[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

What exactly do you mean by this? No oil changes, oil changes after 2 years? Ignoring low oil warning? Oil pumps usually fail if oil is not maintained properly.

Good question. I am 3K miles over last preferred oil change date.

[n3985]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Good question. I am 3K miles over last preferred oil change date.

Date aside, how many miles on the last oil change?

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by n3985

Date aside, how many miles on the last oil change?

11K

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

11K

That's ok, but hopefully its not over a year since the last one

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Well. BMW says needs new engine. Oil pump malfunctioned, or something similar, and they're saying 11K cost on engine. This is the absolute worst case scenario. I mean. BMW corporate out of the question now? Sigh. Please advise

That really stinks. I know your model of engine has had a few problems and maybe you'll get somewhere working with corporate. To me, someone who doesn't have that particular engine and is not 100% familiar with the various issues, I'd like to point something out which no one else has yet...

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

So driving on the highway yesterday, my F10 2012 threw an oil pressure error. Basically told me to stop the car.

I drove for maybe 50 seconds

Never ignore an oil pressure warning.

I'm not sure why you kept driving, and your later comments say you didn't do scheduled oil changes either (and the factory schedule is already very long).

If you had shut down the car like it told you to, you may have only needed a new oil pump, then had some SIB work performed, and been back on the road. You may, truly, have had an oil pump failure (for whatever reason) and it had nothing to do with the other common problems with your engine model. Things fail - and, if memory serves correct, a lot of these engines have electric oil pumps, so it becomes even more likely that the oil pump could fail all on its own.

PSA - ALWAYS heed oil pressure warnings. You can save yourself a lot of grief and prevent things from getting really bad.

Unfortunately - failing to react to a clear warnings of loss of oil pressure and instructions to stop the car is 100% the responsibility of the driver. It would be an uphill battle to shift the responsibility for that to anyone else...

You may be able to work some deals to reduce the cost, or look at alternative engines and mechanics. There have been a couple of threads around from 550 owners who have replaced engines.

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by Surly73

That really stinks. I know your model of engine has had a few problems and maybe you'll get somewhere working with corporate. To me, someone who doesn't have that particular engine and is not 100% familiar with the various issues, I'd like to point something out which no one else has yet...

Never ignore an oil pressure warning.

I'm not sure why you kept driving, and your later comments say you didn't do scheduled oil changes either (and the factory schedule is already very long).

If you had shut down the car like it told you to, you may have only needed a new oil pump, then had some SIB work performed, and been back on the road. You may, truly, have had an oil pump failure (for whatever reason) and it had nothing to do with the other common problems with your engine model. Things fail - and, if memory serves correct, a lot of these engines have electric oil pumps, so it becomes even more likely that the oil pump could fail all on its own.

PSA - ALWAYS heed oil pressure warnings. You can save yourself a lot of grief and prevent things from getting really bad.

Unfortunately - failing to react to a clear warnings of loss of oil pressure and instructions to stop the car is 100% the responsibility of the driver. It would be an uphill battle to shift the responsibility for that to anyone else...

You may be able to work some deals to reduce the cost, or look at alternative engines and mechanics. There have been a couple of threads around from 550 owners who have replaced engines.

Yes. Good point. But it wasn't ignored. I just couldn't stop right away safely.

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

What exactly do you mean by this? No oil changes, oil changes after 2 years? Ignoring low oil warning? Oil pumps usually fail if oil is not maintained properly.

Well. I'm within 15K oil change interval BMW suggests. I guess I feel like I should have changed oil at 6K intervals.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Well. I'm within 15K oil change interval BMW suggests. I guess I feel like I should have changed oil at 6K intervals.

So, what's the story? What is the dealer or BMW saying/doing?

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

So, what's the story? What is the dealer or BMW saying/doing?

Dealer is saying 11K engine replacement. BMW NA is collection information on the case to SEE if they can assist in any way.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Dealer is saying 11K engine replacement. BMW NA is collection information on the case to SEE if they can assist in any way.

Ok. Lets hope they come through for you

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Ok. Lets hope they come through for you

Let's hope. They know I know the SIB ( SIB 11 03 17 ). They know I know N20 engines have had known issues.

