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      06-01-2020, 09:58 AM   #1
M5theonlyone
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Greedy Wolff going against reverse grids

Only Merc is opposing the reverse grid system on the double headers that were planned. Christian Horner has asked Wolff to re consider as for instance at Austria
Max in the RB has won the last two races there so it wouldn't be a great disaster for Merc with the huge advantage they have demonstrated for many years.
All the other teams have voted for it and it further shows that Wolff is becoming a control freak too much with the success of Merc going to his head and I use those words with aplomb.
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      06-01-2020, 10:11 AM   #2
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Wouldn’t it be cool to see if the same team wins twice on the same track? You can put the first weekend’s data to real use. That’s what I want to see.
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      06-01-2020, 12:17 PM   #3
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if season can start at A1, after first race standings ll be sooo different..
and for the reverse grid, i dont think its a good thing as well.. like an amateur karting tournament system.. and if top teams get wasted on the back at the start it wont be fair.. and there is too much money going on in F1 for it.. sounds fair to me..
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      06-01-2020, 12:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
if season can start at A1, after first race standings ll be sooo different..
and for the reverse grid, i dont think its a good thing as well.. like an amateur karting tournament system.. and if top teams get wasted on the back at the start it wont be fair.. and there is too much money going on in F1 for it.. sounds fair to me..
If the front runners are so good then why not have them trying to get through the pack from the back. After all we have seen a few times how drivers like Lewis and other front runners use their skills to cut through and regain positions near the front so there is no excuse not to have it and it will end the boredom except for Wolff of course who hasn't a viable reason.
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      06-01-2020, 11:51 PM   #5
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I think it would be fun, at least for this f'd up season. Some people are just boring af and don't want to see interesting and wild things in F1... They should probably watch golf or curling.
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      06-02-2020, 02:57 AM   #6
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Firstly Horner wants whats best for Red Bull no other motive whatsoever.
Same goes for Mercedes...so no surprises in their positions.
I'm a bit unsure about messing around with grid positions...British Touring cars do it all the time but it seems a bit contrived.
Its not at all in the tradition of F1...and with dicks like Verstappen swerving all over the track to stop people passing and passing overly aggressively it could be a recipe for mayhem.
Or it could be fun...who knows.
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      06-02-2020, 09:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
I think it would be fun, at least for this f'd up season. Some people are just boring af and don't want to see interesting and wild things in F1... They should probably watch golf or curling.
It's on all the m/s news,Christian Horner is saying that Wolff is against the F1's reverse grid plan to maintain LH's championship advantage. Can't really see any other reason for Merc manager doing so.
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      06-02-2020, 09:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Firstly Horner wants whats best for Red Bull no other motive whatsoever.
Same goes for Mercedes...so no surprises in their positions.
I'm a bit unsure about messing around with grid positions...British Touring cars do it all the time but it seems a bit contrived.
Its not at all in the tradition of F1...and with dicks like Verstappen swerving all over the track to stop people passing and passing overly aggressively it could be a recipe for mayhem.
Or it could be fun...who knows.
Mate . What are you smoking ?
Your d@ck won on the Red Bull Ring in 2018 and 2019 !

He did it by swerving all over the track....
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      06-02-2020, 10:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
It's on all the m/s news,Christian Horner is saying that Wolff is against the F1's reverse grid plan to maintain LH's championship advantage. Can't really see any other reason for Merc manager doing so.
Yea for sure. I'm just passive aggressively taking a shot at other non-affiliated people who shoot down everything that isn't Lewis Hamilton...
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      06-02-2020, 10:34 AM   #10
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I have to say I'm firmly in the camp of not doing reverse grid races to determine starting positions. It just feels too much of a gimmick and an artificial of way of trying to make the racing more interesting. It seems like a bandaid fix instead of addressing the underlying issue.

That being said, we are in a very unique situation this year. I wouldnt be opposed to them trying it this year and evaluating its effects. But only if they had no plans of introducing such changes for future seasons until we've had at least a year of the new regulations. If the new regulations work and the racing is better, then there will be no need for gimmicks like this. If they fail, then we'll have these two races to reflect upon with some data.

Remember the last time F1 tried to spice up the show with "knock out" style qualifying and how bad the result was? And lets not forget, we had plenty good races last year that worked perfectly fine with the current format.
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      06-02-2020, 10:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
It's on all the m/s news,Christian Horner is saying that Wolff is against the F1's reverse grid plan to maintain LH's championship advantage. Can't really see any other reason for Merc manager doing so.
I read that as well. He may be right, but we have no way of knowing for sure. I'm certain Toto hasn't come out and said that explicitly. Until he does, its speculation.

Keep in mind, F1 is very political. Teams will support whatever changes they think will benefit them.
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      06-02-2020, 01:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I have to say I'm firmly in the camp of not doing reverse grid races to determine starting positions. It just feels too much of a gimmick and an artificial of way of trying to make the racing more interesting. It seems like a bandaid fix instead of addressing the underlying issue.
Agreed! I think any "success ballast" whether in the form of actual weights, reverse grid, or any penalties for good results is meant to create a spectacle. Did you guys remember in the mid-2000s when they were going to use sprinklers to create artificial wet races? :

The goal of F1 has always been "May the best package win." This gimmick is definitely not representative of the soul of the sport. I don't disagree with Toto... Mercedes has done a good job investing in their performance, penalizing their success doesn't provide an incentive. It might be fun for fans but it would be terrible for the organizations and their sponsors.

