[VAB5]

During the winter we drive out to West Virginia several times, and most of the time there is snow on the ground. My main concern isn't ground clearance, rather it's simple traction on snowy/hilly roads. I've gotten stuck in a FWD minivan with regular all-seasons before.

I don't have RWD experience with modern winter tires. I did fine with a '99 Passat FWD with winter tires back in the early 2000's in the same location.

How will the RWD 535i do in the snow with winter tires? Will I miss xDrive getting out of a slightly hilly driveway?

[Bbb34]

I owned one for 6 years - just traded it in recently (with great sadness), and had zero issues during the harsh, harsh Canadian winters. Worth mentioning I'm an avid downhill skier and took that thing absolutely everywhere, never delayed or avoided the trip because of RWD. Being huge fan of Nokian tires, I got them for my F10 as well and had just a great time with this combo (though not a crazy amount of hills where I live to be fair - aside from mentioned ski hill trips).

My wife managed to get stuck once, a block from our house actually , but that was clearance and lack of experience, perhaps more than "RWD issue". That said, her Outback is absolutely a lot better winter vehicle (with winter tires, monster in the snow to be honest), hard to argue that.

So, while it "can be done" with absolute safety and fun, chances are, yes, you will miss xDrive in the winter - but overall, I found RWD F10 to be a lot nicer handling vehicle and trade-off was worth it for me. You will not be able to take off the line as fast with RWD of course, and will not be able to be as "silly" and "careless" (not that you should anyway) as you could with well implemented AWD like above mentioned Subaru, but if RWD is what you want, yes, absolutely it can be done.

However, I wouldn't personally even dream of driving it on snow covered roads with all season tires.

[Bbb34]

Hope you don't mind me adding few "archived" photos to your thread (taken over several winters). Just to, again, show you that, yes, with good winter tires, it's perfectly "fine" to drive these in the snow. Electronics in these cars are fantastic, just don't, ever, never put it in sport+ on snowy and icy roads.

[Trian]

I lived in Canada for a number of years, and the quality of the tires (and being winter tires) is all you have to think about. AWD is better, but RWD is nearly just as good, tires being equal.

[VAB5]

Which tires do you Canadians rely on?

[cdmulders]

I love my Nokian Hakkapeliitta. Finland knows how to make snow tires!

[ezaircon4jc]

It's more about balance than driving wheels. My 1st FAA facility was SLC and I bought into the "FWD is superior in the snow" mantra. Man, was I fooled. That thing (a 1982 LeBaron; alias K-car) was downright dangerous in the snow; it slid everywhere. Our previous car was a 1978 RWD Plymouth Sapporo that did just fine the few times I had to drive in the snow. I read an article a few years ago comparing AWD to RWD to FWD. The FWD was the clear loser, with the AWD beating the RWD in off the line traction and another category that escapes me.

[walmark]

Not to hijack but on a similar topic. I'm in Northern California and take several day ski trips to Tahoe during the season. And while it can be very snowy and icy up in the Sierras, coming back to the Bay Area the temperature is usually 50F-60F during commute times. So I'm trying to find a solution for the RWD F10.
I have chains, but those are last resort, and do nothing for you in the trunk when you suddenly hit a snow or ice patch. Dedicated winter tires would be great for the trip, but then my daily commute would quickly kill them (not to mention they are soft and dangerous when temps are warm). And I'm NOT planning to swap wheels/tires every weekend!
I have recently found Vredestein tires at tire rack. They are all season, but also "Severe Snow Service" rated (3 Mountain Peaks symbol). The reviews seem pretty positive. Would that be a good solution? Or is it just as deadly as regular all seasons?

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...um=445YR8QTPXL

[BurrNinja]

One thing I can add, I owned a e90 328i rwd originally had all seasons it was terrible, rear end constantly swaying back and forth no matter the amount of gas I gave. Eventually I swapped some winter tires on general altimax artic it was night and day difference. I could rush past everyone. Stopping was easier, had no traction issues at all.

[Surly73]

I drove nothing but RWD for a long time up here. There's no doubt the X-Drive is "better" when push comes to shove, but with winter tires my RWDs got around just fine and my larger issue was usually ground clearance and not traction. It also depends on what kind of snow and winter you get. In my area our heaviest weather events are also usually "warm". So wind blown heavy snow, then it warms, then some freezing rain, then some rain, then it plunges back to -10. They throw salt all over and melt the stuff and turn everything into this heavy cookie dough crap that nothing can grip. Then there's an inch of standing brine for a day. Then it's bone dry and chalk white for 3 days. The few times I've experienced heavy, cold, "dry" snow (like a foot of powder) the RWDs were a blast.

