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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes M5 front and 650 rear sway bars
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      03-04-2014, 05:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can just compress the suspension (springs) and it will fit on. It just means there is pre-tension when the suspension is left dangling, when it is under load it will be less.
It is the same with the original sways.
Cross-search the part# for the M5 endlinks and you might find it's the same part for all the f10 models.
The part numbers for the end links are different for F10 LCI 550ix and M5

F10 550ix -
06 Front swing support 2 31356777319 $39.17

M5
05 Front swing support 2 31357842579

----------

I will Just try the M5 end links, and see if it works....
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      03-04-2014, 08:03 PM   #24
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interested if anyone knows which sway bars front and rear fit the 2014 535i.
does the M5 front and 650i rear work for 2014 535i models?

Thanks,
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      03-05-2014, 10:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp411 View Post
interested if anyone knows which sway bars front and rear fit the 2014 535i.
does the M5 front and 650i rear work for 2014 535i models?

Thanks,
Look at post #17 and #19 in this thread, Alan installed the 650i rear sways on the LCI.
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      03-05-2014, 09:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiogolf View Post
The part numbers for the end links are different for F10 LCI 550ix and M5

F10 550ix -
06 Front swing support 2 31356777319 $39.17

M5
05 Front swing support 2 31357842579

----------

I will Just try the M5 end links, and see if it works....
Ok, but I wonder if you might encounter the same problem with the M5 links because when I changed my springs the links wouldn't bolt back on to the strut unless you jacked up one side of the car so that that it was leaning.
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      03-07-2015, 10:39 PM   #27
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Wished I had read this thread before ordering front M5 Sway bar for my 535i MSport .i planned to have it installed at my first service. Does anyone know if just changing the front would have enough noticeable improvement?
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      06-30-2015, 09:24 AM   #28
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so almost slightly over a year of the front and rear M5 anti sway bars lying in my garage after the first failed attempt, I got them in when my friend who is very hands on agreed to try and put them on. I also installed the M5 end links, which in fact are longer than the regular front end links on the 550. Thus the spring has to be really compressed to have the end links bolted to the end of sway bar. So did both the front and and the rear, what a difference!!

Car handling has changed by almost 5x now it feels it's on rails. Will be posting the vids and pics soon. Also have ordered the juicebox should be installing in a day or two.
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      07-02-2015, 10:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiogolf View Post
so almost slightly over a year of the front and rear M5 anti sway bars lying in my garage after the first failed attempt, I got them in when my friend who is very hands on agreed to try and put them on. I also installed the M5 end links, which in fact are longer than the regular front end links on the 550. Thus the spring has to be really compressed to have the end links bolted to the end of sway bar. So did both the front and and the rear, what a difference!!

Car handling has changed by almost 5x now it feels it's on rails. Will be posting the vids and pics soon. Also have ordered the juicebox should be installing in a day or two.
Hey audiogolf, thanks for looking to update us. I'm looking to do this upgrade too but on a 2012 535i xDrive. If you could keep us posted on your initial handling thoughts and also if you're seeing any degradation in ride comfort?

Right now I'm running the stock Goodyear LS2 RFT's and am hoping that the sway bar upgrade improves the body roll and handling (hopefully with not too much sacrifice in ride comfort, since these LS2s suck with hearing/feeling every bump in the road).
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      07-07-2015, 06:42 AM   #30
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I've just done this procedure tonight in my driveway using ramps. I used the ECS "kit" which has both bars, bushings, front brackets etc... Based on what I found on my 4/2011 production non-sport, non-DHP 535xi:

REAR:

- T30 and 16mm socket/wrench to work with the link ends.
- 16mm to work with the brackets
- break link ends with socket, switch to holding with wrench then drive the T30 opposite to unfasten
- IMO this would have been far easier with the suspension at least partially unloaded. The swing arms were simply in the way and I spent most of the whole job trying to get the old bar out and the new bar in. If the car were lifted halfway, it probably would have been a no brainer.


FRONT:
- 8mm nut driver/socket required for a zillion undertray bolts.
- be careful of the underbody members under the endlinks - they can be undone and carefully swung out of the way as long as the undertray plastic is still flexible (may not work in cold temps)
- T40 and 18mm required for end links
- E18 required for brackets
- Torques are quite high on the front, have sturdy tools.
- removal and reassembly are a no brainer on ramps with suspension in normal position
- the front bar is heavier, and more thought/caution should be taken with supporting the weight of the bar so it doesn't do collateral damage to yourself or to wiring, brake lines or plastic under the car. It's not heavy, but if you just whip out the bracket bolts and it shifts or falls you will damage something
- the bracket bolts are not the same length - PAY ATTENTION



