[K-A]

Originally Posted by GXAlan

I concur. I'm coming from a G35x. I was cross-shopping the IS350 F-Sport, GS350 F-Sport, Audi's, 3 and 5 series.

The IS350 F-Sport is great when you're pushing things to the limit. When you do that though, you're really doing something unsafe on public roads. Maybe when I was 18 or 21, I'd be foolish enough to do that. The A6 is actually a sportier car than the 5 series, but for luxury/craftsmanship, the 5 series is light years beyond every other car I looked at.

If I really wanted a track car, I'd get a Scion FR-S and race prep it. If I wanted a daily driver with handling as the #1 priority, the new Corvette is, by far, the smarter choice.

For a given budget, these would be my choices:

~ $30K
2 door: FR-S / BR-Z + mods
4 door: G37

~ $60K
2 door: Corvette
4 door: F10 5 series

~ $120K
2 door: GT-R
4 door: Model S

~ $250K
2 door: McLaren MP4-12C
4 door: Aston Martin Rapide

Very well said. You pretty much nailed my choices in the suggested segments and price points with the F10, Corvette (I hate Vette's and know that the new one with its gimmicky and overly sharp body will age terribly, look like an old crude joke in the future, kind of like the Camaro is already as those designs have no smooth timeless value.... however damn does it look intriguing right now), FR-S and Model S.

[mark824]

Just turned 42 and my Bday present is a 2013 550i. Moving from a 2007 550i.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by K-A

I'm sorry but an M3 in every way possible aside from sporting dynamics is vastly inferior to an F10. What I mean is that if you want more luxury, interior quality/design, up to date tech, solidity, safety, craftsmanship, design beauty (IMO), etc. then the F10 is the superior *car*. That's why younger people here buy it. Not everyone thinks that a sportier and harder riding car is bar none better than a larger more luxurious one that wears its price tag more authentically when gauging it holistically.

The first thing you always mention is "Luxury", MBZ guy.

It's also not like F10 is hand stitched together by craftsmen with exotic hand prepared leather or anything either, and despite everyone's badge snobbiness vs. 3 series interiors they aren't "that" different considering it's $10k more for the typical F10. They are coming from the same vast array of parts bins for the most part but are just "bigger."

M3 is made for the track enthusiast and for more aggressive driving, and it obviously does it quite well while also maintaining enough on-street comfort to not rattle your teeth loose and leave you with an L5/S1 disk hernia. Just think of it as a rather uncomfortable massage chair, I guess.

Most F10 buyers are former 5 owners but I am guessing some of the 20-35 somethings in F10 are coming from econoboxes and just want something more expensive, not necessarily better performing then what they had before. Others may perceive themselves as "above" a "lowly" 3 buyer, either financially justified or not, and feel the need to assuage their own insecurity by downgrading the 3 wherever possible.

[GIANITALY]

34

[GLiNTCH]

28 and it's my 6th car (and I didn't have my parents pay for any of them)

[kthankzbye]

Results so far from what I've gathered.

76 total F10 drivers
Average age: 33.69
Oldest: 64
Youngest: 19

[GXAlan]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

The first thing you always mention is "Luxury", MBZ guy.

It's also not like F10 is hand stitched together by craftsmen with exotic hand prepared leather or anything either, and despite everyone's badge snobbiness vs. 3 series interiors they aren't "that" different considering it's $10k more for the typical F10. They are coming from the same vast array of parts bins for the most part but are just "bigger."

Maybe it's just a matter of taste. The money isn't the issue. Where the F10 is nicer is the more tasteful use of wood. It's got a much more organic flow to it in the F10 and the wood in the center console is much nicer than the F30's as is the integrated LCD screen for iDrive.

Where you get the biggest difference is the instrument panel. The standard and the upgraded 6WA black panel are better looking than the F30's setup. With the F10, you can even retrofit the the 6wb MFID.

Most F10 buyers are former 5 owners but I am guessing some of the 20-35 somethings in F10 are coming from econoboxes and just want something more expensive, not necessarily better performing then what they had before. Others may perceive themselves as "above" a "lowly" 3 buyer, either financially justified or not, and feel the need to assuage their own insecurity by downgrading the 3 wherever possible.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions with those comments...

[Texaz3]

37.
5er is my wife's car actually, well, will be when it gets here. Just ordered a '14 535i M-Sport. She drives E60 545i now. I drive other bimmers.
I actually do like F30 much better than F10, due to the way it drives. Looks are subjective, but I like the way it looks better too, so hey. IMO it is much more of a drivers' car than F10.

[skalberti]

About to be 41 in a few days so I ordered a 2014 535 Msport. My wife is 26 so really that makes me like 34. I'm still struggling with my decision to keep my 535 on order, or wait for the new M3. I had a 2008 335 coupe with the Dinan stage 2 before I got my X5, now my X5 seems way too slow. My inner child may get his wish on the M3....

[BimmerBahn]

36.... Decided to p/u a 535d at the same time as my wife's X1..go big or go home, right?