Remember - AWD only changes accelerating. Stopping and turning it makes no difference (excluding torque vectoring rally driving techniques).

I've been running Hakkapeliittas for a while too. I have a set of R2s for the F10 right now. They are losing ground and are not king any more from the research I've done. They're also prone to understeer (on our platform at least) for whatever reason and they REALLY kill the BMWness in wet and dry conditions.

Anyone making a purchase now should take a good hard look at the new "Michelin X-Ice Snow". I haven't decided yet whether I'm replacing my winter tires this fall. If I am, I'm probably leaving Hakka and getting those new Michelins. (or PA4s lol)

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Surly73

I've been running Hakkapeliittas for a while too. I have a set of R2s for the F10 right now. They are losing ground and are not king any more from the research I've done. They're also prone to understeer (on our platform at least) for whatever reason and they REALLY kill the BMWness in wet and dry conditions.

Anyone making a purchase now should take a good hard look at the new "Michelin X-Ice Snow". I haven't decided yet whether I'm replacing my winter tires this fall. If I am, I'm probably leaving Hakka and getting those new Michelins. (or PA4s lol)

Not to start a debate, just want to offer ever so slightly different opinion.

In my experience X-ice is a great tire indeed (we still have a set on my wife's car), but doesn't quite measure up to Hakkapeliitta in lateral grip and stopping power (for me Nokian also lasted longer than Michelin - I've had them on my last 3 vehicles and soon will be buying another set for new one).

They can be a bit (really not bad) noisy on dry and wet roads and like all winter tires, will feel soft when it warms up a bit, but personally I don't care for "BMW(ness)" as you called it during those 4-5 months when I need additional grip. Runflat Dunlop which I also had on F10 were part of BMW winter package is amazing tire in every way, but in my opinion, way too expensive and "shredded" in no time for me. Two winters and they were gone (they did provide more of that "performance" feel, but again, not something I'm after during winter months).

In my many years on driving on snow covered roads for at least 4 months a year, nothing came close to Nokian.

Now, from what I read, new Michelin winter tires are even better better performing than X-ice 2, and Nokian's R3 had some critics online (for whatever it's worth), so possible Michelin got closer, or better than Nokian, hard for me to tell, but in the past, in my experience at least, the difference was obvious (Nokian usually being about $20 more per tire too, another thing to consider).

Both are great, hard to go wrong with either of these tires in my opinion.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by walmark

Not to hijack but on a similar topic. I'm in Northern California and take several day ski trips to Tahoe during the season. And while it can be very snowy and icy up in the Sierras, coming back to the Bay Area the temperature is usually 50F-60F during commute times. So I'm trying to find a solution for the RWD F10.

This brings back good memories from two years ago.

Buying "chains" in Sacramento Walmart at +20 degrees Celsius only to be pulled over soon after and installing chains on my rental Toyota FWD next to a guy in Mustang GT (in heavy falling wet snow).

Boy did we ever need them about 20 min later.

You guys are in a really strange situation over there. Dedicated winter tires seem like a waste of money and would get destroyed fast on pavement in warm temperatures but trips to Tahoe are, well.. you know, dicey at times (but oh-so-worth-it... and then some).

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Not to start a debate, just want to offer ever so slightly different opinion.

In my experience X-ice is a great tire indeed (we still have a set on my wife's car), but doesn't quite measure up to Hakkapeliitta in lateral grip and stopping power (for me Nokian also lasted longer than Michelin - I've had them on my last 3 vehicles and soon will be buying another set for new one).

I'm right onboard with you, but I'm talking about the BRAND NEW "X-Ice Snow", not the Xi3. The Xi3 was briefly on my short list last time around but removed.

They can be a bit (really not bad) noisy on dry and wet roads and like all winter tires, will feel soft when it warms up a bit, but personally I don't care for "BMW(ness)" as you called it during those 4-5 months when I need additional grip. Runflat Dunlop which I also had on F10 were part of BMW winter package is amazing tire in every way, but in my opinion, way too expensive and "shredded" in no time for me. Two winters and they were gone (they did provide more of that "performance" feel, but again, not something I'm after during winter months).

In my many years on driving on snow covered roads for at least 4 months a year, nothing came close to Nokian.

