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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Pix of "Lifetime" Auto Trans Fluid
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      09-12-2019, 04:44 AM   #1
Tasmanian
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Pix of "Lifetime" Auto Trans Fluid

F10 Fans

After 2 trips to the dealer (and a code reading of $160) to no avail, our intermittent 2 to 1 downshift lurching continued. This mainly happened after the trans was warm.

They claimed since there was no codes and that it occurred randomly, there was no problem. They told me to buy 4 new matching tires to ensure the diameters all match-which helped a little.

A second dealer wanted $1,115 to do a total flush!

Finally, I took a chance and ordered new fluid and a pan kit and gave it to my local garage and gave them instructions what to do (they do not work on BMW's but mostly older American cars).

They did the minimum change and drained 4 liters and then refilled w/4 liters. Did they follow the procedure to run it warm, etc....I don't know.

But I do know they refilled it with exactly 4 liters.

Even with only changing 4 of 10 liters, the transmission shifts better. The lurch is gone. We will probably change it again in 10,000 miles and keep using the same pan (new gasket).

So far, so good.

Tasmanian
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      09-12-2019, 08:31 AM   #2
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How many miles on the original fluid?
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      09-12-2019, 10:22 AM   #3
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The impact of changing the PAN (where the filter is) may have had a larger impact than changing of 40% of the fluid.

Either way - filter and fluid are not LIFETIME and should be serviced. I only had 70,000km on my 535 and I noticed improvements.

It was a half-day job, but not all that bad. Better than I was expecting based on similar work I performed on an E39 in the past.
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      09-12-2019, 10:50 AM   #4
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Ya the entire lifetime thing is B.S., no fluid is lifetime unless your definition of lifetime is about 6 years or 70k miles. BMW is on crack saying that thinking it's a good marketing tactic. ZF themselves reccomend 70k oil/filter changes. BTW, if you loosen the valve body from the transmission (don't have to remove it). You will drain another two liters out. I'm about to do mine again along with installing new solenoids (150k on it)
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      09-12-2019, 06:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck View Post
Ya the entire lifetime thing is B.S., no fluid is lifetime unless your definition of lifetime is about 6 years or 70k miles. BMW is on crack saying that thinking it's a good marketing tactic. ZF themselves reccomend 70k oil/filter changes. BTW, if you loosen the valve body from the transmission (don't have to remove it). You will drain another two liters out. I'm about to do mine again along with installing new solenoids (150k on it)
BMW isn't the only manufacturer to claim lifetime fluids.
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      09-12-2019, 06:51 PM   #6
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Hi All

I forgot to add that there were 82,000 miles on the original fluid.

Shifting continues to be better than before the change.

Tasmanian.
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      09-13-2019, 12:09 AM   #7
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just did this at 97,000
can confirm 4L is all that drains out and goes back in.

lots of metal shavings found in magnets.
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      09-13-2019, 05:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkstar9 View Post
just did this at 97,000
can confirm 4L is all that drains out and goes back in.

lots of metal shavings found in magnets.
Was this the first time you changed the fluid? I've been on the fence about getting it done and I am at 94k. I know Mike had it done for first time at 135k and all seems good for him.
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      09-13-2019, 10:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkgraphiteNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkstar9 View Post
just did this at 97,000
can confirm 4L is all that drains out and goes back in.

lots of metal shavings found in magnets.
Was this the first time you changed the fluid? I've been on the fence about getting it done and I am at 94k. I know Mike had it done for first time at 135k and all seems good for him.
Positive it has never been done before.
Shifting improved significantly.
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      09-14-2019, 07:51 AM   #10
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Ok, good to know. I think I will just roll the dice since 'knock on wood' the shifting seems fine for now. If problems develop then I will get it done.
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      09-16-2019, 10:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck View Post
Ya the entire lifetime thing is B.S., no fluid is lifetime unless your definition of lifetime is about 6 years or 70k miles. BMW is on crack saying that thinking it's a good marketing tactic. ZF themselves reccomend 70k oil/filter changes. BTW, if you loosen the valve body from the transmission (don't have to remove it). You will drain another two liters out. I'm about to do mine again along with installing new solenoids (150k on it)
Any pics of loosing the valve body and Solenoids replacement would be appreciated
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      09-16-2019, 03:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW535iva View Post
Any pics of loosing the valve body and Solenoids replacement would be appreciated
Sure thing, actually going to make a short video on it and post it up. Will be about a week before I get to it though, doing the valve guide seals, injectors, coils, water pump, etc right now, then will be moving on to doing the transmission 150K mile refresh. Will post back here once the video is up
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      10-16-2019, 08:36 AM   #13
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any progress to tranny fluid change
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      10-16-2019, 09:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck View Post
Sure thing, actually going to make a short video on it and post it up. Will be about a week before I get to it though, doing the valve guide seals, injectors, coils, water pump, etc right now, then will be moving on to doing the transmission 150K mile refresh. Will post back here once the video is up
Have you gotten the Vid done. Going to do the tranny fluid due to my new "noises" I'm hearing and trying to narrow down. Seems simple enough but would like a guide as well.
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      10-17-2019, 05:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrannieMoral2017 View Post
Have you gotten the Vid done. Going to do the tranny fluid due to my new "noises" I'm hearing and trying to narrow down. Seems simple enough but would like a guide as well.
Sorry no, I have to finish up the engine first. I was doing the valve stem seals & all the bits I mentioned before but decided to rip the heads off once I saw how carboned up the pistons and valves were (only way to clean the valves on the N63 is to drop the engine or pull the heads). Work has been a beast again so I am still at least another week away from doing it.

