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      02-21-2024, 12:44 PM   #1
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Porsche 991 vs 981

This is such an interesting video and the guy's pretty impressive, one of those ultimate gearheads. I personally never got the mystique of the 911 because the engine's in the wrong area haha but it keeps bewilderingly winning, e.g. wasn't it EVO's COTY just recently? I don't get it, are all the other manufacturers just that bad even though they have the engine placement advantage or is Porsche just that good in out-engineering everyone?

Anyway, here you go:
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Last edited by tranquility; 02-21-2024 at 02:21 PM.. Reason: sp: meant 'mystique', not 'mystic' haha
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      02-21-2024, 01:00 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
or is Porsche just that good in out-engineering everyone?
Yes.
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      02-21-2024, 01:29 PM   #3
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I own one (997) and I don't think there is any mystique but there's really no competitors.

You can go the M2/Supra route, they're considerably heavier and less agile though. Most competitors at the same price point as a 911 are GT cars, not sports cars (Maserati/Aston/Jaguar). Next step up is insanely expensive as you're into exotics.

TBH i actually think Lotus is probably now the closest competitor in spirit anyways.

I will say though, if i did not need the back seats i would have bought a 4C and if the GT350 was a convertible i would have went that route. The 911 was really the only sports car to offer me back seats for the kids and a drop top and enough room for a picnic basket.
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      02-21-2024, 02:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I own one (997) and I don't think there is any mystique but there's really no competitors.

You can go the M2/Supra route, they're considerably heavier and less agile though. Most competitors at the same price point as a 911 are GT cars, not sports cars (Maserati/Aston/Jaguar). Next step up is insanely expensive as you're into exotics.

TBH i actually think Lotus is probably now the closest competitor in spirit anyways.

I will say though, if i did not need the back seats i would have bought a 4C and if the GT350 was a convertible i would have went that route. The 911 was really the only sports car to offer me back seats for the kids and a drop top and enough room for a picnic basket.
The Emira is pretty sweet but I think the price has gone crazy there too?

Ya, I lusted after the 4C but missed the boat and it's not practical at all as I'm sure you're aware. Why not a Boxster then if you were in that alternate universe?
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      02-21-2024, 02:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I own one (997) and I don't think there is any mystique but there's really no competitors.

You can go the M2/Supra route, they're considerably heavier and less agile though. Most competitors at the same price point as a 911 are GT cars, not sports cars (Maserati/Aston/Jaguar). Next step up is insanely expensive as you're into exotics.

TBH i actually think Lotus is probably now the closest competitor in spirit anyways.

I will say though, if i did not need the back seats i would have bought a 4C and if the GT350 was a convertible i would have went that route. The 911 was really the only sports car to offer me back seats for the kids and a drop top and enough room for a picnic basket.
I to have a 997.2 GTS Cab, very fun car.
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      02-21-2024, 02:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
The Emira is pretty sweet but I think the price has gone crazy there too?

Ya, I lusted after the 4C but missed the boat and it's not practical at all as I'm sure you're aware. Why not a Boxster then if you were in that alternate universe?
I think an Emira, delivered is like 140K CDN but a 911 is nudging 200K.

Can't do Boxster, need 2+2 seating. If I didn't need 2+2 I'd got the 4C because it looks a million times better.
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      02-21-2024, 03:06 PM   #7
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I love your quote. Where's it from?

Back when I was getting my Master's in Political Science, I was a firm believer. Fast forward several years, I find it inherently flawed for different reasons than what your quote explicitly says.
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      02-21-2024, 03:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440i6MT View Post
I love your quote. Where's it from?

