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      04-30-2022, 03:03 PM   #23
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Retrogrouches always make me laugh. However, sure, it's true rn that the tech hasn't plateaued yet but it's inevitable. The 'trick' is just let the early adopters and ppl who wanna be the first in everything be the guinea pigs and move in only when it matures.
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      04-30-2022, 03:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
One of my bosses has a Tesla and he's pretty fed up by the lack of infrastructure. He has to drive a lot spontaneously so dependency on home charging doesn't always work. Tesla chargers often have lines and can add hours to his trips. He's often late and has to call into conferences while sitting in his car at a charging station.
Seems like he isn't smart enough to know he can charge at any DC fast chargers. Tell him to get an adapter.

Last edited by M3WC; 04-30-2022 at 04:55 PM..
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      04-30-2022, 04:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mikado463 View Post
agreed with Efthreeoh and with that being said the key (for now) is home charging. I predict in 10 years or less we won't even be having this discussion ......
There’s already infrastructure investing in MI for in ground charging stretches of roadway as well. Just one of many advances…..now will you be prepared for using just 3 seashells.
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      04-30-2022, 05:22 PM   #26
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There’s already infrastructure investing in MI for in ground charging stretches of roadway as well. Just one of many advances…..now will you be prepared for using just 3 seashells.
Did anyone ever concoct a theory on that? I'm just thinking it's made-up silliness unless we evolved into having waste like rabbits. Always bothered me lol.
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      04-30-2022, 05:29 PM   #27
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Did anyone ever concoct a theory on that? I'm just thinking it's made-up silliness unless we evolved into having waste like rabbits. Always bothered me lol.
You asked…https://scifi.stackexchange.com/ques...demolition-man

https://www.reddit.com/r/beatMeatToI...ree_seashells/
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      05-01-2022, 04:45 AM   #28
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When the lithium batteries finally die the EV is scrap, no one wants it then.
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      05-01-2022, 06:59 AM   #29
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When the lithium batteries finally die the EV is scrap, no one wants it then.
Nobody wants them now, but someone will when there’s enough of them and they can be recycled at scale.
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      05-01-2022, 08:06 AM   #30
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Nobody wants them now, but someone will when there’s enough of them and they can be recycled at scale.
Can't recycle lithium batteries, they are dead weight and will pollute the planet no end. The next generation is sleepwalking onto a trap door over misinformed governments.
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      05-01-2022, 09:44 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
This guy's experience will make you think twice.
The Porsche ev is very quick
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      05-01-2022, 02:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I just don't think EV charging will get to the point of a 400-mile recharge in 5 minutes. While we all like to think the advancement of "tech" is unbounded, unfortunately physics and chemistry get in the way.
That remains to be seen. I'm sure ppl during the horse and buggy days would think these cars w exploding engines were impossible too.
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      05-01-2022, 02:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
It's a shitload of tech going on in the background to make it convenient to long-distance travel in a Tesla, and you are at the mercy of the Tesla network to make the best trip possible, which means deviations from the travel plan are not well accepted.
And all of it only works if you don't mind handing your route, and IMESHO our life, over to the Giant Brain at Tesla. Because driving to their plan means driving on interstates.

I've been spending the past few days romping with a loony bunch of clownshoe folks 'somewhere in the Appalachian range.' The event took place about 500 miles from my home. I've driven ~1,200 miles so far and still have another stretch to go before I'm home. I could have done a lot of the trip on interstates but the fact is that, more and more, I *hate* driving on interstates. They're filled with sleepy, underpaid, angry truck drivers in poorly maintained 70-ton car crushers, or caffeine addled parents in behemoth SUVs with zero driving skills and even less of a care. It seems to me that driving on interstates is a fine way to double or triple one's already substantial risk of being injured or killed in an automobile accident.

So I've chosen to do the opposite. I plan routes that avoid all those kinds of roads. It takes extra time, yes. But I enjoy the drive 1,000 times more than I would droning across I-81. I see neat stuff, eat neat food, and meet neat people. All while reducing my risk of becoming a highway statistic.

