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      01-30-2024, 03:26 PM   #23
Alfisti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the hammer View Post
Those 997ís look great. That black one is wonderful!
Just make sure you read up on .1 vs .2, not the regular 997's, the GT3. The .1 got I think the last of the Megzer engines but the .2 gets a far nicer centre console and more power etc.
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      01-30-2024, 08:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
A FBO M2 is hard to beat for fun, reliability, sound, power, DIY, parts prices, and overall cost, which is why I still have mine 5 years on. There are some decent prospects at $150K; R8, 911, NSX, but for me it'd take $200K to make the change (Ferrari 458 in a decent spec with decent miles). Good luck with your search, it's a fun time, but it's going to take a lot of searching to find something really worth the difference in price, and even then you'll be hard pressed to find something as fun (that you're not so worried about hurting).

And to everyone that suggested a Viper, good lord, why are you even here? lol

I'd walk first.

Sounds like you've never driven a Gen IV Viper in any trim. It's like a big angry S2000 with a slow torquey engine instead of a screamer.


To Drop the hammer why on EARTH would you not take the mclaren to the track! It is the closest thing to a race car you can buy. What an experience. You can't even comprehend the grip or how it turns.
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      01-30-2024, 10:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Drop the hammer View Post
So I am a happy M2 owner. Really like the car (my second m2 after an m3). Anyways Iím getting bored (Iím tuned and full bolt onís, but wanting a bit more) was thinking of getting a replacement car. I have garage space for it full time, just putting into context. I do all my own work on the cars. Kind of a hobbiest. Was thinking McLaren 650s (since it would be a lot of issues to constantly work on). Or late teens 2018íish 911 Turbo S coupe or maybe a gt3 if I can find one in that price range. It would only be a Sunday driver and low miles annually. Budget is 200kíish Canadian, so around 150k US. Iím not sure what I should get. Go with the reliable turbo S or go with the full time hobby 650s. I do like wrenching and such. 2 very different cars. Also would consider other cars.
Car use would be spirited canyon drives with buddies, wash and wax on Sundays, and really just oogling it daily in the garage, thatís about it. Maybe occasional date night w dear wife.
I would go with a GT3. Not that the Turbo/S is "boring", but if this is strictly a weekend car then you need something more exciting. Especially if a highly modified M2 is already starting to bore you.

997.2 GT3 is the one to get. It's not going to be completely obscenely fast in a straight line, but will make up for it in all the other areas (especially sound). Plus it somewhat flies under the radar compared to a McLaren or something similarly exotic.

Dark horse suggestions would be a final gen Viper or Evora GT.
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      01-31-2024, 02:58 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
And to everyone that suggested a Viper, good lord, why are you even here? lol

I'd walk first.
You have been taking your ///Mean pills again. I donít know whether I would own one but I do appreciate them and can understand the appeal to lots of folk. Infinitely more interesting than anything new anyway.

Iíd kind of like to have a beer or 3 with all the owners in this video. Great passion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcJwN93Kvu0
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      01-31-2024, 03:43 AM   #27
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Have you considered the m5 cs? Or the m2 cs?
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      01-31-2024, 08:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by x622 View Post
Sounds like you've never driven a Gen IV Viper in any trim. It's like a big angry S2000 with a slow torquey engine instead of a screamer.
I've driven ever Viper you can name, though not to their limits for sure. They don't even sit well (unless you're an ape), let alone inspire any sort of driving confidence, and are the polar opposite of the scalpel S2000. I'm actually vaguely offended you made the comparison. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
I donít know whether I would own one but I do appreciate them and can understand the appeal to lots of folk. Infinitely more interesting than anything new anyway.
[To me] they are terrible to drive, and terribly engineered. They're a throwback car that can only be appreciated by people who are either never going to test their limits, or live on the limit. I'm just neither. I would seriously have a Civic first, and I'm not a Civic guy.
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      01-31-2024, 09:29 AM   #29
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Iíll start reading up on 997.1 vs .2 gt3ís. I do have a soft spot for P-cars and they have good sporty dimensions and do sound really good.
I have considered the new M2 and doing a piggy back tune, and in a stick. But I havenít warmed up to the looks of it, and wanted something a bit more rare and unique. I wouldnít want to have the track wear on a McLaren (or any exotic). I am very far from a dealer, but Iíd probably also buy a proper scantool for it, I have no problem pulling an engine or trans for service/rebuilding.
2016 gt3rs is also looking tempting but would stretch my wifeís approved budget, maybe a 997 gt3 will scratch the itch.
At least on a gt3 I would be able to move it easy enough in 5-10 yrs vs McLaren which is a tough sell at any price.
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      01-31-2024, 09:32 AM   #30
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Iíve been in a few vipers at autocross and track and they are not my thing. An experience though.
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      01-31-2024, 09:58 AM   #31
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I'd take a 997 GT3 over a 991 all day, every day. Far more rare. Also remember the 991.1 GT3 engine likes to eat itself so make sure it has been replaced if you go that route.