[Jereemmy21]

27...living in the Silicon Valley, most people are late 20s to 30s. 40+ is always a 6, 7, or X5.

[K-A]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

The first thing you always mention is "Luxury", MBZ guy.

It's also not like F10 is hand stitched together by craftsmen with exotic hand prepared leather or anything either, and despite everyone's badge snobbiness vs. 3 series interiors they aren't "that" different considering it's $10k more for the typical F10. They are coming from the same vast array of parts bins for the most part but are just "bigger."

M3 is made for the track enthusiast and for more aggressive driving, and it obviously does it quite well while also maintaining enough on-street comfort to not rattle your teeth loose and leave you with an L5/S1 disk hernia. Just think of it as a rather uncomfortable massage chair, I guess.

Most F10 buyers are former 5 owners but I am guessing some of the 20-35 somethings in F10 are coming from econoboxes and just want something more expensive, not necessarily better performing then what they had before. Others may perceive themselves as "above" a "lowly" 3 buyer, either financially justified or not, and feel the need to assuage their own insecurity by downgrading the 3 wherever possible.

Whaat? The 3 and 5 interiors are entirely different designs. The F10 looks and feels waaaay more than $10K more expensive inside. The 5 uses a lot of different parts being on a Large BMW chassis, in fact. They seem to be from entirely different manufacturers. Things like the 3's poor finish where you can see naked/bare metal between the door and B Pillar trims further drive that point home.

I isn't all about hand stitched this or that. The F10 interior is very high quality and luxurious both to touch and look, a masterful mix of sophistication and sport. You're basically getting a 7 Series interior with an IMO more refined design which is why it's so superior to others in its class inside to me.

Originally Posted by GXAlan

Maybe it's just a matter of taste. The money isn't the issue. Where the F10 is nicer is the more tasteful use of wood. It's got a much more organic flow to it in the F10 and the wood in the center console is much nicer than the F30's as is the integrated LCD screen for iDrive.

Where you get the biggest difference is the instrument panel. The standard and the upgraded 6WA black panel are better looking than the F30's setup. With the F10, you can even retrofit the the 6wb MFID.



I think you're making a lot of assumptions with those comments...

Agreed on all points. Someone please show me an Econobox that can drive like my F10 in its variously combined characteristics, lol.

[WhiteWalker]

31

[HighConcept]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

The first thing you always mention is "Luxury", MBZ guy.

It's also not like F10 is hand stitched together by craftsmen with exotic hand prepared leather or anything either, and despite everyone's badge snobbiness vs. 3 series interiors they aren't "that" different considering it's $10k more for the typical F10. They are coming from the same vast array of parts bins for the most part but are just "bigger."

M3 is made for the track enthusiast and for more aggressive driving, and it obviously does it quite well while also maintaining enough on-street comfort to not rattle your teeth loose and leave you with an L5/S1 disk hernia. Just think of it as a rather uncomfortable massage chair, I guess.

Most F10 buyers are former 5 owners but I am guessing some of the 20-35 somethings in F10 are coming from econoboxes and just want something more expensive, not necessarily better performing then what they had before. Others may perceive themselves as "above" a "lowly" 3 buyer, either financially justified or not, and feel the need to assuage their own insecurity by downgrading the 3 wherever possible.

Regardless if the parts reside from the same bin, it's the design that ultimately determine the results. Imagine similar sized rooms, but one treated by an interior designer and another by someone less experienced -- the professional would proceed to develop a sense of space, create mood through cerebral use of color choice and nuances in contours, then garnish a presence of comfort by establishing proper cadence.

The inexperienced person however, would've rendered the room feeling very diminutive and lets just say...a little less classy. That's how I actually feel sometimes when sitting in any 3er, and for correct reason since it IS a tier lower. It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority or the likes, just an opinion in adjacent to comparing a beer to fine wine.

What K-A did was NOT condescend any class of BMW, but simply expressed his/her opinion to your surmising comment on why he feels these "kids" aren't in an M3. YOUR comment is of pure speculation and prejudice with no resolution. And how is a person assuaging their insecurity by downgrading a 3 when they could've afforded one in place of the 5? I believe that archetype conclusion is in reverse.

And you're 45? I would've never noticed that maturity from these previous posts considering how silly it is to debate such issues because from a subjective point of view, it falls purely on personality and preference. Either way, let's all try and get along because you know...you DO own a 5 series lol.

[K-A]

Originally Posted by HighConcept

Regardless if the parts reside from the same bin, it's the design that ultimately determine the results. Imagine similar sized rooms, but one treated by an interior designer and another by someone less experienced -- the professional would proceed to develop a sense of space, create mood through cerebral use of color choice and nuances in contours, then garnish a presence of comfort by establishing proper cadence.

The inexperienced person however, would've rendered the room feeling very diminutive and lets just say...a little less classy. That's how I actually feel sometimes when sitting in any 3er, and for correct reason since it IS a tier lower. It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority or the likes, just an opinion in adjacent to comparing a beer to fine wine.