DRIVING OBSERVATIONS SO FAR:
- corners flatter (but that was never my main F10 complaint in the first place)
- understeer feels more evident - either I'm revealing understeer already present by being more able/willing to push the limits of the tires in street driving (not something usually done in my F10, E39 and E90 all the time) or there is outright more understeer with this setup than with factory non-sport x-drive. I drove around the block with the rear upgrade only and the handling was more neutral but still so wallow-y I wouldn't want to not do the front. I think this would be better matched with a 17-18mm rear bar instead of the 16mm. I'd love to find one and try. (18mm was my first instinct)
- no change to steering feel, lack of "BMW-ness", feedback or communication
- it should have been more like this from the factory - I haven't noticed any downsides in comfort
- it does not make the car feel smaller, lighter etc... it just tracks a little flatter through the curves and feels less like it responds to steering input by leaning instead of turning. (when I upgraded the rear bar only on my 704-equipped I6 E39 the improvement was dramatic - the change in balance to being almost neutral made it feel like a much smaller, tossable car)

Yes, I'd recommend doing it, but it's not going to make it an E39, E46, E90 (or even an E60). There's still lots of BMW-ness missing, at least from my 2011 X-drive despite hydraulic steering. There are some in F10 forums saying that what's missing from the steering on the F10, and improved on the F10 LCI, is "tightness" and stiffness in the surrounding suspension, and that bars and springs will largely fix the issue. I disagreed when I first read it and still do now. I think that hydraulic assist owners may need changes to rack (faster ratio) and pump (less boost) and we all - maybe even more for X-drive - need changes to suspension geometry (castor and return-to-center force). Electric boost owners may see a lot of improvement from software alone, and perhaps BMW slipped the changes in to the LCI.

Now if I could only retrofit 704, or get some coilovers, and we could see where we get. Or, even better, if someone discovered a rack or PS pump retrofit to bring back the love.
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      07-07-2015, 10:26 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
I've just done this procedure tonight in my driveway using ramps. I used the ECS "kit" which has both bars, bushings, front brackets etc... Based on what I found on my 4/2011 production non-sport, non-DHP 535xi:

REAR:

- T30 and 16mm socket/wrench to work with the link ends.
- 16mm to work with the brackets
- break link ends with socket, switch to holding with wrench then drive the T30 opposite to unfasten
- IMO this would have been far easier with the suspension at least partially unloaded. The swing arms were simply in the way and I spent most of the whole job trying to get the old bar out and the new bar in. If the car were lifted halfway, it probably would have been a no brainer.


FRONT:
- 8mm nut driver/socket required for a zillion undertray bolts.
- be careful of the underbody members under the endlinks - they can be undone and carefully swung out of the way as long as the undertray plastic is still flexible (may not work in cold temps)
- T40 and 18mm required for end links
- E18 required for brackets
- Torques are quite high on the front, have sturdy tools.
- removal and reassembly are a no brainer on ramps with suspension in normal position
- the front bar is heavier, and more thought/caution should be taken with supporting the weight of the bar so it doesn't do collateral damage to yourself or to wiring, brake lines or plastic under the car. It's not heavy, but if you just whip out the bracket bolts and it shifts or falls you will damage something
- the bracket bolts are not the same length - PAY ATTENTION



DRIVING OBSERVATIONS SO FAR:
- corners flatter (but that was never my main F10 complaint in the first place)
- understeer feels more evident - either I'm revealing understeer already present by being more able/willing to push the limits of the tires in street driving (not something usually done in my F10, E39 and E90 all the time) or there is outright more understeer with this setup than with factory non-sport x-drive. I drove around the block with the rear upgrade only and the handling was more neutral but still so wallow-y I wouldn't want to not do the front. I think this would be better matched with a 17-18mm rear bar instead of the 16mm. I'd love to find one and try. (18mm was my first instinct)
- no change to steering feel, lack of "BMW-ness", feedback or communication
- it should have been more like this from the factory - I haven't noticed any downsides in comfort
- it does not make the car feel smaller, lighter etc... it just tracks a little flatter through the curves and feels less like it responds to steering input by leaning instead of turning. (when I upgraded the rear bar only on my 704-equipped I6 E39 the improvement was dramatic - the change in balance to being almost neutral made it feel like a much smaller, tossable car)

Yes, I'd recommend doing it, but it's not going to make it an E39, E46, E90 (or even an E60). There's still lots of BMW-ness missing, at least from my 2011 X-drive despite hydraulic steering. There are some in F10 forums saying that what's missing from the steering on the F10, and improved on the F10 LCI, is "tightness" and stiffness in the surrounding suspension, and that bars and springs will largely fix the issue. I disagreed when I first read it and still do now. I think that hydraulic assist owners may need changes to rack (faster ratio) and pump (less boost) and we all - maybe even more for X-drive - need changes to suspension geometry (castor and return-to-center force). Electric boost owners may see a lot of improvement from software alone, and perhaps BMW slipped the changes in to the LCI.

