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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Brake upgrades from other BMW models on F10
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      01-07-2022, 02:03 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addy27 View Post
M5 Caliper Carrier (Bracket) is physically different from 550i Caliper Carrier (Bracket) and not just a paint difference.

Take a look at this M5 Caliper (Carrier with screw holes exposed) : https://www.ebay.com/itm/14409984599...MAAOSwMUBg4IYb

vs

These 550i/650i calipers: https://www.ebay.com/itm/22439635050...temCondition=4

You can get the M5 brackets and fit your 550i calipers on them and run 370x24 rotors. So basically, the M5 rear calipers and carriers can be bolted straight on to non-M F10s/F06 hubs and run 370x24 rotors.

Hope this helps
Right, I have not noticed that. So I just need to get M5 brackets. Thanks for the help!
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      01-07-2022, 11:43 AM   #332
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Calling all front E70 X5M/X6M Caliper upgrade folk, please help...

Could you please advise what caliper bolts you are using and whether there is an OEM part number for these?

I understand you need 4 in total and because 4mm spacers/washers are required between the calipers and the hubs, this potentially means using longer 4mm longer bolts than stock to bridge the gap. However, not sure if this is this the case/ strictly necessary?

Can anyone shed some light?

I've checked with Bozman, who was one of the pioneers of the X5M setup, however, his bolts were pre-supplied when he purchased the calipers, so he didn't have to source them separately like I'm having to do.

MTIA
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      01-07-2022, 09:38 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
Calling all front E70 X5M/X6M Caliper upgrade folk, please help...

Could you please advise what caliper bolts you are using and whether there is an OEM part number for these?

I understand you need 4 in total and because 4mm spacers/washers are required between the calipers and the hubs, this potentially means using longer 4mm longer bolts than stock to bridge the gap. However, not sure if this is this the case/ strictly necessary?

Can anyone shed some light?

I've checked with Bozman, who was one of the pioneers of the X5M setup, however, his bolts were pre-supplied when he purchased the calipers, so he didn't have to source them separately like I'm having to do.

MTIA

Quick question for you before I respond, have you already bought the rotors? If not, I'm willing to bet if you buy the Roll Royce rotors, you shouldn't need to use the spacers and can use your standard bolts. However, the RR rotors are more expensive I believe but my gut feeling is the hat on those rotors are taller and so the rotor surface sits at the right spot. Reason I say this is because I've seen the Alpina B6/B5 document for brakes and they bolt these same calipers directly (But they use their own Part Numbers for the rotors) .

For Bolts, this BMW part number should work : 07119908596
Basically you need bolts that are M12x1.5x48 long (Thats 5mm longer than the stock bolt). I believe I bought either these or equivalent from Audi/VW catalog. I'll again try to pull their part number.
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      01-08-2022, 12:12 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
Calling all front E70 X5M/X6M Caliper upgrade folk, please help...

Could you please advise what caliper bolts you are using and whether there is an OEM part number for these?

I understand you need 4 in total and because 4mm spacers/washers are required between the calipers and the hubs, this potentially means using longer 4mm longer bolts than stock to bridge the gap. However, not sure if this is this the case/ strictly necessary?

Can anyone shed some light?

I've checked with Bozman, who was one of the pioneers of the X5M setup, however, his bolts were pre-supplied when he purchased the calipers, so he didn't have to source them separately like I'm having to do.

MTIA
Don't need longer bolts for 4mm.
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      01-08-2022, 11:05 AM   #335
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I’ve already ordered the front 395mm discs, so committed to using the 4mm spacer for this mod to work.

So, Addy27 from your experience you’ve used the longer bolt with your setup, much like Bozman has, but Unspec, you’re saying it’s not necessary and would the stock caliper bolt used on the 520D suffice?

I know it’s just a bolt and relatively inexpensive considering the high cost of all the other parts for this mod, but if the overall mod can be simplified in any way I’m all for it!
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      01-08-2022, 01:23 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
I’ve already ordered the front 395mm discs, so committed to using the 4mm spacer for this mod to work.

So, Addy27 from your experience you’ve used the longer bolt with your setup, much like Bozman has, but Unspec, you’re saying it’s not necessary and would the stock caliper bolt used on the 520D suffice?

I know it’s just a bolt and relatively inexpensive considering the high cost of all the other parts for this mod, but if the overall mod can be simplified in any way I’m all for it!
Yes, the bolt is long enough. As long as you can get 4-5 full turns, you have enough thread engagement.
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      01-09-2022, 02:15 PM   #337
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Many thanks Addy and Unspec for both your input re this!
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      01-09-2022, 04:58 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
Many thanks Addy and Unspec for both your input re this!
I would recommend you still verify yourself. As the saying goes, trust, but verify. You can do a dry fit without the rotors on and see if you get enough thread engagement.
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      01-10-2022, 12:58 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
Many thanks Addy and Unspec for both your input re this!
You're very welcome and I agree with unspec. The bolts I specified are pretty cheap. In fact as long as what you get are (M12*1.5*XX) where XX is 47 or more, you should be fine.
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      01-10-2022, 05:14 AM   #340
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In all honesty guys, I’ll arm myself with the longer bolts now I’ve ascertained the part number and just use them for good measure. Thanks again.
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      01-10-2022, 05:28 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
In all honesty guys, I'll arm myself with the longer bolts now I've ascertained the part number and just use them for good measure. Thanks again.
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      01-11-2022, 01:54 PM   #342
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Getting excited!!! Now I just need to pick up some washers and brake fluid.

