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      02-29-2024, 04:55 PM   #89
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7 of our last 8 cars have been BMWs.

Usually keep them for 4 to 5 years.

Quality has improved in my view since 2015.

The last four cars - 3 had no problems. One, the new X1 2.8i (2023), my wife's suv/car, had 1 problem (completely shut down) but it was repaired satisfactorily at dealership (the issue has not recurred in the last six months).
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      02-29-2024, 07:07 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Where have I said anything about reliability? I've owned BMWs from the 1980's, 1990's, and 2000's. I've never had any reliability issues with them. 1M+ miles and just twice one needed a flatbed ride home. Toyotas don't last as long as BMWs.

If ancient tech means something without iDrive and driver aids, yup, that's me. I bought ultimate driving machines. I don't need the car to tell me there's a car in the mirror. Lol.
Toyota don't last as long as BMW's takes the prize right there
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      02-29-2024, 08:09 PM   #91
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Toyota don't last as long as BMW's takes the prize right there
Get in a 12 year old 170,000-mile Camry and a 12 year old 170,000 BMW. The Camry's interior will have disentrigrated, paint faded, seals toast, lights fogged over, and the exhaust rusted out.

The Camry is a mis-matched tire college sophomore hand-me-down, while the BMW is sought-after piece of automotive hardware admired for its beauty, athleticism, and stoutness.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 02-29-2024 at 08:17 PM..
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      02-29-2024, 08:21 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by wknddrivr View Post
I can attest to Mercedes being complete junk.

After having a bunch of BMWs, I got a 2022 E450. I've had 5 unscheduled services visits for various items in less than 1 year. One of the issues is a thumping sound feel. The first 3 times I brought it in, I asked them to address this and they said there was nothing wrong. The 4th time, they acknowledge something was off, but didn't have time to diagnose it because they let the car sit on the lot for 2 weeks before looking at it, and I had to leave for a trip. Now the car is currently at another dealer who also acknowledged the problem, and the car has been there for 2.5 weeks while they supposedly wait for a special tool to diagnose it because their standard checks turned up nothing.

Every visit to Mercedes has resulted in the car being there for a minimum of 2 weeks, sometimes the issues would be fixed, other times they tell me the items were fixed only to find they weren't...(driver seat was creaking, they had to replace a bracket, broke massage seat. Refused to take car home until they fix massage seat. They call me a week later telling me the seat works. Drive to dealer, sit in car, turn on massage and it's not working. They have it for another week to fix). This has happened with 5 services visits to 4 separate dealers...so Mercedes clearly has a serious quality control issue, and poor dealer network.

I've had a lot of BMWs and they've been mostly reliable. My experience with BMW dealers has been night and day better than the experience I have had with Mercedes. I've found BMW services centers to be [...]
I owned 1 Benz back in 2008. A ML550. It was a catastrophe. Dumped it, went back to BMW and have stayed clear of Benz. Was tempted to buy a E63s, but couldn’t do it.
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      02-29-2024, 08:34 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Get in a 12 year old 170,000-mile Camry and a 12 year old 170,000 BMW. The Camry's interior will have disentrigrated, paint faded, seals toast, lights fogged over, and the exhaust rusted out.

The Camry is a mis-matched tire college sophomore hand-me-down, while the BMW is sought-after piece of automotive hardware admired for its beauty, athleticism, and stoutness.
Did AI write that for you?
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      02-29-2024, 08:37 PM   #94
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I test drove an E63 and C63 about five or so years ago before I bought my first M5. The C63 felt so cheap. The E63 was better but was not even close to the same feel as the M5. I really wanted to like the E63, for no other reason than there is a local Mercedes dealer that isn't a Sonic dealership. At that time, I didn't know anything about performance deliveries or anything...

I also test drove a used S63 at the time, and it was pretty cool. What irritates me is Mercedes seems to arbitrarily hold back on quality depending on the pricepoint. I know what a shocker, but they seem to do it way too aggressively. Even the C63 should have been way less plastic.
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      02-29-2024, 08:54 PM   #95
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      02-29-2024, 09:06 PM   #96
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Not going to sit here and argue early gen F series vs E series because I 100% will say that they are both junk.

I owned 3 E series cars... 2 x 335i and 1 x 135i... so I had numerous N54s and N55s in my stable... i will tell you right now that at the time they were the finest sporty sedans and coupes on earth... but that was a whopping 15 years ago now and things have drastically changed. First off - the reliability of those cars was absolutely horrid... the N54 is indeed as bad as people say, I have experience to back that up. Second - the suspension tied to those first gen runflats was unbearable and the car had severe traction issues with that junk rear end and lack of a true rear limited slip diff. It was nearly impossible to throw into a slide for that reason... the steering was very solid in terms of feel but the non M racks were also incredibly slow. The non M f series was made softer so it was even worse... but at the time the Lci 340i came around, it was a better car in every way.