Wrenching a McLaren is a world of hurt, like proper hurt, the issue with them are not mechanical, there's a litany of shit that needs specialist attention. But if you can swing a 650S... hard to say no.

Last edited by Alfisti; 01-31-2024 at 11:05 AM..
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      01-31-2024, 01:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
I've driven ever Viper you can name, though not to their limits for sure. They don't even sit well (unless you're an ape), let alone inspire any sort of driving confidence, and are the polar opposite of the scalpel S2000. I'm actually vaguely offended you made the comparison. lol



[To me] they are terrible to drive, and terribly engineered. They're a throwback car that can only be appreciated by people who are either never going to test their limits, or live on the limit. I'm just neither. I would seriously have a Civic first, and I'm not a Civic guy.


I completely disagree, and that's after owning many a s2000. The s2000 is anything but composed any time you have any sort of compressive event that affects the rear. The bump-steer you have in the back due to the factory toe arm geometry is precisely why the S2000s get wrecked all the time by kids. If you aren't ready to catch that ass, it'll bite you.


Drop the hammer Take a look on the porsche forums and look at the rebuild intervals on the GT3RS's. They're not without their issues as well, and anything porsche is typically expensive if you're racing it or putting it under heavy usage.
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      01-31-2024, 02:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the hammer View Post
Iíve been in a few vipers at autocross and track and they are not my thing. An experience though.
Have you considered the m5 cs? Or the m2 cs?
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      01-31-2024, 02:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
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anything porsche is typically expensive if you're racing it or putting it under heavy usage.
Gee, not much with proper horsepower pounds around all days from the factory like a Porsche. Yeah you can load up a Camaro or Mustang but big dollars, a base 911 or Caymen is ready to do basic track work.

There was a youtuber with this absolutely INSANE collection, like 100 cars deep, all exotics and high end sports cars, he made it clear the GT3 was by far the most reliable thing there for just pounding around tracks all day.

If you want bargain racing it's Miata time.
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      01-31-2024, 03:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x622 View Post
The s2000 is anything but composed any time you have any sort of compressive event that affects the rear. The bump-steer you have in the back due to the factory toe arm geometry is precisely why the S2000s get wrecked all the time by kids. If you aren't ready to catch that ass, it'll bite you.
Now this part I'll agree with, but to that I'd say you can mitigate its tendency to oversteer with suspension and tire choice. Even so, to really extract the most out of an S2000 you're going to need to have a high level of skill because, like the Lotus, it's a "carry-speed" type of car, not a "torque will save me" type of car.

My comments were more about how everything falls perfectly into hand, and the shifter is world-class. Put another way, I'd rather drive an S2000 slow than a Viper fast.
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      01-31-2024, 03:08 PM   #36
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I never understood the Viper other than the ACR as a track weapon. For all it's manliness it sounds like arse, too much bottom end.
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      01-31-2024, 08:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Gee, not much with proper horsepower pounds around all days from the factory like a Porsche. Yeah you can load up a Camaro or Mustang but big dollars, a base 911 or Caymen is ready to do basic track work.