Now if I could only retrofit 704, or get some coilovers, and we could see where we get. Or, even better, if someone discovered a rack or PS pump retrofit to bring back the love.
Surly, great write up and probably the most recent I've seen on the M5/650 sway bar upgrade. I have a Sport 2012 535i xDrive so the results should be similar, although I'm not sure if the Sport package (non-M Sport) has any upgraded suspension components.

I see that you recommend the upgrade, but is it really worth it? I feel like others who've done it have had outstanding reviews but your feedback has me question whether the improvement would be less-dramatic, than I had thought previously.

BTW - What tires are you running? And if running stock, do you think they could be contributing to the F10's less than optimal steering/suspension feel. The stock Goodyear LS2 RFT's I have on right now, I plan on changing first to Michelin A/S 3's before the sway bar upgrade.
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      07-07-2015, 11:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
Now if I could only retrofit 704, or get some coilovers, and we could see where we get. Or, even better, if someone discovered a rack or PS pump retrofit to bring back the love.
I read a few days ago that KW now offers the KWv3 coilovers for xDrive.
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      07-07-2015, 12:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro.M3 View Post
Surly, great write up and probably the most recent I've seen on the M5/650 sway bar upgrade. I have a Sport 2012 535i xDrive so the results should be similar, although I'm not sure if the Sport package (non-M Sport) has any upgraded suspension components.

I see that you recommend the upgrade, but is it really worth it? I feel like others who've done it have had outstanding reviews but your feedback has me question whether the improvement would be less-dramatic, than I had thought previously.

BTW - What tires are you running? And if running stock, do you think they could be contributing to the F10's less than optimal steering/suspension feel. The stock Goodyear LS2 RFT's I have on right now, I plan on changing first to Michelin A/S 3's before the sway bar upgrade.
I'm used to knowing what I'm talking about when it comes to options and what components that represents, but the dramatic expansion of BMW's line up, variables like X-Drive, and lack of solid information out there leaves me often confused by the F10. I believe that for years pre-LCI, if you got X-Drive then "sport" had no suspension differences. IN later years and LCI it seems that there *might* be a ride height different. Then there's the DHP variable - are the bars different on a DHP, non-ARS, pre-LCI X-Drive? Don't know. Might need to run through part numbers based on your VIN or go out and measure.

As for whether it's worth it --- For the Americans out there who can get full parts kits for <$500 with no tax and no shipping, that's a completely different story than other countries like mine (Canada) with poor exchange, taxes on import and high shipping costs. I was able to get a break so I went for it.

It is no doubt an improvement. It is probably the way the platform should have come, but it's not eye popping. The impressions of the reviewer may really depend on what they've had before. If the F10 is their first BMW - maybe it's a big change. If they came from a 226/704-equipped E90 or an M car, it's not quite there.

I'll continue to observe the changes as I go about my normal routine. I'm eager to figure out if I've actually picked up more understeer. When I was first looking at the package I figured that might happen since, if memory serves correct, when viewed as a PERCENTAGE instead of mm, the front bar is increasing in diameter more percentage points than the rear, which is going to increase understeer. I'll try to find the full list of figures again. I may look into obtaining an aftermarket rear bar in 17 or 18mm too and put my 16mm up for sale.

I'm running LS2s on 19" 351M square setup in the summer. I'm going to wear them out before looking at anything else I think. The summer packages on my past/other bimmers has been PS2 or PSS. Right now, it doesn't feel "worth it" to put PSSs on the F10, as much as I love them.

Last edited by Surly73; 07-07-2015 at 12:36 PM..
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      07-07-2015, 12:27 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by remmib View Post
I read a few days ago that KW now offers the KWv3 coilovers for xDrive.
I think I saw that too, but none of the KW sites list them.

If memory serves, the price tag was also over US$2800. For me that would end up being over $4k in parts alone. And the road feel might still suck. Yikes.
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      07-07-2015, 04:22 PM   #35
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Good information here guys! Wouldn't it be easier to just upgrade to specific H&R swaybars posted on Turner Motorsports?
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      07-08-2015, 03:08 AM   #36
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Great info here FOR SURE. I got the same ECS kit and only installed the rear and already the car is flatter in turns and has mildly calmed the "floatiness". Installing the front soon too. If the understeer is too much I'll follow you on the rear and get the H&R for the back.

Or maybe the trick is only get the 650i rear, Koni FSD's and a set of springs for non DHP cars.
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      07-08-2015, 05:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
Good information here guys! Wouldn't it be easier to just upgrade to specific H&R swaybars posted on Turner Motorsports?
So I know there was another forum member who installed the H&R's are on their xDrive F10, but after checking H&R's site - the vehicle compatibility calculator says its not compatible with AWD. Also, the H&R bars are a purple color which I worry may have an issue with those who have warranties.