These things are massive!
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      01-15-2022, 02:33 PM   #343
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Another interesting query/update regarding the X5M caliper option…

I met up with Bozman today, who’s done the X5M front brake upgrade. It has been discussed here many times, that wheel size (20inch) and the concavity of the wheel design is quite crucial to pull off this mod successfully and without fitment issues.

We mounted my 20inch wheels (Avant Garde 359M), onto Bozman’s car to check fitment with the X5M brake setup in situ and discovered that whilst the spokes (due to their concave shape) cleared the calipers comfortably, the space between both the top and bottom end of the caliper (think vertically tip to tip) only cleared the inside of the wheel, by a ridiculously low margin, we’re talking some 1-2mm clearance.

So we discovered, that not only is the size of the wheel and the concave design imperative for this mod to work, the overall wheel design (inner part of the wheel well) is just as significant, due to the size of the calipers.

So the good news is it works on my car as a proof of concept - but only just!

The question is, does anybody foresee any implications, functional or otherwise, that this limited clearance of 1-2mm between the top and bottom ends of the caliper and the wheel, may have for daily use?
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      01-15-2022, 03:28 PM   #344
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The tighter the clearance between wheel and rotor the easier it is to get a rock stuck in there and machine a groove in your wheel. I don't know how serious a threat that really is, but I've heard of it happening.
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      01-15-2022, 04:37 PM   #345
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Thanks Blue Angels, yes Bozman and I discussed this very scenario. Although it has to be said, any rock that does manage to wedge itself in that tiny space, will have to be very small indeed (circa < 2mm) so hoping it’s not a deal breaker.
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      01-16-2022, 07:15 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Angel View Post
The tighter the clearance between wheel and rotor the easier it is to get a rock stuck in there and machine a groove in your wheel. I don't know how serious a threat that really is, but I've heard of it happening.
Yeah, this is a fair point that Flying_Squad and I discussed that he will need to just get comfortable with. However, I was thinking about functional/safety reasons why this may be a bad idea. I couldn't think of anything, as if the wheel spins freely without obstruction (which it does) then the set up should work, even if the tip of each caliper only clears the wheel by a couple mm. I thought it would be a good idea to pose this to the forum anyway, though.

I was really surprised how tight of a fit this was with a 20" wheel, as I can stick my flat hand between the tip of the X5M caliper and the inside of my 343M wheel.
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      01-16-2022, 07:22 AM   #347
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I suppose if clearance is too tight there could be contact if the wheel flexes and moves around a bit under load, but I don't know how much movement is normal for wheels. I doubt contact would be anything to worry about beyond cosmetic issues (rubbing paint off the caliper).

You might call a good wheel manufacturer like HRE and ask them what they apply for minimum clearances and why. They should be infinitely more knowledgeable than I am on the topic.
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      01-16-2022, 06:23 PM   #348
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The middle of the barrel should not flex much at all - if it is, it wasn't a very good wheel to begin with.

Other potential consequence is cleaning. It'll be a bitch to get a wheel woolie or other brush into that area to clean.
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      01-16-2022, 09:40 PM   #349
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I remember reading a long time ago about carbon fiber wheels, and how they benefited over aluminum wheels because they were designed to handle the flexing that inevitably happens when hitting obstacles. In particular they referred to the curbing on racetrack corners which is purposely bumpy to discourage drivers not to hit it and cut corners.

According to that article, the constant bending and flexing of aluminum wheels eventually causes fatigue cracking (or just bends). Carbon wheels can apparently handle much more severe flexing without fear from fatigue cracking.

This is going back a LONG time, so I'm definitely not pretending to be knowledgeable on the topic, and I'm sure carbon fibre wheels (and maybe wheels in general) have evolved by orders of magnitude since then.

What I do know is, everything bends when a force is applied to it. What I don't know is whether a wheel moves by millimetres, or tenths of a mm, when it hits something. That's a question for the experts.
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      01-17-2022, 08:15 AM   #350
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Thanks for your thoughts guys, it may well be one of those mods where I have to give it a go and see. If I do run into issues, it's nothing a new set of wheels can't fix

For those who've done the M5 rear caliper upgrade... Did you use a repair kit for the carrier and caliper i.e. replace the piston, seals, etc?

If so, did you use a repair kit for the 550i (seeing as the M5 and 550i share the same caliper)?

Reason I ask; I haven't been able to source an M5 rear brake repair kit, but can see 550i kits out there.
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      01-18-2022, 10:45 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Squad View Post
Thanks for your thoughts guys, it may well be one of those mods where I have to give it a go and see. If I do run into issues, it's nothing a new set of wheels can't fix

For those who've done the M5 rear caliper upgrade... Did you use a repair kit for the carrier and caliper i.e. replace the piston, seals, etc?

If so, did you use a repair kit for the 550i (seeing as the M5 and 550i share the same caliper)?

Reason I ask; I haven't been able to source an M5 rear brake repair kit, but can see 550i kits out there.
I did not need to repair as I found a low mileage M5 rear caliper + bracket setup. But the caliper itself should be same as 550i. (All markings look the same on both). It's cheap enough to buy and try and update everyone here. Also real oem has the same inner piston seal ring on almost all F10s
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      01-18-2022, 02:57 PM   #352
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Thanks Addy, will grab the 550 kit when the time comes.
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