There was a youtuber with this absolutely INSANE collection, like 100 cars deep, all exotics and high end sports cars, he made it clear the GT3 was by far the most reliable thing there for just pounding around tracks all day.

If you want bargain racing it's Miata time.
I deal with porsche cup cars and clubsport edition cars at my shop. You should see the service bills. Keeping them running is still $$$.


I'd agree with you there ///MPhatic, the s2000 certainly feels better. As for suspension, no it's really just the rear toe arms. As the suspension compresses you see large changes in effective toe. As it sweeps between positive to negative toe, it steps out. Buying adjustable arms and adjusting your dynamic toe is the only real way to get it out. The really fast cars don't even run rear sways typically (mine doesn't)
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      01-31-2024, 09:42 PM   #38
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I ran into an NYC hedge fund manager at a BMW track event a few years ago. He had a GT3RS that he tracked and said he spent $1500+ every track weekend on tires. He could afford the car, maintenance, repairs, and consumables.
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      01-31-2024, 11:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Gee, not much with proper horsepower pounds around all days from the factory like a Porsche. Yeah you can load up a Camaro or Mustang but big dollars, a base 911 or Caymen is ready to do basic track work.
Enter the Camaro 1LE

Your statement is pretty ridiculous IME. Yes, porsches are great at the track. I've witnessed this myself. They are made to be run over and over again. They love it and come back for more. And so does my Camaro. It handles excellent and is fun as hell. Mustangs have had a lot more trouble coming up with track-able versions that have adequate cooling, suspension, steering response, tires/wheels, brakes, etc., but Camaro was there all along with 1LE, ZL1 and ZL1 1LE. I have much respect for the Porsches and I see cars at our events that are obviously all "show" and no go. There have been some Mustang exceptions, except for the transmission, even the last generation BOSS was a pretty amazing car that could hang, but a lot of their stuff has simply not been "serious" like a 1LE, for track use. It's not a good comparison.
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      02-01-2024, 08:26 AM   #40
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I made specific mention of Camaro but you're nudging 6 figures here to load up a 1LE or 2SS. Consumables will be less but it is not cheap racing.
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      02-01-2024, 09:58 AM   #41
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I made specific mention of Camaro but you're nudging 6 figures here to load up a 1LE or 2SS. Consumables will be less but it is not cheap racing.
An SS1LE is a amazing track machine, whether 1SS or 2SS trim.

Point being...your statement was flat out wrong. These ARE set up from the factory to be track monsters, like Porsches. They aren't Porsches, nor am I claiming the interior is set up the same, but your basic thought was not correct. It does not take "big dollars", they are set up like this stock. You can get an amazing car built for track duty (that GM will warranty for track duty no less). That's putting their money where their mouth is.
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      02-01-2024, 12:40 PM   #42
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Quote:
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An SS1LE is a amazing track machine, whether 1SS or 2SS trim.

Point being...your statement was flat out wrong. These ARE set up from the factory to be track monsters, like Porsches. They aren't Porsches, nor am I claiming the interior is set up the same, but your basic thought was not correct. It does not take "big dollars", they are set up like this stock. You can get an amazing car built for track duty (that GM will warranty for track duty no less). That's putting their money where their mouth is.
6 figures isn't big dollars? My statement was clearly that yeah you can grab a Camaro or Stang but it's still gonna cost you. 100k is nothing to sneeze at.
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      02-04-2024, 09:06 AM   #43
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I love these threads!
sounds like you have a thing for porsche
do you appreciate naturally aspirated cars?
if you do:
then 2017-2018 R8 V10 PLUS or
991.2 GT3 more like $250K cdn on the road, but it will blow your socks off
if you like turbos then 991.2 turbo S
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      02-06-2024, 06:07 PM   #44
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What do you do for a living OP? To afford a car like that, your marginal tax rate is the highest in Canada
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