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      01-27-2023, 04:25 PM   #287
chris719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
Check this link:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre....226436/page-9

there are several examples, by late page 4 it gets interesting.

It seems electric motor coolant and electric motors / electronics don't make a good combination. I never learned that is any of my EE classes [/sarcasam]

There was a whole class of tesla motors that were shit:

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/I...y-60-000-miles

Early Tesla Model S motors have had reliability issues. Now, a new analysis of data provided to Plug-In America by 327 owners of early Tesla Model S cars suggests that as many as two-thirds of those early Model S drivetrains will need to be replaced within 60,000 miles.

There are plenty of other examples, though I'm sure you didn't look.

Here is an interesting headline:

Dragged down by Tesla, EVs least reliable cars on British roads
https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...nes-says-study
Choosing one model of electric motor to represent the entire future of the segment is disingenuous. You should know that these electric motors on the whole be far more reliable than complex turbocharged GDI engines. Any argument to the contrary is just bullshit. Tesla may have a bad design on some versions, sure. Let's do the comparison to N54 or N63 then. Several examples? There are like hundred+ page threads of dead BMW S85 and S65 engines.

I also question these sources. I know 3 people with early Tesla Model S over 80k miles and none of them have had any drivetrain issues. There is no way 2/3rds of them require motor replacement after 60k. That was a 2015 article, how about following up in the real world?

Like everything else you post in this section, it's misleading and totally disingenuous.

BTW, that thread also shows a few guys rebuilding them which you said was impossible a little while back.
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      01-27-2023, 04:29 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Choosing one model of electric motor to represent the entire future of the segment is disingenuous. You should know that these electric motors on the whole be far more reliable than complex turbocharged GDI engines. Any argument to the contrary is just bullshit. Tesla may have a bad design on some versions, sure. Let's do the comparison to N54 or N63 then. Several examples? There are like hundred+ page threads of dead BMW S85 and S65 engines.

I also question these sources. I know 3 people with early Tesla Model S over 80k miles and none of them have had any drivetrain issues. There is no way 2/3rds of them require motor replacement after 60k. That was a 2015 article, how about following up in the real world?

Like everything else you post in this section, it's misleading and totally disingenuous.

BTW, that thread also shows a few guys rebuilding them which you said was impossible a little while back.

Come on man, Do research before you post

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ailure.256629/

The first link in post 324 was from 2021, it was follow up of the issue written about in 2015. It's real, it happened.
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      01-27-2023, 04:31 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
Come on man, Do research before you post

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ailure.256629/
No, I don't need to know whatever issues Tesla is having to know that over the next decade across the industry the reliability of AC induction motors is going to be like an order of magnitude better than ICE. It is basic physics and reliability engineering. You're just grasping and full of it.

You post a scaremongering article from the Christian Science Monitor about how 2/3rds of Model S drive units will need replacement by 60k miles. That did not hold true. It is bullshit. There is no post 324 in the thread you just linked.

Last edited by chris719; 01-27-2023 at 04:36 PM..
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      01-27-2023, 04:38 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
No, I don't need to know whatever issues Tesla is having to know that over the next decade across the industry the reliability of AC induction motors is going to be like an order of magnitude better than ICE. It is basic physics and reliability engineering. You're just grasping and full of it.
I'm looking at facts, Its an EV reality.

You are looking at your crystal ball, (or is it an magic 8 ball)? Will we ever have reliable EV's? Probably. Will we ever have reliable ICE's why yes, yes will will. We already do in fact.

When tesla moved from dead last in the reliability index to 19th place out of 24 major brands, that's proof of EV progress. Only 18 more places to go.

Last edited by chad86tsi; 01-27-2023 at 04:46 PM..
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      01-27-2023, 04:43 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
I'm looking at facts, Its an EV reality.

You are looking at your crystal ball, (or is it an magic 8 ball)? Will we ever have reliable EV's? Probably. Will we evner have reliable ICE's why yes, yes will will. We already do in fact.

When tesla moved from dead last in the reliability index to 19th place out of 24 major brands, that's proof of EV progress. Only 18 more places to go.
This is an EV thread not a Tesla thread. They may or may not survive or be a dominant player long term. Regardless of Tesla's famous lack of ability to put a car together, it is painfully obvious that electric motors are/can/will be more reliable than complex ICEs. There is nothing more to be said.
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      01-27-2023, 04:52 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post

There is no post 324 in the thread you just linked.
This topic, silly. scroll up a few posts. Read them all before you report back, please.

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I don't need to know whatever issues Tesla is having
I think I have identified your ^ problem, you don't like facts.
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      01-27-2023, 04:55 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
This is an EV thread not a Tesla thread. They may or may not survive or be a dominant player long term. Regardless of Tesla's famous lack of ability to put a car together, it is painfully obvious that electric motors are/can/will be more reliable than complex ICEs. There is nothing more to be said.
there are more Tesla's than all other EV's combined. Current new EV market share is ~65 percent.

The topic point I'm replying to was how cheap they are to keep on the road, and how their motors never fail. They are not cheap to keep drivable, and their motors do fail. All verifiable.
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      01-27-2023, 05:00 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
This topic, silly. scroll up a few posts. Read them all before you report back, please.



I think I have identified your ^ problem, you don't like facts.
I checked. It’s not verification or proof that 60% of drive units needed replacing. The methodology alone is ridiculous. Sampling 300 early units and curve fitting that is not sound. If you do that to the E46 M3 at launch the same way they did this, for example, you would have concluded that every single engine would have died by 60k. 60% of a small group doesn’t mean a lot.

