[Blue Angel]

I've ordered a set of Silvers Neomax coilovers for my 535d (530d) XDrive. I was a little confused about spring rates since the two companies take such a different approach:

KW-V3: 9k (510lb-in) front, 3.3k (185lb-in) rear, both progressive spring winds
Neomax: 12k (672lb-in) front, 8k (448lb-in) rear, both linear spring winds

Comparing the two isn't really practical since progressive springs increase their rate with compression, however, the Neomax are quite a bit stiffer at rated specs. Thanks a bunch to member Unspec for providing lots of useful info, including his feedback having gone from the Neomax to the KW.

The takeaway is that the KWs are quite a bit more comfortable, but also quite a bit more compliant than the Neomax. Obviously the KWs are hugely popular and are an excellent suspension for this car. My approach was only hampered by budget, so I was looking for something far better than springs + OE dampers (been there, done that with other cars, not a fan) but that wouldn't break the bank.

So I ordered a set of the Neomax with 10k (560lb-in) front, 7k (392lb-in) rear, which are 83%/88% as stiff as the default rates for the Neomax, and 10%/242% stiffer than the KWs (again linear vs. progressive). I don't want to ruin the ride of the car, I just want to firm it up and lower it a little.

The Neomax offer a "Super-Low" option with those same rates and I'm only planning to drop the car 1.5" front and 1.1" rear, so I'm thinking I should be OK and not have any concerns over bottoming out. Time will tell and I'll update once I have them installed in a few weeks.

[lsturbointeg]

my buddy just removed his Neo Max coilovers and it has very minimal adjustments. his car sat low low and he ended up removing them since he was told he could adjust them up higher but from the tallest setting the car still sat low.

[Blue Angel]

There's an install video on YT from Thic Garage who installed the Silvers on an F10. He had the Super Low kit option, and even after lengthening the units from their as-shipped length he was nearly tucking the front tires.

Did your friend have the Super Low option? After watching that video his situation would make sense if he did.

[Unspec]

If you're DIYing the install, you'll need to drop the rear toe arm to properly torque the rear suspension bolt. There's just not enough swing room with the toe arm installed.

I think Silvers went a little nuts on the rear springs by default. The Neomaxx's I had "bucked" from the rear a lot harder than I liked, kind of like a horse was trying to halfheartedly kick you off. I'm very interested to hear how your springs rates are.

[Surly73]

When I put my KWv3s on, one of the biggest things I noticed was how stiff (really, more like "controlled") the rear was compared with the factory set up. More than a year later this stands out to me with the headrest meeting the back of my head more than ever prior to suspension upgrade.

Reading "242% stiffer rear than KWs" above concerns me. I'm not sure there's any need for that, especially linear. I love how controlled the chassis is now, but also wouldn't want it any stiffer. (Although it would tune out even more understeer or even tip over to oversteer)

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Unspec

If you're DIYing the install, you'll need to drop the rear toe arm to properly torque the rear suspension bolt. There's just not enough swing room with the toe arm installed.

Do you remember off-hand what the torque spec is for that bolt? Apparently it's a real PITA to get undone!

Originally Posted by Unspec

The Neomaxx's I had "bucked" from the rear a lot harder than I liked...

Originally Posted by Surly73

Reading "242% stiffer rear than KWs" above concerns me.

I spoke with Silvers tech support before ordering. According to them, the F10 Neomax is their most popular kit and they don't get anyone complaining they're too stiff. He cautioned that 6k (336lb-in) would be too soft for the rear of this car, so I only dropped to 7k from 8k.

I am also a bit concerned about how these will ride. I'll be sure to post a review when I get them installed.

Regarding the KW rears at 185lb-in, if you look at the way they wind their rear spring it has a bunch of "dead" or helper coils at the top. I'm wondering if the progressive part of the rear spring is just the transition between the helper coils and the regular section? This would make sense since 185 seems pretty soft compared to their front spring rate of 510. This car is nearly 50/50 weight distribution, so You wouldn't expect to see a huge difference front to rear.