What K-A did was NOT condescend any class of BMW, but simply expressed his/her opinion to your surmising comment on why he feels these "kids" aren't in an M3. YOUR comment is of pure speculation and prejudice with no resolution. And how is a person assuaging their insecurity by downgrading a 3 when they could've afforded one in place of the 5? I believe that archetype conclusion is in reverse.

And you're 45? I would've never noticed that maturity from these previous posts considering how silly it is to debate such issues because from a subjective point of view, it falls purely on personality and preference. Either way, let's all try and get along because you know...you DO own a 5 series lol.

Very well said! Love the example of different room designers, spot on.

[Texaz3]

This 3 vs 5 discussion reminds me why online forums are so ridiculous and mostly 20+ hang out here.

[Atombyte]

Originally Posted by Texaz3

This 3 vs 5 discussion reminds me why online forums are so ridiculous and mostly 20+ hang out here.

Exactly. I apparently made the mistake of saying a 2013 5-series isn't superior to a 2013 E92 M3, even though I own both and know the pros and cons of both. They're different animals designed for different purposes. The 5er is better as far as roominess, fuel economy, practicality, and has more modern electronics. The M3 has the superior engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, differential, and steering. Fit and finish between the F10 535 and E92 M3 in my garage are pretty much identical. I seem to be missing the huge gap between the door and B pillar a previous poster was talking about.

What I found interesting is that younger folks in their 20's were going for the 5er. Granted, the 5 is a ridiculously good-looking car, but it is kind of a big car and something I would associate with an older driver. I would've thought younger drivers would go for something a bit less "mature".

[freeewilly]

37.

[GXAlan]

Originally Posted by Atombyte

The 5er is better as far as roominess, fuel economy, practicality, and has more modern electronics. The M3 has the superior engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, differential, and steering.

You hit it spot on. That explains exactly why many Gen Y'ers are going for the F10 instead of the E92 M3. As a generation, Gen Y isn't as interested in driving as Baby Boomer's or Gen X'ers were:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a..._driving_less/

http://www.zdnet.com/generation-y-sm...rs-7000000584/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...sons-you-think

So the gizmos or "modern electronics" that you mention as being better in the F10 is exactly the kind of stuff that appeals to Gen Y.

And it's probably a bit more complicated than that. We grew up in an era of magazines like Import Tuner, movies like the Fast and the Furious, and videogames like Gran Turismo. Most young F10 owners have gone for a 704 suspension, DHP, or they have budgeted for coilovers.

Whereas the dream car of Baby Boomers may have been Steve McQueen's Mustang, and Gen X'ers may have dreamt about a Ferrari Testarossa, Gen Y grew up dreaming about owning a Hachi-Roku or having an RB26 DETT in their car collection...

Speaking for myself, I don't treat public roads as my racetrack. As a result, I don't see the point of an M3 when I can get a much better track car in a modified FR-S:

And the stock FR-S is pretty good. It's a modern era Lotus Elise with, you know, actual US-legal airbags and room for passengers.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...r/viewall.html

[HighConcept]

Originally Posted by Atombyte

Exactly. I apparently made the mistake of saying a 2013 5-series isn't superior to a 2013 E92 M3, even though I own both and know the pros and cons of both. They're different animals designed for different purposes. The 5er is better as far as roominess, fuel economy, practicality, and has more modern electronics. The M3 has the superior engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, differential, and steering. Fit and finish between the F10 535 and E92 M3 in my garage are pretty much identical. I seem to be missing the huge gap between the door and B pillar a previous poster was talking about.

What I found interesting is that younger folks in their 20's were going for the 5er. Granted, the 5 is a ridiculously good-looking car, but it is kind of a big car and something I would associate with an older driver. I would've thought younger drivers would go for something a bit less "mature".

I do agree the whole 3 vs 5 debate you all participated in was a bit off topic. The defense only conformed to K-A as I felt, was insulted on a personal level...then have all 5ers stringed to an age-group generalized within that spectrum.

In retrospect, what's with the profiling and stereotype? A person in their 20s especially mid-late age isn't "mature" enough to indulge in a saloon/sedan and "should" be driving an M3? The possibility doesn't occur maybe by that age some have completed college and already within incipiency of raising a family?

And trust me...plenty of members in their 20s are motoring the M3 than 5s; they just so happen have the proclivity to lounge at the E9x or equivalent section of the forums. Anyway, whatever the age/personality discrepancies are...let's try and diminish the fanboyism a bit.

We should stop disrespecting the OP's natural intention for this thread or its: and

[GXAlan]

Originally Posted by HighConcept

I do agree the whole 3 vs 5 debate you all participated in was a bit off topic... We should stop disrespecting the OP's natural intention for this thread or its: and

Well put. Sorry for the FR-S Turbo vs. McLaren MP4-12C video. (Though I still think it's a worthy off-topic video though).

[joy5]

35 when I got that and 38 now....

... and the last 2 days in my F10. 1st Sep will be in an X5...