Now, from what I read, new Michelin winter tires are even better better performing than X-ice 2, and Nokian's R3 had some critics online (for whatever it's worth), so possible Michelin got closer, or better than Nokian, hard for me to tell, but in the past, in my experience at least, the difference was obvious (Nokian usually being about $20 more per tire too, another thing to consider).

Both are great, hard to go wrong with either of these tires in my opinion.

Over the last 25 years or so I've run the following winter tires:

• Michelin XMS100 - meh
• Michelin Arctic Alpin - great winter traction, Q-speed rated felt unsafe over 100kph in the dry
• Dunlop Winter Sport M3 - H rated purchased to make up for the Alpins - very poor winter grip after a coupe of months, sliding into intersections unable to stop from 15mph while no one around me had trouble. Wore great. Threw them away with 8-9/32" on them
• Hakkapelliitta RSis - to compensate for winter traction issues on the M3s. Good winter traction, compromised wet and dry. Some kind of serious compound issue made them dangerous in the wet over 5-7C - like "don't go out" dangerous, oil all over the road dangerous. When it was -15C or lower they were outright amazing even in the dry. I think the RSis needed a harsher winter to work properly.
• Blizzak WS60 - came with my E90 after my E39 was totaled. "not as bad as I thought they'd be" in any respect, including dry.
• Dunlop WinterSport 3D - came with the F10. Did well in snow, dry, wet but there was one kind of packing snow they couldn't deal with, felt like I had Pilot Sports on. They "dried out" before they wore out
• Hakkapeliitta R2 - currently on the F10. Promotes understeer in all conditions I don't get from other tires. Great winter traction. Wet and dry highly compromised. I tippy-toe, literally tippy toe, for 5-6 months to avoid shredding them. When it's nasty out, I enjoy going out because they're unstoppable. Other drivers WITH WINTER TIRES are sliding, ABS, having trouble getting started at stop signs and I can LAUNCH, pressing myself back into the seat and drive circles around every one

"In the family" I also had Michelin PA, PA2, Pirelli SnowSport 210, Hakka 2 (not R2) and a few others.

If testers are out there saying that the new X-Ice SNOW is as good as the R3 (or even close to it) in winter conditions, has less mysterious understeer in all conditions, wears better, and compromises wet/dry far less, we might have a winner.

If those testers are lying, well....

I don't drive on "snow covered roads 4 months per year". I drive in the cold 6 months per year, getting dumped on every 2-10 days with snow, sleet, slush, freezing rain which then gets salted to death, runs off, and I'm back to dry/wet. I need winter tires, but I don't get to drive on packed snow all winter. Honestly I've said many times to friends that I wish they'd just plow the roads to get the bulk off and leave us all to drive on the packed snow. Of course it's a little too warm and we'd have glare polished ice everywhere instead.

My climate really sucks for choosing winter tires.

On a related note, if they start to produce them in my size, I might switch from PS4S to the new PS4 All-Season for my summer tires. Not because I expect to drive in the snow, but I bet I could run those another 4-8 weeks of the year that is too cold or sees the odd dusting of snow so I can't run summers but without switching to my full winter tires. Depending on the weather I could put winters on in Dec and take the winters off in late Feb early March. The PS4 A/S sounds so good I probably won't miss the difference between those and the PS4S.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Surly73

I
I don't drive on "snow covered roads 4 months per year". I drive in the cold 6 months per year, getting dumped on every 2-10 days with snow, sleet, slush, freezing rain which then gets salted to death, runs off, and I'm back to dry/wet. I need winter tires, but I don't get to drive on packed snow all winter. Honestly I've said many times to friends that I wish they'd just plow the roads to get the bulk off and leave us all to drive on the packed snow. Of course it's a little too warm and we'd have glare polished ice everywhere instead.

Yeah, Oakville just isn't anywhere as harsh as nation's capital and further north or northeast into Quebec, or upstate New York or Vermont, which is what I frequent a lot in the winter. Though, there's weird snow belt somewhere round London/Kitchener area if I remember correctly.

You guys "need" winter tires, but, could, sometimes just could get away without if you are able to not get on the road during the worst of it (though, not what I would recommend to majority of Ontario or anywhere in Quebec, not with RWD anyway).

We're likely splitting hairs here, *most* winter tires will do way better than all season tires, zero doubt about that.