On that note, the front lower control arm on the F10 puts a mechanical advantage on the spring and damper assembly since it bears on the arm inboard of the lower ball joint. I'll have to measure the distances between the ball joint, spring bushing and inner pivot bushing to see how much the spring rate is mechanically reduced by that lever setup.

Neither Silvers or KW had the stock spring rates available when I asked, so I could not make a direct comparison. More to follow!

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Do you remember off-hand what the torque spec is for that bolt? Apparently it's a real PITA to get undone!

250nm or ~185ft/lb. Yea, it's tight, I was basically bench pressing the torque wrench trying to get it done. It would have been way easier on a lift, but alas.

[Blue Angel]

Thanks, I'll be sure to eats me spinach ahead of time!

[jpmonty86]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Thanks, I'll be sure to eats me spinach ahead of time!

Any update? I'm eager to hear your opinion on this setup since we seem to have the same goals for an upgraded suspension. I intended to upgrade as soon as buying my f10 but it's been a little over a year now of just research. I've yet to pull the trigger on anything because of the potential regret due to poor ride quality.

One day..

[Blue Angel]

I received them, I just have not had time to install them yet. I'm getting the runaround from a wheel supplier trying to test fit some wheels (don't ask, lol) and also contemplating replacing a bunch of suspension bushings before doing the coilovers to make sure they're getting the best shot at performing properly.

They seem very well made, though the brake line brackets on the front dampers both broke through the cardboard box and got scraped up.

Bonus points for Silvers: they included a set of adjustable sway bar links which I was not expecting, so that's one thing I no longer need to worry about. Hopefully the geometry on the rear bar isn't too bad lowered.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

I received them, I just have not had time to install them yet. I'm getting the runaround from a wheel supplier trying to test fit some wheels (don't ask, lol) and also contemplating replacing a bunch of suspension bushings before doing the coilovers to make sure they're getting the best shot at performing properly.

They seem very well made, though the brake line brackets on the front dampers both broke through the cardboard box and got scraped up.

Bonus points for Silvers: they included a set of adjustable sway bar links which I was not expecting, so that's one thing I no longer need to worry about. Hopefully the geometry on the rear bar isn't too bad lowered.

The hell? Adjustable links? All I got were static links >

The KW's definitely came better packaged, I'll give them that. But the box was still beat to hell lol

[Blue Angel]

I haven't verified how long the links are compared to the stock ones, but they are adjustable. A nice touch for sure.

The damage to the brackets is small and purely cosmetic, but it's still damage.

[Blue Angel]

Here's a pic of the damaged bracket. Looking at it closely it does look like it may have a very slight bend on the smaller tab, but this won't affect function.

This is mainly cosmetic but still avoidable. In the case of these F10 application coilovers Silvers could likely avoid damage like this by simply not threading the end onto the shock body. Leaving them separate would put less weight on those brackets and make them less likely to poke through the packaging.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

my buddy just removed his Neo Max coilovers and it has very minimal adjustments. his car sat low low and he ended up removing them since he was told he could adjust them up higher but from the tallest setting the car still sat low.

So I'm not saying for sure, but he most likely had the Super-Low option. Mine are the standard fitment and with the threads in the bases at full engagement they are pretty long. This pic is with zero preload on the springs, the collars are just snugged up:

EDIT: These pics are portrait orientation from my phone so you may have to expand them to see the whole image.

[Blue Angel]

There's about 2.5" of thread engagement in the bases, and thread pitch is 2.0mm.

[Unspec]

There's plenty of adjustment for the silvers. I had the normal fitment and I could get it this high back when I had them lol

[Blue Angel]

Thanks for the pic, that will save me having to experiment doing the same! It all but confirms my suspicions about that kit being the Super Low that couldn't be adjusted high enough.

The shock bodies are quite long on these yet they only have 4-1/4" of travel. I assume the Super Low option just uses a much shorter shock body.

[Blue Angel]

Preliminary update: DON'T DUPLICATE MY ORDER WITH THE SOFTER STANDARD 10k/7k SPRINGS!!!

