[Blue Angel]

Agreed, torquing is the harder and far more important part. I just thought I'd post since the DIY posts and videos all seem to highlight the struggle with this particular bolt, and some mention in particular how it's "impossible" to do with an impact tool.

That step proved one of the easier ones for me.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Between that and the fun working around the front driveshafts I never want to do the job again... The rear was a breeze.

On the front I got creative. I decided to unbolt the driveshafts and lower them to get the strut fork out. It works, but barely. Reasoning was because of uncertainty getting the upper control arm out of the way. I saw someone comment that the nut behind the rearward control arm bolt on the passenger side came undone (I guess it's captive somehow?) and required disassembly of a bunch of additional stuff.

Also, on the diesel models like mine there's an electrical control box that requires moving to get the front bolt out on the passenger side. I didn't want to mess with that.

[mashpotato]

How's your ride so far with those springs. I've got Unpsec's set, it moves a bit more, I'm like 9 clicks away from max in the front, that's all I can handle on normal road giving up a little bit roll. Overall it's good.

[Blue Angel]

The last three paragraphs of my preliminary review a few posts back cover most of this.

I'm sure it's a softer ride than yours since you're at 15/24 and 12k/8k springs vs my 14/24 and 10k/7k springs. Having said that, so far I'm pleasantly surprised at how well they absorb high frequency road imperfections without transmitting excess NVH into the cabin. I seem to hear more tire noise than before, but it's not objectionable in my opinion.

So far it's as good or better than I was hoping* (ignoring the lack of compression travel, of course) but I'll have to reserve final judgment until I get everything sorted with springs and preload.

I put an asterisk* up there for people following along who may not understand that lowering/stiffening the suspension of a car actually reduces ride quality 98% of the time. Of course it's all subjective, and the only way to eliminate most of the subjectivity is to keep the car's target market firmly in mind when evaluating such modifications. Hint: the vast majority of 5-Series customers are interested in comfort.

[mashpotato]

Oops, was following and I still missed the post. Yea when I measured it I was skeptical. 7in spring front, with the spring rate, corner weight, min. coil bind height, and no bump stop??? (Maybe a tiny stop inside the dust cover?). I thought it has a chance to bottom out if not careful. Coming from KW v2 from another car it's just weird.

I think with your experience 10k/7k is the most balanced setup but needs the extra length. If I remember correctly the rear 8k spring is 8" but with less weight. I wish these are two way or rebound only adjustable as well, maybe not for this price and flexibility.

I was tempted to go spherical bushing after, but after how much I can feel from this setup, I don't think it's a good idea anymore. Guess I'm sticking with chassis braces addon later.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by mashpotato

Oops, was following and I still missed the post. Yea when I measured it I was skeptical. 7in spring front, with the spring rate, corner weight, min. coil bind height, and no bump stop??? (Maybe a tiny stop inside the dust cover?). I thought it has a chance to bottom out if not careful. Coming from KW v2 from another car it's just weird.

The Silvers do have a bump stop. It's fairly soft and only about 24mm long (just under an inch). Have you had an issue with bottoming out at all?

Originally Posted by mashpotato

I think with your experience 10k/7k is the most balanced setup but needs the extra length. If I remember correctly the rear 8k spring is 8" but with less weight. I wish these are two way or rebound only adjustable as well, maybe not for this price and flexibility.

My gut tells me these could use a touch more default compression damping. They still seem a touch low on compression damping with the 10k/7k springs, but like I said, it's very difficult to tell for sure with such limited suspension travel. Silver's says the damping adjustment does in fact add compression damping with rebound, but it's about 10% compression vs 90% rebound.

Originally Posted by mashpotato

I was tempted to go spherical bushing after, but after how much I can feel from this setup, I don't think it's a good idea anymore. Guess I'm sticking with chassis braces addon later.

Have you ever had a car with spherical joint replacements? I have not, but I can only imagine the amount of NVH they would transmit - totally crazy for a daily driver, likely.

So bad news - my springs are delayed. They were supposed to get here tomorrow but they're still stuck at a shipping hub, no progress in the last 48 hours. Anxiously waiting...