They know I know they redesigned the timing chain in later models BECAUSE OF THIS.

I'm not going to let them screw me here.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Let's hope. They know I know the SIB ( SIB 11 03 17 ). They know I know N20 engines have had known issues.

They know I know they redesigned the timing chain in later models BECAUSE OF THIS.

I'm not going to let them screw me here.

Whatever happened with this?

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Whatever happened with this?

I emailed service records to local dealership and they're still trying to work a deal with BMW NA. May hear back today, but definitely this week. They declined the first time to help at all, but I kept pushing.

[AWF10M5]

keep us updated

crossing my fingers for you

On a side note it seems no matter what BMW you buy its a ticking time bomb. N20/N55/N63/S63/S65/N54 the list goes on and on. I know BMW has extended warranties and done recalls, they've been doing that since the N54 days, N63 now N20. Why can't they just engineer something that will last and not require wasted time/money/recalls/etc? Really a big shame.

I used to be a die hard BMW fan and fanatic. Once I woke up from this "abusive" relationship I realized the amount of TIME let alone money that I spend on these cars is ridiculous. I am paying over 100k for some of these cars only to be driving around with coolant bottles and oil bottles in my trunk ?? Car reeking of oil and coolant in 2-3 years. What kind of bullshit is that? They extended the warranties, they did recalls, sure thats cool and all but I am done with that.

You barely see this type of catastrophic failures with other brands. I have other brand luxury cars and the biggest headache brand has been BMW. My addiction and love to them blinded me to the truth but its there right in front of us.

Food for thought

[nos4seasons]

Ok - so to bring a few folks up to speed that don't know the situation:

1. On highway - engine oil pressure low error
2. I pull over - drivetrain error - car says: shutting down to prevent engine damage
3. Tow it. Doesn't even go into neutral. Seems catastrophic.
4. Gets to BMW dealership - call a day later - engine starved of oil, parts scored, needs new motor. Quoted 11 grand.

So I come HERE first. Post this thread. Get you folks involved. And even though none of you know me, or have any affinity for me, you all stepped up. Gave me the SIB for the N20 engine timing chain guide failure. Educated me on the known problem. Gave me a negotiating point.

I get BMW NA involved. Give them the SIB, let them know I'm aware of it. They tell me: good luck kid. You're at 73K miles, and this extended warranty for this issue ended at 70K miles. Take care now.

Obviously I'm pissed, but nowhere near submitting and giving up. I mean after all: if I serviced the vehicle correctly, got oil changes within the intervals, and treated the car right, this should not happen. Sure - I'm out of warranty, and in brass tac terms, I'm fucked. I get it.

But I knew, that since there was a known issue w/ this engine, that was causing seizures, I had somewhat of a case.

But here's the thing (and perhaps the important lesson): at the dealership, I had no advocate. The initial service guy who contacted me with the quote, probably thought: who is this kid. Business guy. Drives a BMW. Wants a freebie. I have no affinity to him.

And I recognized that. So here's what then happened:

1. I reached out to the Service manager at the dealership. The guy above the guy I've been dealing with.
2. I write him a long email, giving some (promising to do all oil changes there), presenting the SIB, stating my case.
3. I convey that I recognize that BMW corporate's decision is heavily influenced by service techs or managers at dealerships.
4. That if they can make a case for me, and be an advocate, I'm in a better place.
5. I request he be that advocate for me, in exchange for all service work being done there, and future purchases being done there, at that dealership.
6. He calls me back. Says: look, I understand your back is against the wall here, and though you're out of warranty on this issue, you're only 3K out. I'm going to try to advocate for you. I've got some conference calls with corporate on the matter coming up, and I'll get back to you. I want to help.
7. I now have an advocate at the dealership (which I didn't have before, which got me declined), to help keep BMW accountable.

About 5 days goes by (now this is important I think - because I've seen this same scenario takes months, attorney letters, and pushing, until BMW corporate either gives in, or in a few cases, buys the car back (writes you a check for something), and I finally get a call back from my advocate at the dealership (service manager). He says:

Ok - This is what's going to happen:

1. BMW NA has agreed this engine is problematic. They acknowledge you've serviced the car correctly (I had to send them a bunch of oil change records that weren't on the Carfax report they initially requested).
2. What they're going to do is, out of the 11K cost, pay 8K of it. If you want to do this, engine will be here in a few days, we'll get it in within a week or so.
3. Come here - we'll give you a loaner in the meantime, a few thousand dollars out of pocket and you're DONE. Car is back on the road.
4. I agreed.