Back when I was getting my Master's in Political Science, I was a firm believer. Fast forward several years, I find it inherently flawed for different reasons than what your quote explicitly says.
Oh, you're talking to me, right? Ya, I love that quote, it's about reality but lots of ppl still think there's democracy and that their vote or who's in office counts for something lmao. Would love to hear from you in another thread why you think it's flawed. Anyway, it's from Wall Street when Gekko was giving one of his many sermons to Budd.
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      02-21-2024, 03:22 PM   #9
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Yes, you can overcome inherent disadvantages with exotic engineering, like active sways, rear wheel steering, and on and on. For now, Porsche can subsidize this development with SUV sales. Its also no mystery why the “actual” cost of each 911 is 1.5xno options, to further add to the pot that can be used to fund this research and development. It gets harder and harder tho as time goes on IMO.
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      02-21-2024, 03:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
Yes.
If true, and there's good argument, all those others should hang their collective heads in shame. Pathetic.
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      02-21-2024, 03:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I think an Emira, delivered is like 140K CDN but a 911 is nudging 200K.

Can't do Boxster, need 2+2 seating. If I didn't need 2+2 I'd got the 4C because it looks a million times better.
I'm not up to speed in car prices at all. Wow, 200K for a Pcar? It's a great car and all but I'd be heading to the exotics w that budget. Heck, I think that the used market is even crazier?

Ya, they intentionally make the Cayman/Boxster not as 'sexy' in addition to detune them. Sucks.
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      02-21-2024, 03:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
I'm not up to speed in car prices at all. Wow, 200K for a Pcar? It's a great car and all but I'd be heading to the exotics w that budget.
Ummmmmmmmmm exotics at $200K CDN? They won't even let you in the door. $300K at a MINIMUM, bare minimum.

A used Audi R8 in half decent shape is well over 6 figures. I mean a 997.2 manual coupe (just a Carrera S) is nudging 6 figures.
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      02-21-2024, 04:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Ummmmmmmmmm exotics at $200K CDN? They won't even let you in the door. $300K at a MINIMUM, bare minimum.

A used Audi R8 in half decent shape is well over 6 figures. I mean a 997.2 manual coupe (just a Carrera S) is nudging 6 figures.
I dunno, the Roma is something like MSRP $242K? Close enough haha. Anyway, the used mkt is insane, right? Apparently, it costs MORE than buying new from what I read, at least during the stupid C period, who knows now.
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      02-21-2024, 04:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Ummmmmmmmmm exotics at $200K CDN? They won't even let you in the door. $300K at a MINIMUM, bare minimum.

A used Audi R8 in half decent shape is well over 6 figures. I mean a 997.2 manual coupe (just a Carrera S) is nudging 6 figures.
200k Canadian plus 13% tax and 10% luxury tax for any vehicle over 100k MSRP. Trudeau Socialism at it's finest. Punish those who succed.
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      02-21-2024, 05:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
This is such an interesting video and the guy's pretty impressive, one of those ultimate gearheads. I personally never got the mystique of the 911 because the engine's in the wrong area haha but it keeps bewilderingly winning, e.g. wasn't it EVO's COTY just recently? I don't get it, are all the other manufacturers just that bad even though they have the engine placement advantage or is Porsche just that good in out-engineering everyone?

Anyway, here you go:
So, the 911 has been an evolution over decades, (hence the "mystique") good engineering and marketing only makes good sense that if they can share parts they do. I could write a great deal about where his argument is excellent but misses the point.

The 911 continues to improve and crush the competition, it is the benchmark for a great many auto enthusiasts, I am lucky enough to own a 993. I love the thing, I also lust after 356's and 911 Turbo S, 911T, 911GT3 etc. I can see the utility of a 918, they are a great car and if I was going for a track car to beat around I might go for one for the economic reasons but 911 is the one that has the mystique. Hence the marketing and the price point. The market decides what they are worth.
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      02-21-2024, 05:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
I dunno, the Roma is something like MSRP $242K? Close enough haha. Anyway, the used mkt is insane, right? Apparently, it costs MORE than buying new from what I read, at least during the stupid C period, who knows now.
I'm crazy about the Roma. JayEmm did two or three in-depth videos about it. First Ferrari I've ever genuinely considered owning.
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      02-21-2024, 05:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I think an Emira, delivered is like 140K CDN but a 911 is nudging 200K.