...but on the bright side, I just test-fitted a new wheel/tire and it's going to work out rather well (wasn't sure without trying it out). Definitely not run-of-the-mill new shoes for an F10. Nothing exotic or crazy expensive, just a creative fitment that I think will look badass and handle exceptionally well. Not going to spill the beans until I get them on the car with a properly sorted suspension and alignment. Probably a couple weeks away.

[Blue Angel]

Ok, so I took the car for an alignment and couldn't get the front end done due to the front tie rods being rusted so badly they wouldn't budge. They adjusted the rear, but I had to do what I could with the front with a 24" pipe wrench.

I got the right to move, but the left was seized completely. What a stupid design these are!!! A five year old car and I'm throwing perfectly good suspension parts in the trash because they're rusted beyond adjustability. What a joke… way to go BMW! I have to trash the old parts because I need the steering bellows, and you can't get them off if you can't separate the inner tie rods from the outers. Gotta cut the rods to get the bellows off. Ridiculous. Ok, rant over.

So I ordered new inner and outer tie rods and I should have them installed and the car fully aligned this week.

Turns out my initial impressions were spot-on about needing more low speed compression damping. I'm currently at 22/24 both front and rear and the car will still get unsettled by large dips in the road if hit at the right speed. More to follow on that.

Overall handling and feel of the car is a HUGE improvement over stock. It's a bit stiff with the dampers set so firm, but it's quite livable in my opinion. I have changed more than just the springs/dampers though and the rear camber needs a further tweak, so more details to follow on that as well.

Turns out the 10k/7k springs were binding with 20mm of preload. A completely spectacular failure that didn't even come close to working properly. I ended up bending the lower fork on the front right damper. The replacement showed up this weekend so I'll get that changed while doing the tie rods.

It's been a lot of messing around, but I'm almost there! Good thing I'm not paying a shop $100+/hr or I'd be broke by now, lol.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Ok, so I took the car for an alignment and couldn't get the front end done due to the front tie rods being rusted so badly they wouldn't budge. They adjusted the rear, but I had to do what I could with the front with a 24" pipe wrench.

I got the right to move, but the left was seized completely. What a stupid design these are!!! A five year old car and I'm throwing perfectly good suspension parts in the trash because they're rusted beyond adjustability. What a joke… way to go BMW! I have to trash the old parts because I need the steering bellows, and you can't get them off if you can't separate the inner tie rods from the outers. Gotta cut the rods to get the bellows off. Ridiculous. Ok, rant over.

So I ordered new inner and outer tie rods and I should have them installed and the car fully aligned this week.

Turns out my initial impressions were spot-on about needing more low speed compression damping. I'm currently at 22/24 both front and rear and the car will still get unsettled by large dips in the road if hit at the right speed. More to follow on that.

Overall handling and feel of the car is a HUGE improvement over stock. It's a bit stiff with the dampers set so firm, but it's quite livable in my opinion. I have changed more than just the springs/dampers though and the rear camber needs a further tweak, so more details to follow on that as well.

Turns out the 10k/7k springs were binding with 20mm of preload. A completely spectacular failure that didn't even come close to working properly. I ended up bending the lower fork on the front right damper. The replacement showed up this weekend so I'll get that changed while doing the tie rods.

It's been a lot of messing around, but I'm almost there! Good thing I'm not paying a shop $100+/hr or I'd be broke by now, lol.

When installing new tie rods, fucking SLATHER the threads with anti-seize. It'll really help.

[Blue Angel]

Lol, too bad BMW doesn't subscribe to that when they're screwing these cars together in the factory!!!

Absolutely, I expect to be wiping copious amounts of extra anti-seize off the tie rods after they screw together.

[automaz_]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Lol, too bad BMW doesn't subscribe to that when they're screwing these cars together in the factory!!!

Absolutely, I expect to be wiping copious amounts of extra anti-seize off the tie rods after they screw together.

So I tried contacting kw and apparently they don't make the v3 coilovers anymore. How have your neimax coilovers been? Can't find any other option for my 2012 535 x drive

[SmellyGreek]

Originally Posted by automaz_

So I tried contacting kw and apparently they don't make the v3 coilovers anymore. How have your neimax coilovers been? Can't find any other option for my 2012 535 x drive

I recently installed a set with the 'standard' springs. They are ok, I am still trying to dial in the damping control setting. My only other point of reference to compare to are the Ohlins R&T I have on my 2-series; they are not that but they are better than the worn-out OEM suspension I replaced. I do wish I had the ability to have progressive-rate springs installed, as the initial compression is a bit harsher than stock, but I'm not even sure Swifts will remedy that.

