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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Feedback from monoball thrust bushing upgrade sought
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      12-02-2023, 03:29 PM   #1
Surly73
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Feedback from monoball thrust bushing upgrade sought

Who has done a monoball upgrade of the thrust bushing (like the Turner Motorsport kit)?

I'm 75% I've just condemned my thrust bushings on my daily driver and I'd like to make an informed choice about my options (OE, poly and monoball). This is a daily driver in the Great Lakes area - road salt etc...

Noise? Vibration? Road imperfections too impactful? Or two thumbs up, never looking back?

Thanks
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      12-02-2023, 05:23 PM   #2
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I have. It's definitely a little bit more harsh, but noise and vibration seem unchanged. I find the harshness after all the suspension mods, even after the monoball, on my car fine, so take that for what you will.

I really enjoy the immediacy you feel when stepping on the brakes.
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      12-04-2023, 07:30 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unspec View Post
I have. It's definitely a little bit more harsh, but noise and vibration seem unchanged. I find the harshness after all the suspension mods, even after the monoball, on my car fine, so take that for what you will.

I really enjoy the immediacy you feel when stepping on the brakes.
Thanks for the perspectives. I should point out that this daily driver has KWv3's and bars, so it's already not a marshmallow. I am exploring any longer term observations or reasons not to do this. I am a little concerned by the apparent ability to rotate the arm in place at the bearing end compared to the fixed position with OE or poly bushings - I'm surprised that doesn't cause some kind of problem, especially on an X-Drive with all the stuff up front.

Last edited by Surly73; 12-04-2023 at 08:57 PM..
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      12-04-2023, 12:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unspec View Post
I really enjoy the immediacy you feel when stepping on the brakes.
Immediacy for brakes? not for steering?
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      12-04-2023, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3985 View Post
Immediacy for brakes? not for steering?
IMO it hasn't affected steering all that much, but that was likely because my bushings were still in good shape. When braking, a ton of force goes into the thrust arm bushings.
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      12-07-2023, 09:44 AM   #6
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Unspec Have you noticed any issues with the rotation of the thrust arm, as depicted around 6m20s in this video?

https://youtu.be/U2IYy1Yhklo?feature=shared&t=380

Last edited by Surly73; 12-07-2023 at 01:27 PM..
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      12-07-2023, 01:55 PM   #7
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I have noticed it, but I haven't noticed an issue with it.

If the side to side movement bothers you, you could just jerry rig some zip ties or baling while to either side to constrict its side to side movement. There's plenty of anchor points down there.

I might try that. Will let you know how that goes once finals end.
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      12-07-2023, 04:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unspec View Post
I have noticed it, but I haven't noticed an issue with it.

If the side to side movement bothers you, you could just jerry rig some zip ties or baling while to either side to constrict its side to side movement. There's plenty of anchor points down there.

I might try that. Will let you know how that goes once finals end.
Still good feedback to know that it has not presented any kind of issue with operation of the car and suspension. It seems like it's a lot of movement and would be a bad thing. I would be interested to see some of that GoPro footage from the wheel well of an F10 with those installed and see that the arm is not twisting in normal use.

I'm leaning towards using the monoballs - just second-guessing myself and double checking everything.
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      12-07-2023, 11:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
Still good feedback to know that it has not presented any kind of issue with operation of the car and suspension. It seems like it's a lot of movement and would be a bad thing. I would be interested to see some of that GoPro footage from the wheel well of an F10 with those installed and see that the arm is not twisting in normal use.

I'm leaning towards using the monoballs - just second-guessing myself and double checking everything.
It doesn't really matter if it twists. It's twisting perpendicular to the force being applied, so the actual force transfer never changes.
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      12-08-2023, 08:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unspec View Post
It doesn't really matter if it twists. It's twisting perpendicular to the force being applied, so the actual force transfer never changes.
Agreed - in the direction of the primary forces it is rigid. My thinking is that there's a lot of stuff down there (wishbones, drive shafts, steering links) which are thrown in many orientations (compression, rebound, steering angles) and not a lot of empty space. I'm slightly surprised that nothing makes contact when so much rotation is possible.

The other thing that's still rolling around in my head - could I end up with subframe damage because there is no give of any kind (not even a poly bushing)? I dodge most road imperfections I can see but have hit some at highway speeds at night hiding in puddles. In all my years of driving I've been blessed to never incur any "pothole" damage like you see some folks showing online, never even a flat. But with no give from the bushing, is something else which is designed to be unyielding going to give instead?

