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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos CT5 Blackwing, anyone on here have one?
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      03-02-2024, 08:41 AM   #1
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CT5 Blackwing, anyone on here have one?

How do you like it? How does it compare to a german car?

as a low end torque fiend, and a manual lover, this car has me intrigued...

I did buy a C7 back in the day with the same thinking, but didn't like it

it felt sloppy compared to a german car TO ME (many others seem to feel differently) and a big deal breaker for me was the lazy PARTIAL throttle response

curious if any german car lovers on here made the move to a CT5 blackwing and how that went for them...
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      03-02-2024, 09:23 AM   #2
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I test drove a blackwing a few years ago. The Cadillac magnetic ride is amazing, nobody does it better. Unfortunately that's the only thing they do well. It didn't feel as refined in all the other areas and the interior is cheap and plasticky.

Cadillac also limits production enough it's MSRP+ on pricing. I certainly can't see getting a CT4,5 blackwing when equivalent BMW's are not only less expensive, but faster.
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      03-02-2024, 10:40 AM   #3
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I dont think you are going to run into many unbiased opinions on this German car site. Ive had both American and German recently and feel differences are extremely overblown and German car owners tend to “overlook” the same or similar issues in their own cars-that they inevitably bring up.
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      03-02-2024, 12:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
I dont think you are going to run into many unbiased opinions on this German car site. Ive had both American and German recently and feel differences are extremely overblown and German car owners tend to “overlook” the same or similar issues in their own cars-that they inevitably bring up.
Hilariously true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
How do you like it? How does it compare to a german car?

as a low end torque fiend, and a manual lover, this car has me intrigued...

I did buy a C7 back in the day with the same thinking, but didn't like it

it felt sloppy compared to a German car TO ME (many others seem to feel differently) and a big deal breaker for me was the lazy PARTIAL throttle response

I'm curious if any German car lovers on here made the move to a CT5 Blackwing and how that went for them...
I recently purchased a CT5V Blackwing and couldn't be happier. The car is a monster. There is torque everywhere no matter the gear you're in.

I bought the car in Texas and drove it back to California. Spent 1500 miles getting familiar with it and man was it a blast. Every time I started it up I giggled. I love sitting in the car and feeling the car shimmy.
The manual is sooo smooth and shifts effortlessly.
Acceleration is mind-blowing. I had to consciously monitor my speed because I found myself going a bit faster than I expected. I've since gotten familiar with the engine noise/RPM's so it's much easier to feel what speed I'm at.
The Magnetic ride is amazing. Driving across 3 states was EASY.
Mine has the upgraded semi-aniline seats with the carbon fiber backs. Between the suspension and the seats I literally never get tired or fatigued sitting or driving. It's insanely comfy.
Steering is precise and like every other car, you can adjust how much steering feel you want.
Mine has CCB's and these things are ridiculously good at stopping this car. Great pedal feel, I can modulate stopping the car so easily. You can adjust how much pedal feel you want as well, which is nice because at the lowest setting, it's nice and easy but you switch to track mode and it'll rip your face off when you press the brake pedal.

No car is perfect, no matter what anyone says. The car definitely has some faults.

The car is tail-happy but that's expected with the power numbers. This is tail-happy but because of a suspension, E-LSD, and PTM, it's super predictable. I've gotten the back end to step out a few times and each time I'm like "Oh that's what I figured it would do" not "Oh shit well that was scary"
My 18 M4ZCP was super tail happy and it scared the shit out of me because I couldn't tell what it was going to do and it did it at the most random of times.

Gas mileage sucks unless you're cruising on the highway. Around town you're going to get shitty mpg, but those miles are all very enjoyable lol. I don't expect this to get hybrid mpg, I know what I have and already wrapped my mind around the mpg long before I bought this. The pictures I include show what I started at and ended at with my drive from Texas to California. Pretty much 80mph consistent the whole way.

Switching between drive modes can be annoying because there is a graphical dance each time you hit the button. Doesn't affect me much as I usually either have "My Mode" selected or I hit the V button (basically my settings turned up a few notches). What does annoy me is when I switch out of V mode, it defaults back to "Tour" mode and then I have to switch to My Mode. That is annoying. I wish I could change that somehow, maybe when they get a tuner figured out, it'll be available (like bimmercode).