To recap: I verified my softer spring selection with Silver's Tech Support before ordering, and they gladly filled the order without any concern. Despite the small change in spring rate, it just doesn't work.

The weight of the car compresses the softer springs farther, which is obvious and expected. That extra spring compression is enough to cause some serious bottoming out, though. To counteract that behavior I added some preload to the springs. Silver's recommends 2 turns (4mm) which is what I started with. I cranked them up to 10 turns (20mm), and even with the added preload the suspension just doesn't have enough compression travel to deal with regular road imperfections.

At that point I called Silver's to make sure I wasn't overlooking something, and they had no suggestions on how to adjust the problem out of the suspension. I suggested adding even more preload to the springs, but they looked up the specs for the standard 7" (180mm) long 10k/7k springs and cautioned against adding more preload since I'd be risking compressing them more than they could handle and causing coil bind. They recommended setting the dampers firmer, but this predictably did nothing to help.

On top of that, with the preload at 20mm front and rear, the spring collars are so high that adjusting them on the car is not possible. On the front they're up behind the upper control arm, and on the rear they're hidden up behind the wheel well.

Silver's only solution going forward was to go to the default 12k/8k springs. I asked about using longer 9" springs that a) have more travel for preload adjustment, and b) would keep the spring collars low enough to be accessible on the car. Since I am concerned about ride quality they strongly recommended going with Swift springs.

So my 12k/8k 9" long Swift springs are set to arrive on Friday. I'm REALLY hoping I can report back with total satisfaction in how the suspension is working, because right now it's just not.

Ignoring the lack of compression travel and the resulting bottoming out, the ride quality is actually quite good on the 10k/7k springs and dampers set to 12/24. It's noticeably firmer than stock with much flatter cornering and far less brake dive and acceleration squat, but seems to soak up minor road imperfections quite well. I don't think it's out of character for this type of car, but definitely takes some of the "luxury cruiser" feel away. Because of the lack of compression travel I cannot fully evaluate this setup since I have no idea how it feels over or copes with larger road imperfections, and any kind of bump during a hard corner has it on the bump stops.

With the dampers at 14/24 they're feeling a bit stiff, but tolerable. Member Unspec told me that his Silver's with the standard 12k/8k springs required the rear dampers to be set at 16 to keep it properly tied down and that it was pretty stiff. I can believe it, and I'm really hoping everything I hear about the softer riding Swift springs comes true and that I'm able to keep the dampers to 12-14 ish setting.

These impressions are with the original boat-anchor heavy 20" 434M wheels and rock hard 35/30 profile runflat Dunlop tires. I'm hoping that a non runflat tire with a little more sidewall and a change to lighter wheels helps as well.

More to follow soon.

[Blue Angel]

BTW, regarding that lower bolt on the rear shocks everyone has so much trouble with… my M12 1/2" Stubby impact wrench fits in there just fine and pops that bolt out with ease! 😎

[Blue Angel]

On the passenger (right) side I was even able to get my big 1/2" drive Makita in there from an angle and get that lower bolt off. It didn't work on the left side because the exhaust was in the way, but on dual exhaust cars (535i and 550) it wouldn't work on the right side either.

[Surly73]

Pretty sure I got my air impact on the rear lower bolt with no problem when I did mine. It was retorquing it to spec that was the problem. With my long 1/2" torque wrench it a/ didn't go high enough and b/ I dragged myself across the floor. I got it most of the way there and asked the indy who did my alignment after the work to torque them. The front desk guy looked at me like I was a little weird but at pickup one of the mechanics from the back came out and agreed with me that they're a bear.

I won't even get into the front lower bolts at the knuckle. Something like 80 ft-lbs plus 180 degrees. I got to 160 degrees and felt like I was going to break a tool or the bolt attempting more. Between that and the fun working around the front driveshafts I never want to do the job again... The rear was a breeze.

[Unspec]

Agreed with Surly, it's not loosening that's a problem. It's torquing to spec that's an absolute bear. That said, I didn't have much issue with the front TTY bolts