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      03-01-2024, 07:07 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
It's not about blowing up. It's about screwing-up the evap system.
Don't want to pick on you, but people need to stop repeating old wives tales.

A - You will not "screw up the EVAP system of a modern car by having the engine running while refueling".

B - In older cars the EVAP test could run while you were refueling. And if you were unlucky enough for it to run twice on refueling stops you could set up the CEL. But it would be trivial to clear. It is the same thing that happens if you leave you gas cap off.

C - Newer cars only perform the EVAP test at highway speed. So, unless you have a tanker at highway speeds next to you refueling your car, you can't trigger that CEL.

In other words - nothing bad will happen by refueling a modern/newer car with the engine running. It is done all the time. No one blows up. No EVAP systems get harmed.





Now let's discuss how dangerous it is to refuel your car that New Jersey requires you to have a teenager or a poorly educated, non-English speaking immigrant to do it for you. As we all know, all laws make perfect sense.
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      03-01-2024, 09:27 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by baron95 View Post
Don't want to pick on you, but people need to stop repeating old wives tales.

A - You will not "screw up the EVAP system of a modern car by having the engine running while refueling".

B - In older cars the EVAP test could run while you were refueling. And if you were unlucky enough for it to run twice on refueling stops you could set up the CEL. But it would be trivial to clear. It is the same thing that happens if you leave you gas cap off.

C - Newer cars only perform the EVAP test at highway speed. So, unless you have a tanker at highway speeds next to you refueling your car, you can't trigger that CEL.

In other words - nothing bad will happen by refueling a modern/newer car with the engine running. It is done all the time. No one blows up. No EVAP systems get harmed.





Now let's discuss how dangerous it is to refuel your car that New Jersey requires you to have a teenager or a poorly educated, non-English speaking immigrant to do it for you. As we all know, all laws make perfect sense.
I guess my wife's car never does the evap test as she never gets on the freeway. She just drives around town.
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      03-02-2024, 12:33 PM   #69
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From the creators of dieselgate, get ready for the next scandal to roil the US EPA...evapgate! I wonder if the evap test also looks at all four wheel speed sensors in the ABS computer to see if the car is on a dyno so that it can enable the evap system?????
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      03-02-2024, 01:16 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baron95 View Post

Now let's discuss how dangerous it is to refuel your car that New Jersey requires you to have a teenager or a poorly educated, non-English speaking immigrant to do it for you. As we all know, all laws make perfect sense.
Not defending New Jersey’s law in any way. Fortunately when I was stationed in New Jersey I could save money and fill up at self service pumps on post. But, I’m guessing you weren’t around during the many decades of full service gas stations where someone pumped your gas and checked your oil and fluids at every stop for fuel that were the norm before increasing gas prices brought about the self service option. Of course, it goes without saying no one was leaving their motor running during a gas stop back then.
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      03-02-2024, 01:18 PM   #71
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Costco won't let you do it here. The attendants are on top of it.
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      03-02-2024, 01:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by nerdogray View Post
Costco won't let you do it here. The attendants are on top of it.
How interesting! I wonder why?
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      03-02-2024, 02:44 PM   #73
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How interesting! I wonder why?
Unsure, but they are pretty aggressive about it. I've witnessed them multiple times making a beeline to ask people to turn off their engines.
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      03-02-2024, 11:44 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
I guess my wife's car never does the evap test as she never gets on the freeway. She just drives around town.
Pull the gas cap off and let her drive. You will know when it runs the Evap check. You will find that you have to drive it for a while. And you need 2 cycles of detection to trigger it.
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      03-02-2024, 11:56 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Not defending New Jersey’s law in any way. Fortunately when I was stationed in New Jersey I could save money and fill up at self service pumps on post. But, I’m guessing you weren’t around during the many decades of full service gas stations where someone pumped your gas and checked your oil and fluids at every stop for fuel that were the norm before increasing gas prices brought about the self service option. Of course, it goes without saying no one was leaving their motor running during a gas stop back then.
I hear you. But think about our BMWs.

Do you think ANY attendant at a NJ gas station is capable of checking the oil level? Do they even know the procedure?

Do you trust said attendants to not spill fuel on your car or to not leave the gas cap dangling against the paint?

Do you trust them to check and put ANY fluid in the engine bay of your car? Do you know how many cars have been damaged by clueless attendants opening a pressurized cooling system to "top off"?

Cars are just too complex. These attendants are barely functional human beings. Why else would you get that job?!

You should not let them touch your car. When I refuel in NJ, I get out of my car, I insert my cc on the pump, and often I insert the nozzle before I see the attendant scramble to get there I act like I don't know if is full serve.

Nothing needs to be checked on a modern BMW on a fueling stop. tire pressures, oil level, etc are all there available electronically to you.

Having human beings performing these menial tasks is degrading and a waste of human resources.
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      03-03-2024, 09:07 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baron95 View Post
.....These attendants are barely functional human beings. Why else would you get that job?!

Having human beings performing these menial tasks is degrading and a waste of human resources.
Got me a laugh... and not even in the LOL thread.
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      03-03-2024, 09:20 AM   #77
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Why would you? I have seen diesel truck guys do it but don't understand why you would with a car. Even if it's frigged out it takes what 5 minutes or less to pump 15 gallons of fuel.
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      03-03-2024, 03:09 PM   #78
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Funny debate.