I've owned this car a little over a two weeks now and I've put just shy of 2500 miles on it. She mostly sits in the garage unless I have to make a run to the store or I want to drive her. Which is proving a difficult thing not to do. Honestly it's addicting.

Attached the spec sheet and a pic just for fun.
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      03-02-2024, 02:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
Hilariously true.



I recently purchased a CT5V Blackwing and couldn't be happier. The car is a monster. There is torque everywhere no matter the gear you're in.

I bought the car in Texas and drove it back to California. Spent 1500 miles getting familiar with it and man was it a blast. Every time I started it up I giggled. I love sitting in the car and feeling the car shimmy.
The manual is sooo smooth and shifts effortlessly.
Acceleration is mind-blowing. I had to consciously monitor my speed because I found myself going a bit faster than I expected. I've since gotten familiar with the engine noise/RPM's so it's much easier to feel what speed I'm at.
The Magnetic ride is amazing. Driving across 3 states was EASY.
Mine has the upgraded semi-aniline seats with the carbon fiber backs. Between the suspension and the seats I literally never get tired or fatigued sitting or driving. It's insanely comfy.
Steering is precise and like every other car, you can adjust how much steering feel you want.
Mine has CCB's and these things are ridiculously good at stopping this car. Great pedal feel, I can modulate stopping the car so easily. You can adjust how much pedal feel you want as well, which is nice because at the lowest setting, it's nice and easy but you switch to track mode and it'll rip your face off when you press the brake pedal.

No car is perfect, no matter what anyone says. The car definitely has some faults.

The car is tail-happy but that's expected with the power numbers. This is tail-happy but because of a suspension, E-LSD, and PTM, it's super predictable. I've gotten the back end to step out a few times and each time I'm like "Oh that's what I figured it would do" not "Oh shit well that was scary"
My 18 M4ZCP was super tail happy and it scared the shit out of me because I couldn't tell what it was going to do and it did it at the most random of times.

Gas mileage sucks unless you're cruising on the highway. Around town you're going to get shitty mpg, but those miles are all very enjoyable lol. I don't expect this to get hybrid mpg, I know what I have and already wrapped my mind around the mpg long before I bought this. The pictures I include show what I started at and ended at with my drive from Texas to California. Pretty much 80mph consistent the whole way.

Switching between drive modes can be annoying because there is a graphical dance each time you hit the button. Doesn't affect me much as I usually either have "My Mode" selected or I hit the V button (basically my settings turned up a few notches). What does annoy me is when I switch out of V mode, it defaults back to "Tour" mode and then I have to switch to My Mode. That is annoying. I wish I could change that somehow, maybe when they get a tuner figured out, it'll be available (like bimmercode).


I've owned this car a little over a two weeks now and I've put just shy of 2500 miles on it. She mostly sits in the garage unless I have to make a run to the store or I want to drive her. Which is proving a difficult thing not to do. Honestly it's addicting.

Attached the spec sheet and a pic just for fun.
wow, thanks for the detailed and fulsome review

since I seem to be especially sensitive to throttle response, how do you find the throttle response on it?

I know it's a ridicously powerful car, but so was my C7 (obviously not as powerful).

thing is with the C7 GM programmed the throttle so it wasn't linear, i.e. 20% pedal did not equate to actual 20% throttle, more like 20% pedal was 5% throttle, they did this to make the car safer at lower speeds since it has so much torque.

what I didn't like about that is that unless I mashed the throttle, so gave it only mild partial throttle inputs, it did not feel very responsive

does it feel like if they did the same with the blackwing or is it more like whatver you give on the pedal equates to the same throttle opening?
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      03-02-2024, 03:19 PM   #6
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What I've noticed is that it depends on your drive mode. If you're in Tour then throttle response is soft and it's not overly "sensitive"

But if you want crisp throttle response then you can customize that in your "My Mode" or switch to V mode.

Love the customization ability and it allows people to have their choice how they want the car to react.
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      03-02-2024, 03:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
What I've noticed is that it depends on your drive mode. If you're in Tour then throttle response is soft and it's not overly "sensitive"

But if you want crisp throttle response then you can customize that in your "My Mode" or switch to V mode.