For example, let's say Renault comes to grid with an amazing car. But they start in the back because they were on the podium in the previous race? Well, that's BS. Teams should be rewarded with the hard work they put in. That's how you get success stories (Brawn GP, Bennetton, etc).

On that note, if F1 wants to turn into an exhibition and not have this 2020 season count in the championship history, I'm fine with success ballasts and making the races artificially fun.
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      06-02-2020, 07:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterspeak View Post
On that note, if F1 wants to turn into an exhibition and not have this 2020 season count in the championship history, I'm fine with success ballasts and making the races artificially fun.
I completely agree with this idea. Personally, I feel like reverse grid races and similar ideas would devalue the championship, especially if they are implemented at only a couple of venues.
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      06-03-2020, 11:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
If the front runners are so good then why not have them trying to get through the pack from the back.
Because they qualified up front.

This sounds like a form of participation trophy mentality.

Last edited by DieGrüneHölle; 06-03-2020 at 11:58 AM..
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      06-03-2020, 11:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I completely agree with this idea. Personally, I feel like reverse grid races and similar ideas would devalue the championship, especially if they are implemented at only a couple of venues.
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      06-03-2020, 12:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I completely agree with this idea. Personally, I feel like reverse grid races and similar ideas would devalue the championship, especially if they are implemented at only a couple of venues.
I don't know if it happens in DTM but certainly in the BTCC which I am a great fan of. F1 like other series isn't too 'posh' to adapt to this refreshing reverse grid idea and it would be a bonus to have more double race weekends with it implemented.
I would think more viewers would then watch F1 and I disagree that it would devalue the sport in...what way?
Time to move on and have new ideas instead of the same boring routine.
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      06-03-2020, 12:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mate . What are you smoking ?
Your d@ck won on the Red Bull Ring in 2018 and 2019 !

He did it by swerving all over the track....
Heh heh Leclerc always straightening that cap
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      06-03-2020, 01:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I read that as well. He may be right, but we have no way of knowing for sure. I'm certain Toto hasn't come out and said that explicitly. Until he does, its speculation.

Keep in mind, F1 is very political. Teams will support whatever changes they think will benefit them.
I'll go further to say that the system of voting something in like the reverse grid system with teams should be on a straight 'whoever has more votes wins' rather than this erroneous way they do it at the moment. Everyone voted for it and just one exception should not change what the majority wants.
Sort it Todt.
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      06-03-2020, 01:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
I don't know if it happens in DTM but certainly in the BTCC which I am a great fan of. F1 like other series isn't too 'posh' to adapt to this refreshing reverse grid idea and it would be a bonus to have more double race weekends with it implemented.
I would think more viewers would then watch F1 and I disagree that it would devalue the sport in...what way?
Time to move on and have new ideas instead of the same boring routine.
I see your point, but I'd like to counter with an argument. I get that Liberty is a media company and they need more viewers to make more money. But if they keep on trying to introduce new things for the sake of getting more people interested, then we slowly start moving away from F1's traditional values.

If these types of ideas are meant to introduce new fans to the sport, then I would argue that these people aren't watching F1 for the sport that it really is and more so for the gimmicks that make it more "exciting". I think that most of us here can appreciate the sport for what it is despite some of the boring races. If we attract new fans through the use of gimmicks, then we arent attracting them for the right reason and they will stop watching once they get bored of what brought them in. NASCAR has found itself in this exact situation. They implemented a convoluted playoff scoring system to spice up the show towards the end of the year. It helped initially, but they have been losing viewership ever since.

Edit: Just to clarify, I think the reverse grid races would devalue this years championship and not necessarily the sport as a whole. I think the record books would forever have an asterisk next to this years champions, just as they do with the year double points were awarded at the season finale.

Last edited by apexit4; 06-03-2020 at 02:04 PM..
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      06-03-2020, 02:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
I'll go further to say that the system of voting something in like the reverse grid system with teams should be on a straight 'whoever has more votes wins' rather than this erroneous way they do it at the moment. Everyone voted for it and just one exception should not change what the majority wants.
Sort it Todt.
I do agree with this point. I dont think there is another sport out there where the participating teams have so much to say over what the rules and regulations are.

That being said, I dont think Liberty quite understands what F1 truly is and if they were to be given full control over the sport, they'd make changes that are against what F1 really is.
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      06-03-2020, 02:15 PM   #21
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Heh heh Leclerc always straightening that cap
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      06-03-2020, 02:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I see your point, but I'd like to counter with an argument. I get that Liberty is a media company and they need more viewers to make more money. But if they keep on trying to introduce new things for the sake of getting more people interested, then we slowly start moving away from F1's traditional values.

If these types of ideas are meant to introduce new fans to the sport, then I would argue that these people aren't watching F1 for the sport that it really is and more so for the gimmicks that make it more "exciting". I think that most of us here can appreciate the sport for what it is despite some of the boring races. If we attract new fans through the use of gimmicks, then we arent attracting them for the right reason and they will stop watching once they get bored of what brought them in. NASCAR has found itself in this exact situation. They implemented a convoluted playoff scoring system to spice up the show towards the end of the year. It helped initially, but they have been losing viewership ever since.
dit: Just to clarify, I think the reverse grid races would devalue this years championship and not necessarily the sport as a whole. I think the record books would forever have an asterisk next to this years champions, just as they do with the year double points were awarded at the season finale.
''they have been losing viewership ever since''. True with fans leaving Sky F1 subscription and others as it is expensive and it may be because that there is nothing new coming out and F1 fans need some inspiration. I keep going back to Alonso's comment of it being boring.
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