I leave mine running sometimes but not always. You probably have a better shot at getting hit by lightning while singing with Elvis than causing a fire. Even then the gas station is not going to explode killing a dozen people.
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      03-03-2024, 03:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdogray View Post
Unsure, but they are pretty aggressive about it. I've witnessed them multiple times making a beeline to ask people to turn off their engines.
Oh, I thought you were referring to pumping your own gas. Yes, I get gas at Costco almost exclusively and I can definitely see them doing that.
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      03-03-2024, 04:26 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baron95 View Post
Pull the gas cap off and let her drive. You will know when it runs the Evap check. You will find that you have to drive it for a while. And you need 2 cycles of detection to trigger it.
Ummmm, no; ain't gonna happen. I shouldn't have to do that anyway. I'm not opening-up the system and triggering the CEL. That's a smog check fail for sure.
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      03-03-2024, 07:02 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
I'm not opening-up the system and triggering the CEL. That's a smog check fail for sure.
Why do the group W bench song verses from "Alice's Restaurant" come to mind right now?

"What were you arrested for, kid?"

"Driving around in California with my gas cap off."

"...and creating a nuisance."
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      03-03-2024, 11:09 PM   #82
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Why do the group W bench song verses from "Alice's Restaurant" come to mind right now?

"What were you arrested for, kid?"

"Driving around in California with my gas cap off."

"...and creating a nuisance."
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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      03-04-2024, 12:32 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdogray View Post
Costco won't let you do it here. The attendants are on top of it.
So, there are dozens of cars around the tightly clustered pumps starting their engines, driving to and from the pumps in long lines.

But only the cars that are exactly in the process of being filled up can't have the engine running, when the cars directly in front, behind and across from you are starting their engines at random times.

Got it. Makes perfect sense.




P.S. I have actually seen these Costco customers lined up and filling their cars in the middle of a full-on lightning storm, and a ton of static electricity everywhere. But no one cared!!!!
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      03-04-2024, 06:20 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
You have never heard "Alice's Restaurant Massacree" before?

It is an 18-minute long rambling anti-war guitar ballad by Arlo Guthrie in the late 1960's, that starts out as a hippie going to Alice's house for Thanksgiving dinner, being arrested for illegal garbage dumping in a small town, getting drafted for Vietnam, and subsequently being rejected by the draft board (sent to the Group W bench with a bunch of hardened criminals) because of his arrest/conviction for littering.

My thought about getting in trouble for driving around with a check engine light to test the evap system in California is just as silly as being arrested for littering in Stockbridge, Massachusets.....
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      03-04-2024, 03:05 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
You have never heard "Alice's Restaurant Massacree" before?

It is an 18-minute long rambling anti-war guitar ballad by Arlo Guthrie in the late 1960's, that starts out as a hippie going to Alice's house for Thanksgiving dinner, being arrested for illegal garbage dumping in a small town, getting drafted for Vietnam, and subsequently being rejected by the draft board (sent to the Group W bench with a bunch of hardened criminals) because of his arrest/conviction for littering.

My thought about getting in trouble for driving around with a check engine light to test the evap system in California is just as silly as being arrested for littering in Stockbridge, Massachusets.....
Nope.

I don't know about where you live, but we must pass emissions teats and a CEL is an automatic failure. They can also tell if the light was recently reset and a certain number of drive-cycles need to be completed before the test can be run. Can't register the car without passing smog.

We also face an almost $200 fine for running without a front plate. Our dictator just signed a law creating a "hate-speech hot-line" where one can turn in their neighbor for giving them a dirty look.
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      03-04-2024, 03:35 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Nope.

I don't know about where you live, but we must pass emissions teats and a CEL is an automatic failure. They can also tell if the light was recently reset and a certain number of drive-cycles need to be completed before the test can be run. Can't register the car without passing smog.

We also face an almost $200 fine for running without a front plate. Our dictator just signed a law creating a "hate-speech hot-line" where one can turn in their neighbor for giving them a dirty look.
Gee, that almost sounds like my dictator. With Bill C-63, he's aiming to ban hate speech, with certain violations landing you a life sentence. But he's generously done away with minimum sentences for actual crimes...need to get those criminals back into society asap so they can reoffend!
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      03-04-2024, 05:50 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
I don't know about where you live, but we must pass emissions teats and a CEL is an automatic failure. They can also tell if the light was recently reset and a certain number of drive-cycles need to be completed before the test can be run. Can't register the car without passing smog.

We also face an almost $200 fine for running without a front plate.
I live in upstate NY. My DW is a licensed NY State inspector, and I know all about MIL (legal name for CEL) and OBD-II readiness states.

There are all kinds of hoopties driving around here with their MIL blazing, which prevents them from passing inspection and stops them from renewing their registrations. One of my DW's former co-workers had her drivers license suspended for 6+ months for driving around with an expired registration...one day of suspension for each day the registration lapsed because of the MIL.

If you think that your state is strict, I spent an hour two weekends ago scraping the driver/passenger door window tint off of the almost-Mighty Freightliner. It came to us from its previous owner with some extremely light tint on the two doors, and it was so light and well-done that neither of us noticed it. Inspectors are now required to test all windows with a tint meter, and upload the readings to the DMV mothership before the machine will print a new windshield sticker.

If that's not enough, they are also now required to report on the condition of both front and rear license plates. Not a reason for failure...yet...but they claim to be gathering statistics on paint peeling because they apparently got a bad batch from one vendor. License plate covers (including 100% clear) are an insta-fail, because too many people are using polarized covers to avoid the insane toll-by-mail bills in urban areas.....
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