[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Midwest 535i

How do I like the handling of my F'10? Less than my M235i or 2 M3's I've owned in the past lol!

Its fine for what I want out of an EDD right now, I knew exactly what I was getting and what I wasn't getting. I've gotten smarter buying cars after all these years lol!

But it's not a great handling car imo.

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

It probably comes down to the driver and the suspension your on? Back when I was in San Diego I use to do a lot of canyon carving up in the Palomar/Julian Mtns while picking up Crumb Apple Pies at Mom's Bakery! So I would push my Turbo charged Integra pretty aggressively to where there were a couple of times I thought I'd fly off the mountain and kill myself lol! But with the F10 I was able to see the limits when she was stock to where she is now. So I believe with the right setup and the skills you have as a driver really makes a difference on how you can handle your car

+1.

the only real way to enjoy this chassis is going way too fast around windy canyon roads. (as long as the turns are not tighter low speed stuff, this thing feels light, very agile for its size predictable oversteer under throttle, absolutley minimal body roll it's excellent... for people who live near lots of windy one lane roads or have a huge highway commute this thing is a beauty. tight, low speed right turns always result in understeer unless you set up the corner properly and power out, but as soon as you hit a corner going 80+km/h there is absolutely not a hint understeer. you have to be quite seriously breaking the law to get the most out of this chassis which is off-putting for many drivers. this car is an absolute peach with RWD by the way - I suggest always skipping xDrive if you can. my first snow season with this rear drive 5 series I will never forget. it was capable - more stable then 4wd trucks and pulled off spectacular drifts. stopped and cornered through snow predictably and like a champ. for the record, the F10 gets alot more hate then it should in terms of steering. I know the f30 for instance may have lighter steering, but my early model f10 is just as heavy as your average hydrualic steering and there is feel. think of it as the e90 steering but less feel and less direct due to the soft suspension. this cars chassis has the potential to handle excellent if you ditch the soft suspension - good weight distribution, hefty but capable chassis, aluminum suspension components..

I didnt like how bulky and sloppy the car felt when I first got it. but when you keep this car within it's limits, enjoying the smooth refined chassis (like a mercedes) It's quite a wonderful and floats pefectly. if those low speed corners are important, this isnt the car for you.

[lsturbointeg]

another thing is there's a lot of people who never felt what it feels like to break the back end loose or drift a bit so when they feel the car slide they panick and pull back or maybe they don't push their car as hard as they think they do? so i always believed in that saying when they compare who will win...the professional driver driving a slow car or an in-experienced driver driving a fast car

[mko9]

I have a 535i 6MT base model car, I thought the handling on this car in it's stock form was appalling. It crashed over every bump, the body roll was excessive, and any turn had the nose diving to the outside of the corner. I ditched the runflat tires, I replaced the shocks/struts with Koni FSD units, and M5/M650D sway bars front and rear. The car corners a lot flatter now, and handles much better, but it is still miles behind my e46 330i ZHP (which is admittedly much lighter and has a little more tire). The biggest remaining drawback is electric steering is so vague, and there is no way to fix that.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by mko9

I have a 535i 6MT base model car, I thought the handling on this car in it's stock form was appalling. It crashed over every bump, the body roll was excessive, and any turn had the nose diving to the outside of the corner. I ditched the runflat tires, I replaced the shocks/struts with Koni FSD units, and M5/M650D sway bars front and rear. The car corners a lot flatter now, and handles much better, but it is still miles behind my e46 330i ZHP (which is admittedly much lighter and has a little more tire). The biggest remaining drawback is electric steering is so vague, and there is no way to fix that.

lets say this base model 528i is my only driver (which it is) and I upgrade the sway bars + get bilstein sport struts/ACS springs, would you be able to safely call this a good handling car? would it still ride nice and smooth on the highway, and is the crash over bumps going to be bad? I just installed super low profile 19 inch rims a couple weeks ago and It helped handling alot but the crash over potholes isnt too great...

[mko9]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

lets say this base model 528i is my only driver (which it is) and I upgrade the sway bars + get bilstein sport struts/ACS springs, would you be able to safely call this a good handling car? would it still ride nice and smooth on the highway, and is the crash over bumps going to be bad? I just installed super low profile 19 inch rims a couple weeks ago and It helped handling alot but the crash over potholes isnt too great...