Now, once we get into the G series everything is on another level... the M340i is stiffer, faster, more reliable and does everything better. You may argue its heavier and steering is less involving but the reality is that it will mop the older cars around any track or autocross you choose because the chassis is that much better.
Agreed about the RFTs and suspension. Though for some reason my 2011 is much more compliant than my 2009 (when comparing OE sport suspensions). A quality set of non RFT performance tires makes a world of a difference. N54 issues were eventually resolved. But you’re right. Of course the N52 is a rock solid motor.

The non M racks might be a bit slow for track duty but are a pleasure for day-to-day fun. And I’ve heard the Active Steering stuff in the E90 was quite good. Never driven one though.

Perhaps the M340i is more involving. The M440i I drove was quite heavy and reminded me of an older 6er.

What’s annoying is EPS doesn’t have to have tradeoffs. Newer Porsches are still just as involving and fun as the older stuff-it’s all in the way the racks are tuned.
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      02-29-2024, 09:34 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Get in a 12 year old 170,000-mile Camry and a 12 year old 170,000 BMW. The Camry's interior will have disentrigrated, paint faded, seals toast, lights fogged over, and the exhaust rusted out.

The Camry is a mis-matched tire college sophomore hand-me-down, while the BMW is sought-after piece of automotive hardware admired for its beauty, athleticism, and stoutness.
You are talking about a one in 20 or so occurence and with so many variables to make it inconclusive and of course you take it as gospel, LOL. Whatever floats your boat.
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      02-29-2024, 09:37 PM   #98
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Did AI write that for you?
On second read, yes, I would ask the same. LOL
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      03-01-2024, 06:16 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
Did AI write that for you?
Nope, all mine, and pure gospel.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 03-01-2024 at 01:42 PM..
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      03-02-2024, 07:38 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKI7777 View Post
7 of our last 8 cars have been BMWs.

Usually keep them for 4 to 5 years.

Quality has improved in my view since 2015.

The last four cars - 3 had no problems. One, the new X1 2.8i (2023), my wife's suv/car, had 1 problem (completely shut down) but it was repaired satisfactorily at dealership (the issue has not recurred in the last six months).
When I hear someone says they keep their BMWs for 4 - 5 years and were problem free, that's not much of a data point for me.

My current fleet of three (3) BMWs are:

E36/7: @27 years old, 198,700 miles. Bought new.
E90: @18 years old, 423,650 miles. Bought new.
E86: @16 years old. 120,100 miles. Bought used at 6 years old and 23,000 miles.

Prior to the Z3 I had an E30 @18 years old and 256,000 miles, bought new. I had a 5th BMW for a short period, a 2005 E46 330i Cabrio, bought used from a friend. I owned it from late 2019 to early 2022 starting at 100,000 miles and drove it to 135,000 miles. I sold the E46 to a family acquaintance, so I periodically get updates on how well it is doing. The new owner still raves how much she likes it.

When I say BMWs last longer than Toyota's, well, I have a lot of experience to back it up.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 03-02-2024 at 07:45 AM..
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      03-02-2024, 07:41 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
My current fleet of three (3) BMWs are:

E36/7: @27 years old, 198,700 miles. Bought new.
E90: @18 years old, 423,650 miles. Bought new.
E86: @16 years old. 120,100 miles. Bought used at 6 years old and 23,000 miles.

Prior to the Z3 I had an E30 @18 years old and 256,000 miles. I had a 5th BMW for a short period, a 2005 E46 330i Cabrio, owned from late 2019 to early 2022 starting at 100,000 miles and drove it to 135,000 miles.

I hear someone says they keep their BMWs for 4 - 5 years and were problem free, that's not much of a data point for me. When I say BMWs last longer than Toyota's, well, I have a lot of experience to back it up.
You also WANT to drive a BMW 400K miles. A Camry? No way in hell.

The metric I like to use is smiles per miles 😂
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      03-02-2024, 07:53 AM   #102
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You also WANT to drive a BMW 400K miles. A Camry? No way in hell.

The metric I like to use is smiles per miles 😂
I think a BMW can easily hit that 200k mark if you take care of it... the issue being not really the mileage but the age. This is irrelevant to what car make it is.

I drive 8-10k miles a year... let's say i even drove 15k miles... that would take me over 13 years to hit 200k miles... by that time, no amount of maintenance can prevent the wear time does on a car including but not limited to potential rust, paint fading, seals going bad, dashboards / leather cracking etc... I personally don't want to deal with that for that long and I don't want to be in the same exact car for that long when newer, better and often more reliable options inevitably show up in the market. That's not even including the tech factors that show up such as apple car play etc that completely change the driving experience. I couldn't imagine a car without it now.