Last edited by chris719; 01-27-2023 at 05:05 PM..
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      01-27-2023, 05:07 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
If you do that to the E46 M3 at launch the same way they did this, for example, you would have concluded that every single engine would have died by 60k.
And if if they had a high failure rate, I'd think a blanket statement that they should last a million miles was inappropriate.

That's the problem with hyperbole, sets you up to defend non-facts.
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      01-27-2023, 05:13 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
And if if they had a high failure rate, I'd think a blanket statement that they should last a million miles was inappropriate.

That's the problem with hyperbole, sets you up to defend non-facts.
We agree on that. Elon Musk says all kinds of bullshit. Full self driving coming “real soon”.

I won’t be caught dead in a Tesla but I’m still pretty confident that they will be cheaper to run than most of the cars they compete with out of warranty. This is a BMW forum, the horror stories are but a click away.
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      01-27-2023, 05:22 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
We agree on that. Elon Musk says all kinds of bullshit. Full self driving coming “real soon”.

I won’t be caught dead in a Tesla but I’m still pretty confident that they will be cheaper to run than most of the cars they compete with out of warranty.
I think in 5 to 7 years, that will be easily proven true for most all brands. Hopefully tesla keeps up with their competition on the quality front. They could do better, lets hope they choose to do so.

Quote:
This is a BMW forum, the horror stories are but a click away.
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      01-27-2023, 06:02 PM   #298
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Chris where in NJ are you? I gotta shake your hand man lol.

And I’ll let you drive my plaid when I get it lol
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      01-27-2023, 08:24 PM   #299
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I don't know what this whole thread is about but I recently tested drove Model Y LR and Audi A5 Sportback Sline. I'd probably take Audi. The fit and finish on Tesla is pretty shitty and it would be hard to drive that everyday. On the other hand, if I look at it from the point of saving some money, less maintenance, maybe it's a good idea to buy one (or perhaps M3P) YLR or M3P cost $44k after tax credit which is reasonable I guess. I have solar panels and about $1200 credit with power company for charging so that makes it even better.

What do you think? Pull the trigger on 2021 Audi fully loaded or Model 3 Performance?

Ps. Audi has Android Auto which is SO much better than useless Tesla tablet. And I do admit that Tesla drives nice too, I dont have a problem with that or EV in general. I even like the exterior design, but interior is just night and day difference and comfort too.
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      01-27-2023, 08:25 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
I don't know what this whole thread is about but I recently tested drove Model Y LR and Audi A5 Sportback Sline. I'd probably take Audi. The fit and finish on Tesla is pretty shitty and it would be hard to drive that everyday. On the other hand, if I look at it from the point of saving some money, less maintenance, maybe it's a good idea to buy one (or perhaps M3P) YLR or M3P cost $44k after tax credit which is reasonable I guess. I have solar panels and about $1200 credit with power company for charging so that makes it even better.

What do you think? Pull the trigger on 2021 Audi fully loaded or Model 3 Performance?
If you go see a Corolla you’ll save even more.
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      01-27-2023, 08:31 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
If you go see a Corolla you’ll save even more.
But at least Tesla is fast and I can charge at home It's not that simple.
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      01-27-2023, 08:34 PM   #302
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But at least Tesla is fast and I can charge at home It's not that simple.
If you know you can live with a M3P, I think it’s a sensible choice.
It isn’t for me because of its limitations, but if you got it figured out, do it. The Audi is nice inside but will grow tired quickly…
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      02-08-2023, 02:54 AM   #303
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Synthetic fuels - light at the end of the tunnel ?
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      02-08-2023, 08:26 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
https://youtu.be/J4EC8cDTvSg

Synthetic fuels - light at the end of the tunnel
I don't understand why hydrogen fuel cell cars aren't getting a bigger push. The synthetic fuels are quite interesting but I suspect no one in government will support it, might be a good transition for the O&G refiners though.
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      02-08-2023, 03:32 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
But at least Tesla is fast and I can charge at home It's not that simple.
It's pretty simple. If you REALLY want to save money you don't buy either of those. Now that we know you don't actually want to save money the choice is much easier. You spent half your post shitting on the Tesla so why would you even consider it. You said "The fit and finish on Tesla is pretty shitty and it would be hard to drive that everyday" so why would you even consider buying it. Get the Audi.
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      02-08-2023, 03:39 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
It's pretty simple. If you REALLY want to save money you don't buy either of those. Now that we know you don't actually want to save money the choice is much easier. You spent half your post shitting on the Tesla so why would you even consider it. You said "The fit and finish on Tesla is pretty shitty and it would be hard to drive that everyday" so why would you even consider buying it. Get the Audi.
That’s good advice. The Audi cost the same as the plaid, but is a tiny bit slower but remarkably better looking. I bet my left pinky finger that the quality is significantly better also on the Audi.
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      02-08-2023, 04:04 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
That’s good advice. The Audi cost the same as the plaid, but is a tiny bit slower but remarkably better looking. I bet my left pinky finger that the quality is significantly better also on the Audi.
tiny bit slower?

the Plaid is untouchable at 1.99 seconds...

the Audi is fast af but would get absolutely demolished at 3.1 seconds

and better looking to YOU
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      02-08-2023, 04:05 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
tiny bit slower?

the Plaid is untouchable at 1.99 seconds...

the Audi is fast af but would get absolutely demolished at 3.1 seconds

and better looking to YOU
I don’t think that’s much of a difference, considering how remarkably better looking the Audi is. I mean the plaid looks almost as bad as a Prius.

Sorry for the edit. I had to ask. Do you really think the Plaid is a good looking car objectively? I mean seriously? Be honest lol
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