So here we sit. They gave me a new X3 to drive around until this engine replacement is complete. BMW NA is paying for the engine, AND a considerable amount of the labor to install it. They will likely give me a warranty on the motor extended out past 150K. We'll see still in the air.

So even though they didn't goodwill EVERYTHING, they goodwilled MOST of it. I can handle a few thousand dollars. But I wasn't paying 11 when the car was at 73K miles. No one should have to, regardless of service records. As long as you got oil changes on time, no one should have to do that.

BMW NA stepped up, and did what was right here, but not because they wanted to. It was because I calmly, but persistently made my case. Gave them the SIB. Emailed them THIS THREAD, and others like it (like this one: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1089085).

Had the support of all you folks, and then importantly, created an advocate at the dealership. I can't stress how much significance this holds. It's CRITICAL you have someone at your dealership on your side, that has your back.

My advice to myself from here forth, that could be used by anyone else in this same situation: maintain a good relationship with dealership, and particularly, the service tech and managers.

Get service done there. Know your research. Fight for what's right. Rely on the community here to guide you, calmly, but unyieldingly, push for corporate to step up. Have your records. Have a case. And, in a non threatening manner, convey that you're willing to get legal involved if they don't do what's right.

I'm going to post this same reply on the N20 engine seized at 72K miles thread, because the point of this post, besides thanking all of you for your critical help, is to arm other folks with the outline of how to get corporate to step up on these engine failures.

Thank you all for everything. Whatever I can contribute to this forum in the future, I will.

My name is Ryan.

[n3985]

Great closure to a shtty situation.

Buy that service manager something nice for him going to bat for you.

[nos4seasons]

For sure. Or something. I mean - I will have that guy's back from here on out.

[BigKutta]

Ryan (now that we know your name) - Well done, and glad this worked out for you. I knew this would be the outcome for you because of the issue I told you about. As in my case (not as bad as yours), you have to give credit for BMW for stepping up. But on the other hand, shame on them for a shitty product that is likely going into 40% of their cars.

Btw, you handled the situation very well. And the outcome is the result. Here to many more miles

[johnhva]

Ryan you rock making the best of a bad situation. Good job on not taking the hit lying down and using some quiet reason and evidence to make a case to BMW for some relief and getting it -- when a ranting jerk might not have gotten any. And good job convincing the SM to go to bat for you.

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by johnhva

Ryan you rock making the best of a bad situation. Good job on not taking the hit lying down and using some quiet reason and evidence to make a case to BMW for some relief and getting it -- when a ranting jerk might not have gotten any. And good job convincing the SM to go to bat for you.

Man thank you! It was sketchy for a bit there, but I never lost sight of the goal and what I thought was right. And totally - a jerk would have gotten nowhere with them. SA on my side was huge.

[Damage Inc]

Glad to hear this worked out.

Good reminder to keep service up to date, and keep records.

[Stück]

N20's are garbage engines, yours did what N20's do. I beg and plead with my N20 clients to come in every 7500mi for an oil service, so many of them drink the 10, 12, 15k BMW oil service koolaid and I've seen 3 total engine failures in the last 2 years. The N20 also uses a ridiculously obscure 0w20 LLFE14++ oil that chain oil change places don't have, don't care to have, and aren't putting in the engine.

I must admit I'm always amused when someone asks why there isn't an emergency shutdown feature on these cars incase there is a major failure. That feature is positioned behind the wheel :-)

It is normal for the transmission to not go into neutral when the engine isn't running. The 8HP automatics have a pressure reservoir that must be primed to allow gear selection. This reservoir is what allows auto start stop to function, but you only get one hit out of it. When the engine stops while road speed is detected it dumps its charge as a parting gift so you can hopefully coast to a place you can secure the vehicle.

It sounds like your situation turned out as well as it could all things considered.