Often when I hear folks talk about I did 200k / 300k on my car... my first comments are but where in the world are you driving this much and you are also now in a 20 year old car in a world where vastly superior options exist. Now if you are on a budget that is a different story... or if you have a 1 of a kind car i.e. an E46 M3 6spd etc... the latter applies to very few people.
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      03-02-2024, 09:05 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I think a BMW can easily hit that 200k mark if you take care of it... the issue being not really the mileage but the age. This is irrelevant to what car make it is.

I drive 8-10k miles a year... let's say i even drove 15k miles... that would take me over 13 years to hit 200k miles... by that time, no amount of maintenance can prevent the wear time does on a car including but not limited to potential rust, paint fading, seals going bad, dashboards / leather cracking etc... I personally don't want to deal with that for that long and I don't want to be in the same exact car for that long when newer, better and often more reliable options inevitably show up in the market. That's not even including the tech factors that show up such as apple car play etc that completely change the driving experience. I couldn't imagine a car without it now.

Often when I hear folks talk about I did 200k / 300k on my car... my first comments are but where in the world are you driving this much and you are also now in a 20 year old car in a world where vastly superior options exist.
Vastly superior options??? 👎🏻

Do you dump your girlfriend or wife because a hottie with a fabulous body appeared and you were attracted to her? ☹️

IMHO, you should keep a car no matter how many miles it has been driven as long as it satisfies your needs, you really enjoy driving it and it doesn’t have too many expensive maintenance issues. 👍🏻

I owned a 1994 325i convertible for 7 years, it had 44,000 miles and was trouble free. The used car manager at the dealer where I traded it in told me he was buying it for his wife. 😉

I owned a 2001 CLK430 cabriolet for 3 years and didn’t love driving it so it was time for a change. 👎🏻

I replaced it with a 2004 CLK500 cabriolet which wasn’t vastly superior except it had a new body style and didn’t suffer from the blind spots that the CLK430 had. I absolutely loved driving it and kept the car for 17 years. It only had 37,000 miles when I sold it and the only major issue I ever had were the hydraulic rods for the soft top that leaked and had to be replaced. 👍🏻

I sold the CLK500 when I fell in love with the G29 body and purchased a 2022 M40i which has been a dream and I can see myself driving it for many years. Especially because the B58 engine and ZF8 transmission are a perfect combination and most importantly it is a very sexy roadster which is a blast to drive. 😎
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      03-02-2024, 09:19 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Westside Guy View Post
Vastly superior options??? 👎🏻

Do you dump your girlfriend or wife because a hottie with a fabulous body appeared and you were attracted to her? ☹️

IMHO, you should keep a car no matter how many miles it has been driven as long as it satisfies your needs, you really enjoy driving it and it doesn’t have too many expensive maintenance issues. 👍🏻

I owned a 1994 325i convertible for 7 years, it had 44,000 miles and was trouble free. The used car manager at the dealer where I traded it in told me he was buying it for his wife. 😉

I owned a 2001 CLK430 cabriolet for 3 years and didn’t love driving it so it was time for a change. 👎🏻

I replaced it with a 2004 CLK500 cabriolet which wasn’t vastly superior exact it’s new body style didn’t suffer from the blind spots that the CLK430 had. I absolutely loved driving it and kept the car for 17 years. It only had 37,000 miles when I sold it and the only major issue I ever had were the hydraulic rods for the soft top that leaked and had to be replaced. 👍🏻

I sold the CLK500 when I fell in love with the G29 body and purchased a 2022 M40i which has been a dream and I can see myself driving it for many years. Especially because the B58 engine and ZF8 transmission are a perfect combination and most importantly it is a very sexy roadster which is a blast to drive. 😎
I can only legitimately have one response and that is good for you... lol your choice your cars. We live in a far more consumerist society these days - for good or bad depending on how you look at it... where holding old things doesnt pay off as much as it used to, due to service costs and lower longetivity of items.
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      03-02-2024, 10:32 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I can only legitimately have one response and that is good for you... lol your choice your cars. We live in a far more consumerist society these days - for good or bad depending on how you look at it... where holding old things doesnt pay off as much as it used to, due to service costs and lower longetivity of items.
Well hold on a sec. Your argument has been that BMWs pre 2015 are POS that do not last long and have lots of service problems. Your contention is 2015 and up BMWs transitioned into the realm of Toyota status with very little problems. So, wouldn't it NOW make sense to run a 2015 BMW for 20 years and 300,000 miles? Wouldn't a post 2015 BMW pay off more to keep it longer than pre-2015 models?