I'll be happy to switch back to the kill-zone I-roads, if and when there is an autonomous driving lane that I can park my transport device in while I watch youtube.
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      05-01-2022, 03:24 PM   #34
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Ok, so just made-up crap as suspected haha.
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      05-01-2022, 03:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
And all of it only works if you don't mind handing your route, and IMESHO our life, over to the Giant Brain at Tesla. Because driving to their plan means driving on interstates.

I've been spending the past few days romping with a loony bunch of clownshoe folks 'somewhere in the Appalachian range.' The event took place about 500 miles from my home. I've driven ~1,200 miles so far and still have another stretch to go before I'm home. I could have done a lot of the trip on interstates but the fact is that, more and more, I *hate* driving on interstates. They're filled with sleepy, underpaid, angry truck drivers in poorly maintained 70-ton car crushers, or caffeine addled parents in behemoth SUVs with zero driving skills and even less of a care. It seems to me that driving on interstates is a fine way to double or triple one's already substantial risk of being injured or killed in an automobile accident.

So I've chosen to do the opposite. I plan routes that avoid all those kinds of roads. It takes extra time, yes. But I enjoy the drive 1,000 times more than I would droning across I-81. I see neat stuff, eat neat food, and meet neat people. All while reducing my risk of becoming a highway statistic.

I'll be happy to switch back to the kill-zone I-roads, if and when there is an autonomous driving lane that I can park my transport device in while I watch youtube.
You don't have to charge on the Tesla network. You would be surprised how many dc fast chargers are sitting in random small towns. Most likely never being used.
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      05-01-2022, 07:16 PM   #36
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I am not spending $50-80k on an expensive golf cart with body panels and limited usage that will complicate my lifestyle esp. during cold winter months.

Once they can provide 400 mi at -15c cold soaked and recharge within 10 mins anywhere we can chat.

gl with your carts
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      05-01-2022, 08:05 PM   #37
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There are multiple solutions here:

1. Plug in hybrids - some plug in hybrids have an EV drivetrain, AND an ICE drivetrain. The i3 is, honestly genius as well, EV with a backup gas charger. Volvo recognizes that a dual drivetrain is the TOP performance models. The T8 and Polestars are their fastest models, now with the long range versions with 44 miles of electric only range. Can't charge at a convenient location? Who cares. The gas drivetrain moves you along just fine. This is the way to move to the future

2. EV's with fuel cell sources. You don't HAVE to use a battery to power an EV. Hydrogen. Methane. Propane. Whatever. Makes efficient use of fossil fuels.

3. EV's with small nuclear engines. I know, everyone will laugh. Subs and carriers power absolutely huge vehicles with engines that are tiny by comparison to the ICE comparisons. In enough time, perhaps small nuclear engines can power the EV's of the future. 25 years or more per refueling. This is, of course, a generation or two away, but possible in the future? Maybe.

The real future of vehicles is a mix of EVERYTHING. ICE, EV, Hydrogen, etc. Future energy policy will have to be a mishmash of everything we have.

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      05-01-2022, 08:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavus View Post
I am not spending $50-80k on an expensive golf cart with body panels and limited usage that will complicate my lifestyle esp. during cold winter months.

Once they can provide 400 mi at -15c cold soaked and recharge within 10 mins anywhere we can chat.

gl with your carts
Yep. Kids' toys until performance in all respects equals or exceeds the current state of affairs.
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      05-01-2022, 11:27 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavus View Post
I am not spending $50-80k on an expensive golf cart with body panels and limited usage that will complicate my lifestyle esp. during cold winter months.

Once they can provide 400 mi at -15c cold soaked and recharge within 10 mins anywhere we can chat.

gl with your carts
And when they do you will complain they need to get 600 mile range -30c and charge in 5min. I remember when most EVs could barely get 100 miles and people would say the magic number was 300 mile range.