Can't do Boxster, need 2+2 seating. If I didn't need 2+2 I'd got the 4C because it looks a million times better.
The 4C is a great looking car but like all of the Italians it will probably lose value quickly and the maintenance will be a bitch compared to the Porsche.
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      02-21-2024, 06:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
This is such an interesting video and the guy's pretty impressive, one of those ultimate gearheads. I personally never got the mystique of the 911 because the engine's in the wrong area haha but it keeps bewilderingly winning, e.g. wasn't it EVO's COTY just recently? I don't get it, are all the other manufacturers just that bad even though they have the engine placement advantage or is Porsche just that good in out-engineering everyone?

Anyway, here you go:
I would rather have an older used Porsche than a newer anything else.
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      02-21-2024, 06:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
This is such an interesting video and the guy's pretty impressive, one of those ultimate gearheads. I personally never got the mystique of the 911 because the engine's in the wrong area haha but it keeps bewilderingly winning, e.g. wasn't it EVO's COTY just recently? I don't get it, are all the other manufacturers just that bad even though they have the engine placement advantage or is Porsche just that good in out-engineering everyone?

Anyway, here you go:
I have this video in my feed but haven’t watched yet. I will say this, they are both awesome cars. You can’t go wrong with either. Get the Cayman for the rawer feel and the 911 for the slightly more refined feel. But as pointed out, there are lots of familial similarities so you’re not really skimping if you buy a Cayman over a 911.
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      02-21-2024, 06:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I own one (997) and I don't think there is any mystique but there's really no competitors.

You can go the M2/Supra route, they're considerably heavier and less agile though. Most competitors at the same price point as a 911 are GT cars, not sports cars (Maserati/Aston/Jaguar). Next step up is insanely expensive as you're into exotics.

TBH i actually think Lotus is probably now the closest competitor in spirit anyways.

I will say though, if i did not need the back seats i would have bought a 4C and if the GT350 was a convertible i would have went that route. The 911 was really the only sports car to offer me back seats for the kids and a drop top and enough room for a picnic basket.
I love the Alfa 4C but just couldn’t get past the lack of power steering and the seemingly odd pedal placement/feel/throttle mapping. It’s definitely not a daily driver like a Cayman or 911 is.
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      02-21-2024, 06:43 PM   #21
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Debating a 991.2 vs 982 for my next

But can't get over how crappy the 982 4 cylinders are. 981s with the 6 cyl are quite old now.

Leaning toward the 991...
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      02-21-2024, 07:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
So, the 911 has been an evolution over decades, (hence the "mystique") good engineering and marketing only makes good sense that if they can share parts they do. I could write a great deal about where his argument is excellent but misses the point.

The 911 continues to improve and crush the competition, it is the benchmark for a great many auto enthusiasts, I am lucky enough to own a 993. I love the thing, I also lust after 356's and 911 Turbo S, 911T, 911GT3 etc. I can see the utility of a 918, they are a great car and if I was going for a track car to beat around I might go for one for the economic reasons but 911 is the one that has the mystique. Hence the marketing and the price point. The market decides what they are worth.
They are definitely doing something right since the 911 is still kicking butt but I wonder if they instead put all their brainpower into a MR how much better it would be?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 440i6MT View Post
I'm crazy about the Roma. JayEmm did two or three in-depth videos about it. First Ferrari I've ever genuinely considered owning.
I'm usually pretty clear in my tastes in terms of what I think looks good but 2 cars have psyched me out: I thought that the Roma wasn't so hot when it first came out but now I think that it's their best-looking car. Their other stuff like the SF90 (front looks like an old Camaro lol) is borderline hideous. The other one is the new M2; I think the previous gen is overrated (looks-wise), fight me. Too bad the thing is like 1,8xx kgs fat....ouch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
The 4C is a great looking car but like all of the Italians it will probably lose value quickly and the maintenance will be a bitch compared to the Porsche.
For sure, that bolt-tightening maintenance seems like a minor pita.


Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I love the Alfa 4C but just couldn’t get past the lack of power steering and the seemingly odd pedal placement/feel/throttle mapping. It’s definitely not a daily driver like a Cayman or 911 is.
I'm surprised by this comment since every enthusiast supposedly loves good steering feel so what can beat unassisted steering?
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