[automaz_]

After calling around and doing research … the swift is only meant for people who want to track their car. For a daily driver I was told my the sales department not to get the swift because I will not feel any difference

[Blue Angel]

Sorry for the late reply, been quite busy lately.

The Neomax are slightly under damped with 12k/8k springs. At softer settings they ride quite comfortably but lack low frequency body control, and undulates an extra cycle or two after a big compression.

I have them set quite firm, 18/24 both front and rear, and they could still use slightly more low frequency damping. At this setting the ride is noticeably harsh. Not unbearable, but likely on the edge for most people. It still undulates 1/2 to 1 cycle extra after a big compression. I never have the car loaded with people, but if I did I suspect this would exacerbate the issue.

From what I can find (credible objective data is very sparse), Swift springs differ from regular coil over springs in that they maintain their rate throughout their travel better, meaning standard springs tend to get stiffer as they compress, even if they are not a progressive design. This seems to be the only sensible information backing why people think they ride better, which makes sense.

In the case of the Neomax (or any other under-damped system), a stiffer spring will amplify any negative effect of being under-damped. My Swift springs may excite the suspension less than the standard springs, but this is only a theory and would be difficult to prove. I suspect the difference would be minor.

I do think the Neomax will be far better than stock dampers and lowering springs, without commanding a big price premium and with the advantage of height adjustment.

The spring rates seem well chosen, and with the stock sway bars results in a decent handling balance. I have added negative camber arms up front which helps, but someone lowering more than 1.25" will have added camber from the suspension curve.

I hope that helps.

[sszablya]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

The Neomax are slightly under damped with 12k/8k springs. At softer settings they ride quite comfortably but lack low frequency body control, and undulates an extra cycle or two after a big compression.

Thanks for doing the research on these. My Xdrive shocks are approaching end of life, so of course I’m looking around for alternatives to the factory setup.

I’m looking for a more comfort-oriented ride but with improved handling characteristics. I already have Eibach sway bars on and noticed those stiffened the ride noticeably, so I’m weary of putting too stiff of a spring on it.

These 12k/8k springs are the 9” version you mentioned in a previous post? Is that the “standard” length?

With your experience with the company and the product, would you order these again, and any special configuration that you’d recommend?

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by sszablya

Thanks for doing the research on these. My Xdrive shocks are approaching end of life, so of course I’m looking around for alternatives to the factory setup.

I’m looking for a more comfort-oriented ride but with improved handling characteristics. I already have Eibach sway bars on and noticed those stiffened the ride noticeably, so I’m weary of putting too stiff of a spring on it.

These 12k/8k springs are the 9” version you mentioned in a previous post? Is that the “standard” length?

With your experience with the company and the product, would you order these again, and any special configuration that you’d recommend?

I must say the tech support from Silvers was very good. It was easy to get someone on the line to discuss technical issues with.

IIRC, the standard spring length is 7". I would definitely recommend a 9" spring regardless of whether you decide to do the Swift upgrade or not. Personally, I would not bother with the Swift springs as long as the standard springs are available in 9" length. Two reasons for specifying 9" length:

1. Less likely to coil bind. A 9" spring will have slightly more travel than a 7" spring.
2. Better access to spring perches when installed on the car. With the 7" springs the perches were too high in the wheel well to be adjusted easily. To be 100% fair, my standard 7" springs were of a softer than recommended rate (10k/7k) and may have resulted in the perches being a bit higher than the standard rate springs, but still, the 9" springs still leave LOTS of room for adjustment and position the perches for much easier access.

Just a few weeks ago I changed over to a set of KW V3, I found a used set for sale for a good price. I'm using the KWs at the factory recommended settings and have not yet messed with them. My impressions of both suspensions, in a nutshell:

Silvers Neomax with 9" long Swift 12k/8k springs (recommended rates), set 18/24 front and rear:

Reasonably comfortable, spring rates seem good with nice handling balance. I had them set to 18/24 firm in an attempt to keep low speed body oscillations under control, but even set that firm they allowed a bit too much motion after large compressions. I didn't go any stiffer as this setting was starting to affect ride quality. My opinion is they could use slightly more low speed compression damping. Slightly thicker oil might be the answer?