Just say you don't like it and move on.

It's like whining that trucks are too big and hard to park, get horrible gas mileage and don't fit in your apartment complex garage in the middle of the city, fuck trucks I'm never getting a truck! And I'm standing there with my 32' trailer like....

I couldn't get through the whole video, but the start was clearly whatever weird rental car app he was using. I skimmed through the rest and it seemed he was mainly complaining about charging... in Ireland or wherever he was.

Never once did I NEED to use a public charger in the year and a half or so that I owned the model 3 and the hand full of times I did go either to check it out (when I first got it) or just because there happened to be a charger where I was stopping anyways and I wont pass up a top off. Never once was there a line and never once were there not multiple chargers open. So if we are using one persons anecdotal evidence... I would have to say he's full of shit and charging a tesla is cake.

That being said I would not own an EV if I could not charge it at home, it kills the convenience for me. That does not make it a bad car anymore than a 911 is a pile of steaming dog poo because it doesn't fit your family of 5 or an SUV is horse shit because it can't do the nurburgring in 6min flat.
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      05-01-2022, 11:44 PM   #40
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Got rid of my Bolt EV for an M3, so I feel like I have some good input.

Wife and I used the Bolt to run errands, so for short runs around town and shopping, EV's are fantastic. We loved it. Plugged it in when we got home, and every time we went to drive it, it had a full charge, was the most convenient thing in the world...then the whole battery issue happened. This limited our charge to 80%, with no fix in sight mind you, just an open recall with no immediate resolution. On 100% charge we could get 240-250 miles out of it pretty easily (roughly 4.2-4.4 miles per kW) but when it got cold out, that dropped to 2.8-3.0 miles per kW, which was a substantial loss of range. The cold battery "degradation" plus the 80% charge meant substantially less range, trip computer showed 150-160 miles MAX in the dead of winter (20 degrees or so here in NC).

For what they are, EV's are very expensive. Our Bolt was mid 30s and had cloth interior, garbage interior quality (although that's probably more of a Chevy thing), bad speakers, no auto-high beams, manual seats, no adaptive cruise, the list goes on. For the same price as the Bolt, we bought a 2021 CX5, which has infinitely more creature comforts. If EV's comes down in price, we (the world) would see a MUCH higher adoption rate. The instant power and sheer convenience of never visiting a gas station or needing an oil change is awesome.

We (my family) will definitely have another EV, but prices need to come down AND they need more mileage. While the M3 could definitely be our primary family vehicle, the CX5 is just better suited for that role since it's bigger and gets better MPG. If an SUV EV existed that was a decent price and had 350 ish miles of range, we (my family) could very well be a 2 car family. But with current tech, an EV only makes sense to us as a 2nd car, which would actually be our 3rd vehicle, and we have no need for 3 cars between the 2 of us.
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      05-02-2022, 06:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavus View Post
I am not spending $50-80k on an expensive golf cart with body panels and limited usage that will complicate my lifestyle esp. during cold winter months.

Once they can provide 400 mi at -15c cold soaked and recharge within 10 mins anywhere we can chat.

gl with your carts
And when they do you will complain they need to get 600 mile range -30c and charge in 5min. I remember when most EVs could barely get 100 miles and people would say the magic number was 300 mile range.

Just say you don't like it and move on.

It's like whining that trucks are too big and hard to park, get horrible gas mileage and don't fit in your apartment complex garage in the middle of the city, fuck trucks I'm never getting a truck! And I'm standing there with my 32' trailer like....

I couldn't get through the whole video, but the start was clearly whatever weird rental car app he was using. I skimmed through the rest and it seemed he was mainly complaining about charging... in Ireland or wherever he was.

Never once did I NEED to use a public charger in the year and a half or so that I owned the model 3 and the hand full of times I did go either to check it out (when I first got it) or just because there happened to be a charger where I was stopping anyways and I wont pass up a top off. Never once was there a line and never once were there not multiple chargers open. So if we are using one persons anecdotal evidence... I would have to say he's full of shit and charging a tesla is cake.