In reading monoball feedback that isn't F10 specific, I believe I've concluded that I would like the driving experience. Forum posters seem to have trouble describing whether they're encountering lots of NVH and chassis "bang" every time you hit a sharp edged bump or whether they're merely gaining road feedback they've never felt before. Do PASSENGERS notice the difference, or just the person hanging on to the steering wheel?

I'd love to have my old E-series road feel back in my F-series. If the "harshness" described by some is simply feeling the road in the steering, that's great. If the whole chassis crunches and bangs, and a pothole will bend or crack my subframe - not so much.
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      02-03-2024, 03:49 PM   #11
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is the majority in for this being an all positive mod with the current F10 owners with monoballs? Might upgrade to monoball aswell when i swap my suspension.
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      02-04-2024, 06:22 AM   #12
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I thought I had posted my impressions after doing the work to every place where I had asked for input. I guess not.

It's winter so: 1/ I have winter tires on (and this is my first winter with these new winter tires so they're not well known to me 2/ every creak and crunch in the interior is magnified in cold weather.

I'm reserving judgement on "all positive" so far. I do NOT feel a return to my E39 and E90 steering - so the Internet has that wrong. It's improved, yes, but I feel more amplification of the hard edges of bridge expansion joints and broken pavement more than I feel the "good news" of real steering. Now, keep in mind I don't have my summer tires on yet. I could get improved feel with that, or even worse bumps and crashing.

Aside from feel, I have noticed much better manners from the car. And I don't mean superior only to immediately before the change while driving with the blown bushings. It tracks through harder turns better, I think when corner speeds got higher even a good condition stock bushing deflects and starts to let the outer wheel toe out, which increases the turn radius, then you need to add more steering input, then it scrubs and toes out more etc...

The first thing I noticed on pretty much my first drive - there's a sweeping left that I've been driving on to a certain area of town for errands for 20 years. When in the left lane there is a manhole cover which the left wheels go through. It's reasonably level with the road surface so it's not a pothole but it unsettles the chassis. I usually need some kind of steering correction, or the car tracks slightly to the outside when going through it, and the steering wheel pulls a little. My observations are top tier summer rubber on my E39, E90 and my F10 for the last 10 years. I was coming home from this errand the day after installing the monoball thrust arms, driving a little sporty (on winter tires) and I just went right through this thing - no step sideways, no steering correction, no movement in the steering wheel, tracked perfectly.

I did not expect this kind of change from thrust arm improvements. The forces don't seem in the right direction, but I noticed immediately. My E39 had poly bushings too, and yet I was accustomed to this bobble in handling.

At any rate - I haven't been tempted to get the monoballs off the car, but in the back of my mind I'm wondering if poly wouldn't be better. I am concerned about replacing something with a lot of give with something that has no give at all. Is my subframe going to get bent if I hit something really large? Poly would at least still have some give in it.

We'll see what the summer brings. My bushings were SHOT and needed replacing immediately so didn't have the luxury of time to think too long about it, nor wait until summer to do the evaluation. I plan to press the original bushings out of the original arms and hag on to them in case I want to switch to poly. The ball joints still seem good on them.
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      02-06-2024, 11:31 AM   #13
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I have the street powerflex thrust arm bushings on my car and I can say I didn't notice much of a difference over OEM in terms of NVH. Main thing I noticed was that braking "felt" a lot more solid. I'm not sure if that actually translated into a real increase in braking performance or just the perception of it? I installed them at the same time as my coilovers so I couldn't provide solid feedback on how much of a difference they made on their own vs. OEM.

I've had them installed for at least 70k km and the last time I inspected them they were still in good shape. No issues with them so far.

I doubt you'd have issues with the subframe, it's pretty robust from my experience lol. I had a short stint with air suspension on my car and I had an air line fail at the same time as I went over a massive pot hole. Car came crashing down so hard over the pot hole it sounded like the upper control arm was going to come right through the shock tower. Everything was fine and I've had the car aligned multiple times since with no issues.

For what's it worth you're welcome to see what they're like in my car since you're local? I don't know if it will be the best apple to apples comparison since your set up is different than mine but it may give you an idea of what to expect?
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