Love the customization ability and it allows people to have their choice how they want the car to react.
thanks for the additional thoughts

that make sense, but in my C7 the throttle was still lazy at low inputs even in track mode, sounds like that isn't an issue with the black wing

how would you compare the partial throttle response in the blackwing with your e90 M3?, those have epic immediate throttle response

I like a car with throttle response that directly connects you to the car, you give an input, you get a proportionate response

I find the NA bmws (like my e86 coupe) have that kind of throttle response, and porsches do as well

the C7 definitely did not...something that was an obstacle for me connecting with that car
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      03-02-2024, 04:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
thing is with the C7 GM programmed the throttle so it wasn't linear, i.e. 20% pedal did not equate to actual 20% throttle, more like 20% pedal was 5% throttle, they did this to make the car safer at lower speeds since it has so much torque.
My Camaro is the opposite of that, around town, 20% of pedal is more like 70% of the actual, responding much faster. I don't like that, because up top at high RPMs it makes it feel like there is "nothing left". They do this to boost the drivability at low RPMs...but it really doesn't need it. Track mode is a linear throttle though, much easier to work the power in corners too, so you don't break loose.

Each driving mode has a different throttle response though and I'd imagine the Caddy is the same, there's usually normal/tour, snow/ice, sport and track. So asking how a car is going to respond at 50% throttle is really going to depend on the mode. Unlike my BMW, when I put my car in sport, it would remember it and I wouldn't have to do it on every start-up.

Did you try track mode in the C7?
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      03-02-2024, 05:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
thanks for the additional thoughts

that make sense, but in my C7 the throttle was still lazy at low inputs even in track mode, sounds like that isn't an issue with the black wing

how would you compare the partial throttle response in the blackwing with your e90 M3?, those have epic immediate throttle response

I like a car with throttle response that directly connects you to the car, you give an input, you get a proportionate response

I find the NA bmws (like my e86 coupe) have that kind of throttle response, and porsches do as well

the C7 definitely did not...something that was an obstacle for me connecting with that car
Like RM7 said, it depends on your mode. Even in V mode you adjust the engine response speed (actual setting in the menu). So it all depends on what you want, they really did a good job of allowing you full customization of the power in the car.

That being said, my E92 M3 still had faster engine response, be it because of it being smaller, lighter flywheel, NA, etc. That engine was crazy fast, I loved it so much lol.
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      03-02-2024, 09:16 PM   #10
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BMW always calibrates their throttle response to be more aggressive than American vehicles. Drivers associate sharp throttle calibration with sportiness, and so if you want to make something with unimpressive power levels sporty, you just give it a hyperactive throttle, then boom, sporty

CT5VBW is a beast, but it's not going to be as luxurious as like, and M5. That's not their market position.

A manual CT5VBW is probably the safest investment car on the market. There's probably not going to be another big power, RWD, manual super sedan again. It's going to be kind.of the pinnacle of that segment.
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      03-02-2024, 10:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
thanks for the additional thoughts

that make sense, but in my C7 the throttle was still lazy at low inputs even in track mode, sounds like that isn't an issue with the black wing

how would you compare the partial throttle response in the blackwing with your e90 M3?, those have epic immediate throttle response

I like a car with throttle response that directly connects you to the car, you give an input, you get a proportionate response

I find the NA bmws (like my e86 coupe) have that kind of throttle response, and porsches do as well

the C7 definitely did not...something that was an obstacle for me connecting with that car
Sounds like you need a Pedal Commander or similar product on your cars. Gives you complete plug and play control of the response. Had one on my Hellcat Redeye and it went from a beast to a beast on steroids. Best bang for the buck!
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      03-02-2024, 10:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkGS View Post
BMW always calibrates their throttle response to be more aggressive than American vehicles. Drivers associate sharp throttle calibration with sportiness, and so if you want to make something with unimpressive power levels sporty, you just give it a hyperactive throttle, then boom, sporty

CT5VBW is a beast, but it's not going to be as luxurious as like, and M5. That's not their market position.

A manual CT5VBW is probably the safest investment car on the market. There's probably not going to be another big power, RWD, manual super sedan again. It's going to be kind.of the pinnacle of that segment.
That's the kind of subjective/bias stuff I was talking about earlier.

In short, no they don't. I had a 4 series, I had a Stinger, nearly clone cars, right down to the throttle response in regular mode, eco, sport and custom. These always reset themselves back to "comfort" too.