IMO, the run-flat tires are the primary culprit of the crashingly harsh ride. Going to bigger wheels with a lower profile tire is certainly not going to help.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by mko9

IMO, the run-flat tires are the primary culprit of the crashingly harsh ride. Going to bigger wheels with a lower profile tire is certainly not going to help.

ditched the run flats a long, long time ago. my dad knows absolutely nothing about cars and still knew those original goodyears were the biggest piece of shit tires ever concieved. decent in the dry at most, garbage in the rain, garbage in the snow. very expensive - thankfully mine is not low profile so it didnt bubble over every stretch of shitty road.

in all honesty, switching to non RFT tires did not make such a huge difference like everyone makes it seem, but it 100% helped. steering lost a tad of sharpness due to the stiff sidewall.

low profile tires dont make the ride as bad as one may think for having so little tire on the rim, but they certainly do not help one bit. I gotta drive slowly and avoid garbage toronto potholes now.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

...the only real way to enjoy this chassis is going way too fast around windy canyon roads. (as long as the turns are not tighter low speed stuff, this thing feels light, very agile for its size predictable oversteer under throttle, absolutley minimal body roll it's excellent... for people who live near lots of windy one lane roads or have a huge highway commute this thing is a beauty. tight, low speed right turns always result in understeer unless you set up the corner properly and power out, but as soon as you hit a corner going 80+km/h there is absolutely not a hint understeer. you have to be quite seriously breaking the law to get the most out of this chassis which is off-putting for many drivers. this car is an absolute peach with RWD by the way - I suggest always skipping xDrive if you can. my first snow season with this rear drive 5 series I will never forget. it was capable - more stable then 4wd trucks and pulled off spectacular drifts. stopped and cornered through snow predictably and like a champ. for the record, the F10 gets alot more hate then it should in terms of steering. I know the f30 for instance may have lighter steering, but my early model f10 is just as heavy as your average hydrualic steering and there is feel. think of it as the e90 steering but less feel and less direct due to the soft suspension. this cars chassis has the potential to handle excellent if you ditch the soft suspension - good weight distribution, hefty but capable chassis, aluminum suspension components..

I didnt like how bulky and sloppy the car felt when I first got it. but when you keep this car within it's limits, enjoying the smooth refined chassis (like a mercedes) It's quite a wonderful and floats pefectly. if those low speed corners are important, this isnt the car for you.

I'm not sure your comments I've highlighted in bold reflect a common F10 trait. IMO, more the model, how the car is specified, what suspension, wheels, etc.

Certainly not my experience to be a less balanced chassis in slower turns, with my F11 chassis. Shows how there is a wide range of experience and opinion across the F10 range. Then this is expected as we are often not comparing apples with apples, then there is driver expectation, different driving environments, etc. This applies to the steering as well, not all models and specifications does the steering feel the same.

I recall the same applying to most model ranges, specification makes a vast difference to how a car drives. We are seeing it with the latest G30 models as well.

One thing I always keep in mind, BMW cars are designed to still retain superb dynamics at speed and while loaded. Many cars fall apart in those conditions, but it can mean there is often some compromise at lower speeds and when running 'driver only'. I don't think many enthusiasts on forums are too concerned with running a loaded car, more likely judged with just the driver.

When I had my E39 540i, I remember taking a friend out for the first time, he expected a more refined ride, driving along at 50 - 60mph. Yes it was good, but add some speed and feel it hunker down, you knew the car was capable of so much more than UK legal speeds could ever test it. Even loaded with four adults and luggage, the dynamics were superb.

For me, the F10/F11 with the active suspensions widen the working envelope, over and above something with a passive suspension. So we can have the better low speed capability and the high speed and loaded abilities, far less compromise.

[corys530]

Originally Posted by DDD31

The handling on my F10 is definitely a mixed bag. Concerning sporty handling, the 550 is too nose heavy and definitely isn't nimble and really doesn't inspire any kind of confidence when the roads get twisty. I realize with the xdrive, I have the base suspension and crappy RFTs which certainly doesn't help with providing sporty handling. Concerning the handling in normal driving (especially highway driving), the 550 does a fantastic job of providing a smooth comfortable ride and is a true joy to drive.

I hate to say it but to me the F10 feels and drives like a Mercedes. I realize it was BMW's goal to make the F10 5 series more like a Mercedes to increase their sales. I think they succeeded with that goal but the days of BMW building a sports sedan that would trounce all competition in the driving category unfortunately are not coming back.

i would agree, except the power steering is totally different, Mercedes has too strong power assist steering that takes all fun out, of it in my opinion
My 2001 530 and 2006 X5 were more nimble and surefooted..

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm not sure your comments I've highlighted in bold reflect a common F10 trait. IMO, more the model, how the car is specified, what suspension, wheels, etc.

Certainly not my experience to be a less balanced chassis in slower turns, with my F11 chassis. Shows how there is a wide range of experience and opinion across the F10 range. Then this is expected as we are often not comparing apples with apples, then there is driver expectation, different driving environments, etc. This applies to the steering as well, not all models and specifications does the steering feel the same.

I recall the same applying to most model ranges, specification makes a vast difference to how a car drives. We are seeing it with the latest G30 models as well.

One thing I always keep in mind, BMW cars are designed to still retain superb dynamics at speed and while loaded. Many cars fall apart in those conditions, but it can mean there is often some compromise at lower speeds and when running 'driver only'. I don't think many enthusiasts on forums are too concerned with running a loaded car, more likely judged with just the driver.

When I had my E39 540i, I remember taking a friend out for the first time, he expected a more refined ride, driving along at 50 - 60mph. Yes it was good, but add some speed and feel it hunker down, you knew the car was capable of so much more than UK legal speeds could ever test it. Even loaded with four adults and luggage, the dynamics were superb.