On the flipside, those sways are much thicker and I would love to hear of any feedback from someone who's had them installed and had some miles to try them out.
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      07-08-2015, 05:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
Great info here FOR SURE. I got the same ECS kit and only installed the rear and already the car is flatter in turns and has mildly calmed the "floatiness". Installing the front soon too. If the understeer is too much I'll follow you on the rear and get the H&R for the back.

Or maybe the trick is only get the 650i rear, Koni FSD's and a set of springs for non DHP cars.
Thats great to hear - do you have xDrive? I have xDrive and wanted to see the results for someone with AWD, since our cars tend to be heavier.
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      07-13-2015, 04:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro.M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
Great info here FOR SURE. I got the same ECS kit and only installed the rear and already the car is flatter in turns and has mildly calmed the "floatiness". Installing the front soon too. If the understeer is too much I'll follow you on the rear and get the H&R for the back.

Or maybe the trick is only get the 650i rear, Koni FSD's and a set of springs for non DHP cars.
Thats great to hear - do you have xDrive? I have xDrive and wanted to see the results for someone with AWD, since our cars tend to be heavier.
Nope just standard rear wheel.
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      05-22-2017, 06:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
I've just done this procedure tonight in my driveway using ramps. I used the ECS "kit" which has both bars, bushings, front brackets etc... Based on what I found on my 4/2011 production non-sport, non-DHP 535xi:

REAR:

- T30 and 16mm socket/wrench to work with the link ends.
- 16mm to work with the brackets
- break link ends with socket, switch to holding with wrench then drive the T30 opposite to unfasten
- IMO this would have been far easier with the suspension at least partially unloaded. The swing arms were simply in the way and I spent most of the whole job trying to get the old bar out and the new bar in. If the car were lifted halfway, it probably would have been a no brainer.


FRONT:
- 8mm nut driver/socket required for a zillion undertray bolts.
- be careful of the underbody members under the endlinks - they can be undone and carefully swung out of the way as long as the undertray plastic is still flexible (may not work in cold temps)
- T40 and 18mm required for end links
- E18 required for brackets
- Torques are quite high on the front, have sturdy tools.
- removal and reassembly are a no brainer on ramps with suspension in normal position
- the front bar is heavier, and more thought/caution should be taken with supporting the weight of the bar so it doesn't do collateral damage to yourself or to wiring, brake lines or plastic under the car. It's not heavy, but if you just whip out the bracket bolts and it shifts or falls you will damage something
- the bracket bolts are not the same length - PAY ATTENTION
Just did sway bar work again. My hunch that unloading the rear suspension would help was correct. I used ramps for the work, and put my trolley jack under as well and lifted a couple of inches. The rear bar easily moves in and out of position with the suspension partially unloaded. It's a real 3D puzzle otherwise.
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      07-16-2017, 07:51 AM   #41
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To not open a new topic, what exactly should I order to put 650i sway bar?
Is just sway bar (33556791932) or something else?
My car is LCI,has DDC.
Is rear sway bar enough to make difference??
I have 13mm now beacuse i havent sport suspension which have 14mm.
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      07-16-2017, 11:42 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno112 View Post
To not open a new topic, what exactly should I order to put 650i sway bar?
Is just sway bar (33556791932) or something else?
My car is LCI,has DDC.
Is rear sway bar enough to make difference??
I have 13mm now beacuse i havent sport suspension which have 14mm.
The rear is the most notable difference. Just gonna throw this in here because I've have plenty of seat time now with my rear and front. The 650 rear is totally worth it. The M5 front is not noticeable. If you want to feel a change up from the get the M5 front that's in that competition package.
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      07-16-2017, 02:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
The rear is the most notable difference. Just gonna throw this in here because I've have plenty of seat time now with my rear and front. The 650 rear is totally worth it. The M5 front is not noticeable. If you want to feel a change up from the get the M5 front that's in that competition package.
Thats great but what I have to order from the picture,is just sway bar or more stuff,sorry for bad english.
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      07-17-2017, 08:26 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
The rear is the most notable difference. Just gonna throw this in here because I've have plenty of seat time now with my rear and front. The 650 rear is totally worth it. The M5 front is not noticeable. If you want to feel a change up from the get the M5 front that's in that competition package.
What I found is that the front bar takes out most of the ridiculous amount of lean present in a non ARS, base suspension F10. From the factory I felt like my steering wheel was connected to hydraulics that made the car lean before it turned.

But, the larger rear is required to balance out the handling of the car or it will understeer. Really - you should do both - front to reduce the dramatic amounts of roll and the rear to restore balance.

Obviously the rear takes lean out too, but the driver feels the front leaning most. If you did rear only, you may have a very responsive car (perhaps even oversteering) but the front end extreme lean will remain.

It's possible that option 704 cars may have larger bars from the start and less of an issue than base, passive suspension pre-LCI cars. YMMV.
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