My V8 Camaro is able to stay in sport, and the throttle is regressive, it does the most during the first part of the travel, later on having "not much left", unlike Track which is linear. It's good for initial kicks/acceleration rate. It's basically the opposite of what you claimed above. Now, it's a big V8, it's not going to be as rev-happy as a 2L with a 7700 RPM limit (I've been there too), but just throttle response, totally the opposite of what you claim.
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      03-02-2024, 10:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcasa20 View Post
Sounds like you need a Pedal Commander or similar product on your cars. Gives you complete plug and play control of the response. Had one on my Hellcat Redeye and it went from a beast to a beast on steroids. Best bang for the buck!
This is definitely the way to get around OEM throttle-mapping. Especially for cars you have to put into the "mode" every single time you drive.
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      03-03-2024, 02:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
How do you like it? How does it compare to a german car?

as a low end torque fiend, and a manual lover, this car has me intrigued...

I did buy a C7 back in the day with the same thinking, but didn't like it

it felt sloppy compared to a german car TO ME (many others seem to feel differently) and a big deal breaker for me was the lazy PARTIAL throttle response

curious if any german car lovers on here made the move to a CT5 blackwing and how that went for them...
did you consider the Mustang Dark Horse?

that thing looks stunning (carbon copy of the G82 M4 - according to Jason Camissa - but better)

and it sounds heavenly

(also the only "American" V8 we can buy in this part of the world)
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      03-03-2024, 06:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
Like RM7 said, it depends on your mode. Even in V mode you adjust the engine response speed (actual setting in the menu). So it all depends on what you want, they really did a good job of allowing you full customization of the power in the car.

That being said, my E92 M3 still had faster engine response, be it because of it being smaller, lighter flywheel, NA, etc. That engine was crazy fast, I loved it so much lol.
when you "faster engine response" do you mean when you press the pedal even a little you get immediate response in that the car responds with a surge forward?

it sounds like you feel like your e92 was much better at that than the blackwing?

that is how I find NA bmws and porsches, they have immediate electric sharp throttle response, it gives you a sense of immediate and direct connection with the engine

my 2015 bC7 was not at all like that no matter what mode I put it in, track or whatever the other modes were

my C7 was much faster and had way more torque than the 2014 Cayman S I traded in for it, but it didn't feel faster because at partial lower throttle inputs the car didn't surge forward like my 2014 Cayman S did. As soon as I put some throttle in that (in normal mode not sport mode), the car responded and surged forward.

the C7 was not like that, if you gave it a little throttle, it didn't respond much, you needed to mash the throttle to get response and then yeah it was bloody quick

but I much prefer a responsive throttle even at lower inputs, sounds like maybe the blackwing doesn't quite deliver on that
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      03-03-2024, 06:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
My Camaro is the opposite of that, around town, 20% of pedal is more like 70% of the actual, responding much faster. I don't like that, because up top at high RPMs it makes it feel like there is "nothing left". They do this to boost the drivability at low RPMs...but it really doesn't need it. Track mode is a linear throttle though, much easier to work the power in corners too, so you don't break loose.

Each driving mode has a different throttle response though and I'd imagine the Caddy is the same, there's usually normal/tour, snow/ice, sport and track. So asking how a car is going to respond at 50% throttle is really going to depend on the mode. Unlike my BMW, when I put my car in sport, it would remember it and I wouldn't have to do it on every start-up.

Did you try track mode in the C7?

interesting maybe they changed the programming for the next gen camaro, my C7 was a 2015 and yeah I tried all sorts of modes.

I know exactly what you mean, sport mode in my e86 was that kind of artificial, a little throttle got you much more than a proportionate response and when you pushed it further it didn't offer much more response

sport in my 2014 Cayman S and even my 22 GTS is the same, artificial non-linear and I don't like it

but in normal or sport plus, the throttle is razor sharp and offers immediate response, and is also linear the more you push it the more you get

that's how I like my throttle, gives a real sense of immediacy and control
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      03-03-2024, 06:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g21 View Post
did you consider the Mustang Dark Horse?

that thing looks stunning (carbon copy of the G82 M4 - according to Jason Camissa - but better)

and it sounds heavenly

(also the only "American" V8 we can buy in this part of the world)
not a fan of the styling and even bigger than the CT5, so it's a pass for me

I tried a bullit when I had my M2 and I was like nah...
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      03-03-2024, 07:13 AM   #18
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Always loved these cars, but the size leaves them out for me. I'm a small guy and thus feel more comfortable in small cars. I have always preferred handling over power too, so the combination leaves a lot of cars out.