For me, the F10/F11 with the active suspensions widen the working envelope, over and above something with a passive suspension. So we can have the better low speed capability and the high speed and loaded abilities, far less compromise.

not the chassis doesnt feel balanced, its the weight of the car and the suspesnion which feels very floaty and slow to react around tight corners. It seems more willing to go into understeer around corners like this and there is a-lot of body roll bu I am on the base suspension.. all of these traits are gone for me as soon as I go faster like you said with the e39.

as long as I don't push the car too hard into 30-40KM/H turns it is a fun to drive car and I enjoy it a lot.

[krautmeister]

Since I got some recent seat time with my old E60 last week, the F10 definitely feels heavier. It is a 525i vs 550i so there is that factor.

As to whether I like my F10? I feel like the 704s are adequate for my driving nowadays. Maybe that's age creeping in. I don't have the opportunity for many twisties in a city, let alone driving them at any discernible speed to appreciate the handling at even 7/10.

I like the highway brutality and the occasional squirt to make a light, but still make a turn in my 550i. The bolsters are what disappoints me more than the suspension. I'm in a loaner 320i for a few more days and it's nimble for sure, but the seats are very huggy.

I say the 550 delivers on what I wanted it for. Luxury Sports Sedan... in that order. I'm not one for contriving to turn a large Sedan into a DTM or sports car... im eyeing some E46 M3 coupes or maybe even a 996 GT3 to have unadulterated fun and juvenile modding to.

[Breach]

Most definitely not a fair comparison, but I recently rented an Audi A1 and afterwards my F10 felt like... well, a pig before Christmas.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Breach

Most definitely not a fair comparison, but I recently rented an Audi A1 and afterwards my F10 felt like... well, a pig before Christmas.

Ha, and 7 series is a lot better highway cruiser than Mini.

You're right, it's not a fair comparison at all, so, why do it?

[Mbbrewer]

I have the 704m suspension and it's just okay stock. The handling was transformed with high performance 20" rims and tires and m5 sway bars. Handles like a BMW should now.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

I have the 704m suspension and it's just okay stock. The handling was transformed with high performance 20" rims and tires and m5 sway bars. Handles like a BMW should now.

I bet the sway bars especially made a big difference...If I wasn't leasing, I'd be doing some modding just like that.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Midwest 535i

I bet the sway bars especially made a big difference...If I wasn't leasing, I'd be doing some modding just like that.

Sway bars are typically the last thing you do to your suspension after coilovers.

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

Sway bars are typically the last thing you do to your suspension after coilovers.

No. You need to stop making things up. You have no experience and clearly don't understand suspension dynamics.


@ Everyone on this thread, this guy has no idea what he's talking about, just an FYI.

[n3985]

Originally Posted by Harambe

No. You need to stop making things up. You have no experience and clearly don't understand suspension dynamics.


@ Everyone on this thread, this guy has no idea what he's talking about, just an FYI.

Everyone has to start from somewhere, let's provide constructive feedback rather than condescend.

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by n3985

Everyone has to start from somewhere, let's provide constructive feedback rather than condescend.

You have no idea. Over on the E90 forums he makes countless threads and posts very inaccurate information and won't stop. People need to know.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Harambe

No. You need to stop making things up. You have no experience and clearly don't understand suspension dynamics.


@ Everyone on this thread, this guy has no idea what he's talking about, just an FYI.

Shut you mouth, you dont know fuck-all about suspension.

again... performance sway bars go AFTER coilovers.

I'll wait for someone else who actually knows about suspension to back this one up.

[n3985]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

Shut you mouth, you dont know fuck-all about suspension.

again... performance sway bars go AFTER coilovers.

I'll wait for someone else who actually knows about suspension to back this one up.

calm down there buddy

sway bars even on stock suspension will help with body roll but effect is maximized with higher spring rates offered on lowering springs or coilovers

it is not mandatory combo nor do step 1 then step 2 type of deal

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

Shut you mouth, you dont know fuck-all about suspension.

again... performance sway bars go AFTER coilovers.

I'll wait for someone else who actually knows about suspension to back this one up.

I know a helluva lot about suspension. I designed a whole suspension from the ground up for a Baja car in college.

Remember all the other times you got all up in arms at me because you think you're right then it always turns out you're wrong and I'm right?

Do you also think stiffest is the fastest?

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by n3985

calm down there buddy

sway bars even on stock suspension will help with body roll but effect is maximized with higher spring rates offered on lowering springs or coilovers

it is not mandatory combo nor do step 1 then step 2 type of deal

Yes, you are correct.

Keep in mind this is coming from the guy who didn't know his valve cover gasket and head gasket were different things. And who also didn't know the different between lowering springs w/ shocks versus coilovers.

I understand he is trying to learn and that's great, but he needs to stop spreading false information. I help people all the time on here, all from knowledge gained from personal experience.