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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Purchase Advise - 550xi vs Audi S6
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      07-20-2012, 09:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrumcap View Post
The 3.7 sec 0-60 and the 12.1 sec 1/4 mile were achieved using launch control. Probably the AWD + pre-spooled turbos makes the difference but you would think if the 550i xdrive had launch control, the result would be the same. All the Audi fans are going nuts saying the S6 is now neck and neck with M5 based on this one test and are sure the engine is pushing 500+ HP. I am interested in seeing some other head to head comparisons of the S6 to 550i xdrive.
+1, it's the same concept as the heavy GTR (now 0-60 in 2.8sec). Pre-Spooled turbos at 5k RPM + AWD Launch = Rockets to 60mph, even a heavy 2T car.

I'm a BMW fan, but the xDrive is inferior compared to the Audi AWD Quatro system (or Subarus/EVOs superior AWD). xDrive is not AWD, it's 4WD which the front wheels kick in as needed.

I'd stick with RWD BMWs.
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      07-20-2012, 10:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by gatoman39 View Post
Yes, but on S6 the seats,leather and interior are vastly improved. If I need AWD, I get the S6. But I can imagine it's gonna be much more expensive than the 550xi
Still look so uncomfortable comparatively.The BMW's layout looks very nice.



VS





To The OP .. assuming you have a 997 ..I would say get the 550.. You have the power and comfort.. As you have mentioned If you need a quick thrill you have your porsche.On a day when you really want to just relax and drive you will have your 550.Two sporty cars with harsh ride might get tiring sometimes

Last edited by luvthestck; 07-20-2012 at 10:09 AM..
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      07-20-2012, 10:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrumcap View Post
The 3.7 sec 0-60 and the 12.1 sec 1/4 mile were achieved using launch control. Probably the AWD + pre-spooled turbos makes the difference but you would think if the 550i xdrive had launch control, the result would be the same. All the Audi fans are going nuts saying the S6 is now neck and neck with M5 based on this one test and are sure the engine is pushing 500+ HP. I am interested in seeing some other head to head comparisons of the S6 to 550i xdrive.
+1, it's the same concept as the heavy GTR (now 0-60 in 2.8sec). Pre-Spooled turbos at 5k RPM + AWD Launch = Rockets to 60mph, even a heavy 2T car.

I'm a BMW fan, but the xDrive is inferior compared to the Audi AWD Quatro system (or Subarus/EVOs superior AWD). xDrive is not AWD, it's 4WD which the front wheels kick in as needed.

I'd stick with RWD BMWs.
Please explain to me why BMW:s 4WD system that kicks in when needed is inferior to Audis quattro system? And to me 4WD and AWD is the same thing, what is the difference? I have a 530d xDr and I am very pleased with the handling during winter. Another benefit is the hydraulic steering that IMO is much better than the electric one in the rwd models. The disadvantage with the F1x is the weight, it should lose 100-150 kg...
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      07-20-2012, 10:57 AM   #26
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I'm enjoying all of the viewpoints here. At this point, I am def leaning toward the BMW and now my internal debate is around AWD vs. RWD (and I know this has been covered in many prior posts).

I always get a second set of winter wheels/tires for my cars (even my SUVs and the 997) and I like driving on summer tires during warmer weather. I firmly believe that snow tires on a RWD car are better than all-seasons on an AWD car. Has anyone with snows on rwd wished they had awd because the rwd didn't provide enough traction? I ask because I have never driven a RWD car with winter tires in the snow (I get winter tires for my 997 because i want grip on cold pavement as the summer tires become hockey pucks - I learned that the hard way long ago).

I'm interested in the RWD for the slight improvement in handling, but also for summer tires and fatter wheel/tires in the rear. Is there something with the xdrive system that prevents fatter tires in the back?

Also - have people generally observed better resale value of xdrive cars?
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      07-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #27
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Resale/demand will be higher for Xdrive depending on where you live. Here in the northeast most people do opt for the xdrive if it is their only car. Another added benefit of it is having hydrolic steering instead of electronic steering that most people complain about in the rwd model.

Xdrives can run the same wheel/tires as the RWD counterparts. I suspect Bmw fitted the xdrive cars with non staggered wheels/tires is for better snow traction since the narrower the tire the better in that situation.

Also my current 335i is rwd and with 400+hp/tq on tap flooring it in low gears just gives me nothing but wheel spin. My buddy has the same car as me but xdrive and his car just takes off. If you plan on adding any engine mods to the 550 (dinan brings it up to over 500hp) i would highly consider AWD to be able to put all that power down.

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      07-20-2012, 02:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preeble View Post
Has anyone with snows on rwd wished they had awd because the rwd didn't provide enough traction? I ask because I have never driven a RWD car with winter tires in the snow (I get winter tires for my 997 because i want grip on cold pavement as the summer tires become hockey pucks - I learned that the hard way long ago).
AWD is not just for snow anymore, it get you thru a corner faster and take off with less wheel spin. I had AWD with all season and RWD with snow. I find the RWD with snow better in braking during snow condition and AWD with all season takes off better in the snow. Overall, I think with a good set of all season, the AWD is a bit better than the RWD. Unless you are tracking your BMW, the performance advanatge of the RWD will not be realized in everyday driving.
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      07-20-2012, 04:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preeble View Post
I'm enjoying all of the viewpoints here. At this point, I am def leaning toward the BMW and now my internal debate is around AWD vs. RWD (and I know this has been covered in many prior posts).

I always get a second set of winter wheels/tires for my cars (even my SUVs and the 997) and I like driving on summer tires during warmer weather. I firmly believe that snow tires on a RWD car are better than all-seasons on an AWD car. