35/40mph but like I said this happened at 20mph.. Very scary. Spoke to the salesman at the dealership this morning and he is advising it's a characteristic of the car and especially the stiffer suspension.. (not entirely sure I have the stiffer suspension on this car.. BMW have made it so complex now to decide what extras you need to make the car ride correctly). Anyway.. just wanted to share my experience with you and at the same time ask if anyone has had similar issues with the F10 or indeed any other vehicle. Roy
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08-23-2010, 05:10 AM	#3
uktivo Private 9 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 530D - F10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Staffordshire iTrader: (0)	Highland Pete.. thanks for the quick reply. I've thought about taking a car out with say 19inch wheels on it. Wouldn't be the first time I've swapped wheels over from a new car I've purchased. I do love the wheels I have (see picture) but, if these things are compromising safety, then i'm afraid it's a no brainer as my family come first each and every time. Attached Images
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08-23-2010, 05:26 AM	#4
mlai Colonel 168 Rep 2,340 Posts Drives: 650GC/E93M3/Lexus LS600HL Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW F06 650i G ... [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 Cabriol ... [10.00]	Just curious, what tyres do you have on the 20" wheels? __________________ F06 650i Gran Coupe Ruby Black/Dakota Cinamon- 2012-10-12 Adaptive Drive/IAS/Surround View/Adaptive LED/Comfort Seats/BMW 356 Liquid Black/Michelin PSS 245/35R20-285/30R20 E93 M3 Cabriolet Satin Pearl White/CR - 2012/03/12 Bilstein PSS10/ Michelin PSS 245/35R19-265/35R19 Brembo GT 2011 F10 550i M Sport - Retired
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08-23-2010, 05:36 AM	#5
uktivo Private 9 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 530D - F10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Staffordshire iTrader: (0)	running: Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 245/35/R20 on the front 275/30/R20 on the rears
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08-23-2010, 05:42 AM	#6
RC3 Colonel 81 Rep 2,791 Posts Drives: F10 528i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 F10 528i [10.00]	I actually am thinking of swapping to the 345 wheels when I get my car. Knowing your experience, might have to re-consider to have 19 inch instead. Please keep us posted on the development.
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08-23-2010, 05:46 AM	#7
uktivo Private 9 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 530D - F10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Staffordshire iTrader: (0)	Yes will keep this thread updated. Having myself driven on HK roads, I know they can be as bad in places as UK ones.. so it may be a wise choice not opting for these wheels and stick to 19inch ones, if that is in fact what is causing the issue. Roy
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08-23-2010, 06:23 AM	#9
HighlandPete Lieutenant General 6659 Rep 15,858 Posts Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Scotland, Highland Region iTrader: (0)	I do believe we are still going to experience wheel size/tyre brand sensitive cars, even on the F10/11 cars. I wasn't convinced about a set of 18" running Dunlop's, they allowed far too many road imperfections back through the steering wheel. The 19" on Pirelli were a better more composed drive. The feeling of being on ice is well documented for 3-series cars, my own car on 17" Bridgestone RFTs suffered from that feeling, amidst others. And I wasn't on M-sport suspension either. A 320d SE I tried on a staggered set of 17" wheels, felt it was about to go over the hedge at times, was so compromised at the rear. HighlandPete
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08-23-2010, 06:38 AM	#10
uktivo Private 9 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 530D - F10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Staffordshire iTrader: (0)	Highland pete.. I've never felt the "ice slide" (tm) () before. I've ran 328 coupe, 320 touring, 330ci, X5, X3, 530 e60 and now the 530d F10. So in your opinion, it's not a simple change the wheels and tyres fix? Roy
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08-23-2010, 07:08 AM	#13
akhter Lieutenant Colonel 419 Rep 1,690 Posts Drives: 911 992 C2S Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hong Kong iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW X5 M Sport ... [0.00] 2007 335i M Sport E90 [10.00]	was the car in normal or comfort mode? __________________ Current 2021 Porsche 911 992 C2S Sold 2021 X7/2018 X5/2014 X5 Sold 2013 520i/2010 325i Sold E90 335i M Sport Alpine White\|Tokyo Sold E36 328i Jet Black\|NYC
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08-23-2010, 07:21 AM	#14
uktivo Private 9 Rep 74 Posts Drives: 530D - F10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Staffordshire iTrader: (0)	I have three settings on the car. Normal Sport Sport + (don't have the comfort setting) The car was and is normally in "normal"
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08-23-2010, 08:43 AM	#15
HighlandPete Lieutenant General 6659 Rep 15,858 Posts Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Scotland, Highland Region iTrader: (0)	Personally I don't believe all wheel sizes work with a given suspension setup, 3 or 5 series. It does depend on what roads we drive. RFT parameters are so tight, in my experience, that we are bound to find the limitations. SE suspension and 19" could be the best setup, but still may be compromised. What I do know, remove the RFTs and the same chassis (3-series) on normal tyres has no such weird characteristics. HighlandPete
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