There's a slight increase in tire noise/harshness transmitted into the body as they do not have thick rubber isolators on top of the springs like the OEM/KW setup does. The difference is very slight though, and some people might not even notice the difference especially if using a less aggressive/smoother riding tire (I use Firestone Indy 500's).

A far better solution than lowering springs on stock shocks, with the added benefit of height adjustability. They also have threaded lower mounts which allow setting ride height independently of shock travel, which is kind of nice.

KW V3, set to factory default settings:

The KWs have slightly softer spring rates than the Silvers but make up for that with WAY more damping. Body control is much better, large impact absorption is better, but the ride over rough/patched/broken pavement can be pretty "busy" with a lot of jostling. I've considered lowering the bump stiffness slightly to see if that improves the ride, but I do like how the KWs handle larger road imperfections and less damping would likely be a compromise. I'm on my winter tires right now, I'll probably leave the settings as they are and make a final judgement once I'm back on summer wheels/tires.

Many consider the KWs the ultimate street suspension option for the F10. After reading so many glowing reviews I will say I'm a bit surprised at how firm they are in their factory settings. They're not terribly stiff, but they are very tight and controlled. I have a stretch of road nearby that's in pretty bad shape, and I wonder if that type of patchy imperfections just happens to expose their one weakness? I haven't driven on them much yet, and this particular road is the only place they seem to act up, so perhaps with some more seat time I will grow to like them more. I will say they perform admirably just about everywhere else I've taken them.

Overall it's easy to say the KWs are superior to the Silvers, but given the KWs cost more than twice what the Silvers do this is to be somewhat expected. The Silvers ride a bit better the way I had them set up, but their lack of low frequency body control made them feel sloppy over large undulations. The KWs have far better damping and body control, and the busy ride over patchy pavement might just be the inevitable tradeoff for that.

I feel the Silvers could be much improved if they had slightly more low speed damping. If they did they could be much closer to the KWs and an incredible value. For the price they're not bad, just too floaty over big bumps.

I hope that helps. Also note I'm an extremely picky customer.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

The KWs have slightly softer spring rates than the Silvers but make up for that with WAY more damping. Body control is much better, large impact absorption is better, but the ride over rough/patched/broken pavement can be pretty "busy" with a lot of jostling. I've considered lowering the bump stiffness slightly to see if that improves the ride, but I do like how the KWs handle larger road imperfections and less damping would likely be a compromise. I'm on my winter tires right now, I'll probably leave the settings as they are and make a final judgement once I'm back on summer wheels/tires.

Just as a data point - I took two clicks out of compression on my V3s in the first couple of days I had them on and haven't looked back. After two years on the car I was starting to pick up on a little bit of wheel bounce in some situations (and was concerned that my V3 dampers were started to wear out) so I clicked compression one click firmer. I'll be going back.

For another person/driver, the factory setting might be just fine, but it was a little too firm for my age/use. Compression two clicks softer still has perfect body control IMO and took the edge of sharpness off of the every day use.

The body control, especially of the rear, was the first thing that blew my mind when I put the KWs on. Also, for reference, I am running higher ride height than the initial KW setting. I was probably about 2/3 up the recommended range when I installed them. Before my latest routine alignment in the fall I raised all four corners another 5mm. I'd have to dig through my records to find precise measurements to post, but it's somewhere around 25-30mm lower than factory at the present height, amounting to 1/2-1 finger of wheel well gap. Still noticeably lower/tighter than factory F10s (even RWD 704s) but better clearance for every day situations, especially winter driving.

[sszablya]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

I hope that helps. Also note I'm an extremely picky customer.

This is awesome, thank you! I really appreciate the summary of your overall experience. I reached out to the silvers sales email address and they were pretty quick about getting back to me.

I also noticed on the Swift website that they offer progressive winds for OE lowering for other cars. I wonder if they’ll do a progressive wind for coilovers and if that would address the concerns with low speed oscillations.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by sszablya

I also noticed on the Swift website that they offer progressive winds for OE lowering for other cars. I wonder if they’ll do a progressive wind for coilovers and if that would address the concerns with low speed oscillations.