Still, I stop and stare every time I see one. Great cars.
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      03-03-2024, 08:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
I dont think you are going to run into many unbiased opinions on this German car site. Ive had both American and German recently and feel differences are extremely overblown and German car owners tend to “overlook” the same or similar issues in their own cars-that they inevitably bring up.
I'm going to disagree with that. I was anti-BMW after BMW refused to do anything about the injectors on my E92 under the recall because I my production date was off by 3 days. Same part #, everything. Just about everything broke too. Money pit.

I then went MB an it had poor quality. And then I actually wanted to buy a Blackwing, but every time I did the numbers BMW simply offered more car, better performance and more refinement for the $. In fact, no American, Japanese or Korean car offered the same feel and refinement of any of the top 3 German brands. If anyone can't tell the difference, well you simply don't have a feel for the finer points of a car.

If any other car co. was offering a better all around car than a BMW I can assure you I would be driving it.
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      03-03-2024, 09:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
That's the kind of subjective/bias stuff I was talking about earlier.

In short, no they don't. I had a 4 series, I had a Stinger, nearly clone cars, right down to the throttle response in regular mode, eco, sport and custom. These always reset themselves back to "comfort" too.

My V8 Camaro is able to stay in sport, and the throttle is regressive, it does the most during the first part of the travel, later on having "not much left", unlike Track which is linear. It's good for initial kicks/acceleration rate. It's basically the opposite of what you claimed above. Now, it's a big V8, it's not going to be as rev-happy as a 2L with a 7700 RPM limit (I've been there too), but just throttle response, totally the opposite of what you claim.

Maybe Camaro is the exception to the rule, dunno, haven't driven the latest one. My experience comes from American SUVs, trucks, Mustangs, and Corvettes. Those all have throttles that are basically asleep. My TBSS also has a 6L V8, and even with bolts and a tune the throttle is more slow to react than my X5 M50i.

No bias here, just experience.
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      03-03-2024, 10:17 AM   #21
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Fyi

A few dealers are discounting. Iirc, Michigan has a couple. 2k off, I did see.
Experienced haggler, me, could probably work a deal at just about any store.

I'd get a golf shirt or two and a coffee mug tossed in.
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      03-03-2024, 10:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
when you "faster engine response" do you mean when you press the pedal even a little you get immediate response in that the car responds with a surge forward?

it sounds like you feel like your e92 was much better at that than the blackwing?

that is how I find NA bmws and porsches, they have immediate electric sharp throttle response, it gives you a sense of immediate and direct connection with the engine

but I much prefer a responsive throttle even at lower inputs, sounds like maybe the blackwing doesn't quite deliver on that
You're considering two completely different engines. One is a 4L V8 that revs out to 8k+ RPMs with individual throttle bodies. The other is a 6L V8 with an additional supercharger on it that revs out to like 6k RPMs. The engine is fast (I've over revved so many times trying to rev match on downshifts). Would I say it's as fast as the NA BMW. Maybe. If it isn't I cant tell at all.

What I can tell you is that when you hit the button for rev matching and drop a gear the engine is already there. It takes a fraction of a second.
When you press on the gas, the needle moves.

My E92 M3 had an ESS 625 kit on it and it was the best car I ever owned hands down. It made me smile every single time I started it up and I would giggle every time I put my foot down and rowed through the gears. This car brings all those feelings back and then some. The biggest difference being twice as much torque and good lord does it make you giggle like a little kid when you smash that gas pedal. The E92 is still at the top of my list for the best car I ever owned (driving experience wise) but this Blackwing about to replace it. It's still too early to tell tho as I've only owned the Blackwing for 2 weeks and I had the E92 for 8yrs.

Funny story I took my girl out for her first ride the other day. I asked her "You ready?" and she's like "Yeah, hit it" So I hit it in 2nd gear, shifted 3rd (no lift shift is another amazing feature) and let off the gas about halfway thru 3rd. I looked over at her and she's like "HOLY SHIT I just peed a little"
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