Your position doesn't hold merit. For nearly 60 years BMW has been supplying parts for its cars well past 25 years since the date of the last year of a model's production. I can still get nearly every part for my 27-year-old Z3 as a new part from BMW and for a reasonable price. If BMWs where so poorly made and not long-lasting (prior to 2015), why would BMW continue to supply parts for these cars that are well over 25 years old, especially cars like the Z3 and Z4, which were low volume production cars?
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      03-02-2024, 10:48 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I think a BMW can easily hit that 200k mark if you take care of it... the issue being not really the mileage but the age. This is irrelevant to what car make it is.

I drive 8-10k miles a year... let's say i even drove 15k miles... that would take me over 13 years to hit 200k miles... by that time, no amount of maintenance can prevent the wear time does on a car including but not limited to potential rust, paint fading, seals going bad, dashboards / leather cracking etc... I personally don't want to deal with that for that long and I don't want to be in the same exact car for that long when newer, better and often more reliable options inevitably show up in the market. That's not even including the tech factors that show up such as apple car play etc that completely change the driving experience. I couldn't imagine a car without it now.

Often when I hear folks talk about I did 200k / 300k on my car... my first comments are but where in the world are you driving this much and you are also now in a 20 year old car in a world where vastly superior options exist. Now if you are on a budget that is a different story... or if you have a 1 of a kind car i.e. an E46 M3 6spd etc... the latter applies to very few people.
This is my point about BMWs being long lasting, time does not affect BMWs like you state. They don't easily rust, the seals don't crack, the paint doesn't fade, the dashboards don't crack. One of BMWs worst interior build quality models were the early Z3 and E36 built in the then new Spartanburg plant in Tennesse. But my 27-year-old Z3 still has most of the interior in decent shape. The plastics suck, but they are still holding their own. The drivetrain, however, is in great shape. I just found two weeks ago the CV joint boots have succumbed to dry rot and are starting to throw some grease.

My now 16-year-old Z4, which was built at Spartanburg, is far superior in build quality than the Z3 that preceded it in production by some 11 years earlier. One thing that has vastly improved in BMWs since the 1970s/1980's is the audio equipment.
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      03-02-2024, 11:53 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by baldyloxx View Post
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a6159221985/

Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?

We ranked 34 brands based on the Overall Scores of their models, which include road tests, reliability, satisfaction, and safety

Attachment 3397870Attachment 3397871
Shame they can’t hold their value. 🤷‍♂️
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      03-02-2024, 12:06 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
This is my point about BMWs being long lasting, time does not affect BMWs like you state. They don't easily rust, the seals don't crack, the paint doesn't fade, the dashboards don't crack. One of BMWs worst interior build quality models were the early Z3 and E36 built in the then new Spartanburg plant in Tennesse. But my 27-year-old Z3 still has most of the interior in decent shape. The plastics suck, but they are still holding their own. The drivetrain, however, is in great shape. I just found two weeks ago the CV joint boots have succumbed to dry rot and are starting to throw some grease.

My now 16-year-old Z4, which was built at Spartanburg, is far superior in build quality than the Z3 that preceded it in production by some 11 years earlier. One thing that has vastly improved in BMWs since the 1970s/1980's is the audio equipment.
My E90s are worlds better than my old E46 (and yes, even my beloved E31). A quantum leap in just the span of 5ish years. The F and G series cars also hold up quite well. Though for some reason BMW just can’t seem to solve those pesky melting door handles…

Agreed on audio systems. The base I Hifi system in my old 335i was better than the Harmon Kardon upgraded system in my 330Ci. Though the base system in the M440i I test drove seemed to be subpar. But that was a vert where you need DSP and plenty of power.

It is a shame you can’t get the B&O system in the 3er. I have that system in my F10 and it’s AMAZING.
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      03-02-2024, 12:13 PM   #109
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No problems with my 2018 Jeep Wrangler. 72K miles so far.
I too have a Wrangler…I’ve had a number of issues in 39,000 miles. Now I have the dreaded hinge corrosion starting…a problem that is extremely common. My Jk was perfect, the JL has been much more problematic. Jeep deserves last place…not sure bmw deserves first place however based on my recent experience with my IX.
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      03-03-2024, 12:07 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer View Post
I too have a Wrangler…I’ve had a number of issues in 39,000 miles. Now I have the dreaded hinge corrosion starting…a problem that is extremely common. My Jk was perfect, the JL has been much more problematic. Jeep deserves last place…not sure bmw deserves first place however based on my recent experience with my IX.
It is hit or miss. I have a work-issued Jeep GC with 140k mostly trouble-free miles. It just depends….
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