It's possible that could help. For it to work with the coilovers they would have to offer this in a standard size coilover spring though, so I'm not sure if this is an option.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Just as a data point - I took two clicks out of compression on my V3s in the first couple of days I had them on and haven't looked back... ...For another person/driver, the factory setting might be just fine, but it was a little too firm for my age/use. Compression two clicks softer still has perfect body control IMO and took the edge of sharpness off of the every day use.

Sounds like my initial impressions are not far off from your conclusions. Good to see I'm probably on the right track. Hearing your feedback, I'm wondering if one click softer will be enough to take the edge off for me? Generally I like the way it rides, just the odd time on specific roads I feel it's too busy.

Originally Posted by Surly73

After two years on the car I was starting to pick up on a little bit of wheel bounce in some situations (and was concerned that my V3 dampers were started to wear out) so I clicked compression one click firmer. I'll be going back.

I wonder if this could be due to the factory shock mount bushings wearing out? In all my reading on the KWs I remember one person with an F30 (I think) who claimed he had to upgrade to a stiffer Dinan shock mount to get his car to settle down and get the most of his stiffer KW dampers on track. His issue was wheel control over bumps and curbing, the soft stock bushings created a sloppy connection between damper and chassis.

I considered upgrading to the M5 upper mounts for this reason but never found them for a decent price and ended up just re-using my existing mounts. The M5 uses specific part numbers I assume because they are stiffer to handle its stiffer shocks. I also wonder if a stiffer mount would result in better bump absorption with V3s since a stiffer mount would force the shock to react quicker, triggering the fast response valve on less sharp impacts?

On the issue of the V3 wearing out, I watched a video review where someone had put over 100k miles on a set in an Acura NSX. They put the old shocks on a dyno and they were still working, though their damping profile had shifted slightly compared to a new unit. They are rebuildable should they ever wear out, but they certainly seem capable of surviving many years of street/track use.

Originally Posted by Surly73

The body control, especially of the rear, was the first thing that blew my mind when I put the KWs on. Also, for reference, I am running higher ride height than the initial KW setting. I was probably about 2/3 up the recommended range when I installed them. Before my latest routine alignment in the fall I raised all four corners another 5mm. I'd have to dig through my records to find precise measurements to post, but it's somewhere around 25-30mm lower than factory at the present height, amounting to 1/2-1 finger of wheel well gap. Still noticeably lower/tighter than factory F10s (even RWD 704s) but better clearance for every day situations, especially winter driving.

According to my records I'm running about 32mm lower in the front and 23mm lower in the rear than the standard suspension. With 1" taller (26.7" diameter) tires the tread is about even with the fender and the car is only 3/4" F and 1/2" R closer to the ground, so still lots of winter clearance and still decent suspension travel.

There is a bridge on my commute to work that has some aggressive ramps up and down. I was hoping the KWs with their heavy damping would allow me to cruise over this bridge at speed without bottoming out, but that proved an overly optimistic expectation. It's not the end of the world as most traffic slows down for this bridge anyway, and the situation is much improved over the Silvers which required slowing down quite a bit more. This one obstacle is my main deterrent to reducing the compression damping, but the compromise seems necessary.

QUESTION: If your car is XDrive, is the included KW adjustment knob capable of adjusting the front dampers? IIRC, the reach wasn't sufficient to get to the screws and I needed an allen key.

[ChiNorm]

"QUESTION: If your car is XDrive, is the included KW adjustment knob capable of adjusting the front dampers? IIRC, the reach wasn't sufficient to get to the screws and I needed an allen key."

Rebound yes, bump no.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by ChiNorm

Rebound yes, bump no.

Yes, I meant just the bump adjustment, should have clarified. Thanks!

So what is the recommended approach for bump adjustment on the XDrive V3 then? A custom length Allen key? I don’t believe my 2mm key is long enough on it’s short side.

[cdmulders]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

There is a bridge on my commute to work that has some aggressive ramps up and down.

I lived in Ottawa for a total of 9 years (posted there three times while in the RCAF). Which bridge? Just curious. Cheers!