Really though if you want to take on the valve body or solenoids, all you need is the ATSG manual, it goes into detail on everything you need to know. You could actually rebuild the entire transmission if you wanted to with it. Amazon has 1 left:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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      10-22-2019, 08:28 AM   #16
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Thanks good luck with the cleaning. book ordered i just want to clean out the tranny thus far. i hear they benefit well from a good cleaning.
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      10-28-2019, 09:15 AM   #17
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I have done a few of the ZF 6HP 'boxes now.

A few things I have noticed.
The following is from a post regarding ZF 6HP, but will be similar.




Every single filter I have taken apart, even with 150k miles of original oil have been fine inside when you pull it apart, they are pretty amazing.

Changing filter and oil without getting it all out is not as good as just a flush and leaving old filter in there.

Do not reset the gearbox completely unless you change all the oil. 7 litres even with new filter can cause issues if you reset adaptations.

Resetting adaptations with a complete flush, even with old filter in place has always been fine and feels like a new gearbox.



I undo the oil cooler pipe, put a garden pump on the end and push the old oil out.
Undo pipe, pump in new oil and the other end pumps old oil out.
It normally takes around 12-14 litres before it starts to come out a nice clear yellow.
Just keep an eye on how much is coming out.
I have a 5 litre pump, so pump 5 litres out as I am pumping 5 litres in.
Keep going.
I buy the ATF AG55 for 70 for 20 litres.


Anyone can do this at home.
Might be worth doing first, for the sake of 50 worth of oil, you might not need to do anymore than that.

I did a Disco 3 with 172k miles on it, it was going into limp mode between 3-4th and some grumble from TC.
He bought all new solenoids.
I convinced him to simply do a flush first.
You have to lift engine on Disco to get sump off.
He did a full flush, we reset gearbox adaptations, it genuinely feels like new. Smooth as silk changes, no flaring and TC has no grumble.
He is now at 210k miles.



My F11 is now approaching 90k so will do this soon.
Need to look into the cooler on these as would like to get it all out and new stuff in.


Not saying don't change filter etc. But before doing solenoids and seals I would first do a full flush and reset adaptations on the gearbox. I have solenoids sat there in case I have even needed to replace them, but even after codes showing 3-4 change etc. that point to solenoids I have yet to need to swap any out.
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      10-28-2019, 04:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post

Do not reset the gearbox completely unless you change all the oil. 7 litres even with new filter can cause issues if you reset adaptations.

Resetting adaptations with a complete flush, even with old filter in place has always been fine and feels like a new gearbox.
An article on adaptations linked below. I'm not saying it hasn't worked well with you, but there's a possibility of ending up with a car that won't move if some values are reset on "well worn" transmissions.

Sadly they only posted posted it on facebook as an article.

https://www.facebook.com/xhpflashtoo...3761651273188/
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      10-28-2019, 05:24 PM   #19
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I understand what it does and why it does it.

All I am saying is, I have done a few now and so far everyone has been fine without changing solenoids etc.

The last one I did was recently, couple of months or so back.

I had the kit to replace everything and decided to see what would happen if I reset the adaptations before doing anything at all.
The unit was 6HP26, 153000 miles on original oil, it was a Discovery, which is pretty hard on the gearbox too.
The gearbox was clucking pretty hard on changes, 1st to 2nd was a jolt, I thought I needed to change the propshaft.

I reset all adaptations and immediately got the car throwing transmission faults and limp mode.
Codes showing shits from 3-4 were the main cause, but sometimes 1-2 and 2-3.
Half a mile was all you could get before limp mode kicked in.
I was all ready to do the solenoids and seals, but decided I would do a full flush first and see what happened.
I put 14 litres of ATF AG55 through before it came out clear, via cooler pipe.
Got the temp right, made sure levels correct and then took it for a drive.
It was like a new gearbox.
It has now done 3000 miles since then and is still perfect.
That is using original filter still, didn't take the sum off, just dropped oil out to start with.

I was ready to drop it all out and do the sump, filter, solenoids and seals, it was more of a test as I was interested.


I'm just saying, maybe buy the bits needed from amazon or someone who will take them back and try oil first, you might be surprised.

$100 of oil and and hour of time might be all it needs, a right bonus.
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      12-30-2019, 06:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasmanian View Post
Hi All

I forgot to add that there were 82,000 miles on the original fluid.

Shifting continues to be better than before the change.

Tasmanian.

DEC 30TH, 2019 UPDATE

We noticed that some minor lurching was starting to reappear on a sporatic basis.

With about 3,000 more miles since the original fluid change, we did a quick change just to continue to replace the unit with fresh fluid.

This time, we only used the pan drain plug and slightly less than 3 pints came out. It was not quite as dark as the original picture from my earlier posting...but still brown.

We pumped in a similar amount of new Liquid Moly from FCP. So far, it is shifting fine.

I still have some fluid left if we want to change it again in 10,000 miles.

Tasmanian
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      01-04-2020, 01:54 AM   #21
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Just my input, but I'm at 261,000 miles and have yet to have one issue with fluids. Just saying, but I'm sure my time is coming!!
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      01-04-2020, 04:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GottiLee View Post
Just my input, but I'm at 261,000 miles and have yet to have one issue with fluids. Just saying, but I'm sure my time is coming!!
Flat Lander. Have most of those miles been in Florida? Try doing that in the mountains. My bet is you would not have made it to 120K without some tranny issues.
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