That being said I would not own an EV if I could not charge it at home, it kills the convenience for me. That does not make it a bad car anymore than a 911 is a pile of steaming dog poo because it doesn't fit your family of 5 or an SUV is horse shit because it can't do the nurburgring in 6min flat.
Well I didn't say that so nice try twisting my statement. You do need to understand a bit of engineering to understand my position. Your assumptions are very limited.

If you have an active lifestyle such as going skiing, hiking, camping, biking, EV can be more inconvenient than ice. It is not ev's fault but rather lack of infrastructure.

Also, do you know how many people live in condos and townhomes and can't charge at home?

Let's take my dd e90 and compare to any ev. I can park it anywhere 12 mo a year in FOUR season climate, start it up and go ANYWHERE without worrying whether I'd be able to recharge it. I can cruise at 80 mph all day long and get gas anywhere within 5-10 mins. I can go skiing at -10C, park it all day, and drive back with min impact to the range.

The ev's today are still very primitive machines. Their simplicity should be an advantage and the cost should be lower than ice. Carrying ~500lb battery is primitive tech. I would consider ev at $25-30k only as a commuter vehicle with 200-300 mi range.

Is 9800lb e Hummer mature ev tech? Don't think so.

I do give Tesla credit for developing ev vehicle that has limited usage and pushing the ev tech fwd but it will be another 20y before infrastructure and modern ev tech is available to majority of population. Again, need to understand engineering of ev's AND infrastructure.

Now, imagine if you compare ev's to bmw 328d (euro 320d) or Jetta tdi?

How about work trucks pulling a small trailer like landscapers? Would they buy it?
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      05-02-2022, 07:43 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
And all of it only works if you don't mind handing your route, and IMESHO our life, over to the Giant Brain at Tesla. Because driving to their plan means driving on interstates.

I've been spending the past few days romping with a loony bunch of clownshoe folks 'somewhere in the Appalachian range.' The event took place about 500 miles from my home. I've driven ~1,200 miles so far and still have another stretch to go before I'm home. I could have done a lot of the trip on interstates but the fact is that, more and more, I *hate* driving on interstates. They're filled with sleepy, underpaid, angry truck drivers in poorly maintained 70-ton car crushers, or caffeine addled parents in behemoth SUVs with zero driving skills and even less of a care. It seems to me that driving on interstates is a fine way to double or triple one's already substantial risk of being injured or killed in an automobile accident.

So I've chosen to do the opposite. I plan routes that avoid all those kinds of roads. It takes extra time, yes. But I enjoy the drive 1,000 times more than I would droning across I-81. I see neat stuff, eat neat food, and meet neat people. All while reducing my risk of becoming a highway statistic.

I'll be happy to switch back to the kill-zone I-roads, if and when there is an autonomous driving lane that I can park my transport device in while I watch youtube.
Dad?
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      05-02-2022, 07:49 AM   #43
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You don't need anywhere near the range people say they need, if charging was good to go. Charging is a) too slow and b) too unreliable and hard to access. This remains the biggest barrier to full adoption of the tech. Until you can charge anywhere and everywhere in 5 minutes or so, there will always be a place for hybrids at the very least.
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      05-02-2022, 08:32 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
You don't need anywhere near the range people say they need, if charging was good to go. Charging is a) too slow and b) too unreliable and hard to access. This remains the biggest barrier to full adoption of the tech. Until you can charge anywhere and everywhere in 5 minutes or so, there will always be a place for hybrids at the very least.
When I lived in Toronto (Bloor West Village) the vast majority of homes didn't have driveways or garages so street parking was what you had. How are you supposed to plug in your EV? A few people tried running extension cords from their homes, if they were lucky enough to get a spot that the cord would reach. Then the City stepped in and told them they couldn't do that and there were the disputes over parking spots.
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