Same as you, I did consider all seasons, but my logic was that since I always had dedicated winter tires, I wanted to get best ride possible the rest of the year. Bridgestone Potenza's S-04 served me really well in my two previous vehicles, so I continued with F10 and had no regrets. They wear fast, and from what I read are ever so slightly softer cornering than PS4, but every time I was tempted to go to Michelin PS4, could never quite justify $70-100 per tire price difference.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Yeah, Oakville just isn't anywhere as harsh as nation's capital and further north or northeast into Quebec, or upstate New York or Vermont, which is what I frequent a lot in the winter. Though, there's weird snow belt somewhere round London/Kitchener area if I remember correctly.

Yep and I'm out that way often too. That's all lake effect. It is absolutely an annoying climate to shop for. El Nino - rip them to shreds on dry pavement La Nina - driving on the performance snows wishing you bought better.

Anyhow - if those new Michelins are all they're said to be, I may be giving them a shot. And, to all those driving in winter conditions - get SOME kind of winter tires. Debating X-Ice Snow vs. R3s vs. WS90 -- any proper winter tire puts you way ahead of an all season.

[TheUtahX5M]

After several variants Of the F10 since 2011, and the first a 2011 RWD M Sport that I took with me when I moved from Arizona to Salt Lake City. Even with snow tires on 18" wheels, I hated it in the snow. Any type of incline and I was stuck on ice or snow. I took the car back to Phoenix and sold it, and caught a one way flight back to Utah. I picked up a 2014 535d Xdrive and actually still have it to this day. The thing is an absolute snow plow in the winter. I've been buried in snow and it's as if I were riding a snowmobile. I will never do RWD in winter climate ever again.

[TEF]

I am living in a lake-effect snow belt between Buffalo and Cleveland on Lake Erie with as much as 200 inches of snow annually. When the Blizzak tires first appeared about 20 years ago, they were clearly superior to other winter tires at the time. However, the rubber compound used in them is pretty much shared by the entire tire industry, so I don't believe that one brand or another is the "best". However, what seems to make the most difference is not brand, but that one gets the narrowest tire available for a vehicle. So for a 5 series sedan go with the skinniest wheel/tire combination offered for that car. Specifically, that is a 225/55 -17 winter tire on an 8" rim. (Yes, the base 528i came with these tires and rims). Slim tires cut through snow and give a better grip to the pavement below rather than floating on the stuff. This is as important for braking as it is for going. BTW, higher profile tires better handle those massive winter potholes without tire and wheel damage.

With winter tires my 535d xdrive I drove through 24" of snow without getting stuck. I did, however, pack a lot of snow in my grill.

[Boulder Bill]

I'm on my second 5 series, with a total of about 18 years of experience now.

Both vehicles were/are rear wheel drive (you can't get xdrive with a manual transmission).

I change out my wheels twice a year and have a dedicated winter set from usually early November until the end of March.

Colorado has variable weather, and in large storms, rear wheel drive has never been a problem. Clearance can be, but x-drive would hardly help with that.

Rear wheel drive is inferior if you have to come to a stop on a hill or need to negotiate a steep and snowy/icy ramp. But in most other situations, I don't perceive much of a difference. In same ways I actually prefer the rear wheel drive interface with snowy roads, perhaps out of familiarity.

I have owned all wheel drive sedans (the Audi Quattro is a nice system). We also have SUV's with all season tires that are incredibly capable. But when the heavy stuff comes down, the 5 series is usually in the garage.

Bill

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

...
Rear wheel drive is inferior if you have to come to a stop on a hill or need to negotiate a steep and snowy/icy ramp....

Bill

For the record, so is FWD. When we lived in SLC we had a K-Car (it was a Le Baron... don't judge me ) and our house had a steepish driveway. When we had any serious snow I would have to shovel the driveway before I could get into the garage.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

For the record, so is FWD. When we lived in SLC we had a K-Car (it was a Le Baron... don't judge me ) and our house had a steepish driveway. When we had any serious snow I would have to shovel the driveway before I could get into the garage.

Not as bad if you go up in reverse... lol... kidding of course.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Not as bad if you go up in reverse... lol... kidding of course.

Know what? I actually tried that! I got up a little further, but not much before the rear (front?) started slipping sideways.

[czarodzi]

Snow tire conversations in September are just another sign that we're at the end of summer!
I have been driving my 535i and before that an E39 530 through many winters and agree with a lot of the posts here - go with narrower tread and smaller diameter wheels. It's a much more confidence inspiring setup. I'm happy with the Michelin X-Ice XI3. Traction is great, I just worry about the low clearance and the risk to the lower bumper or underbody panels.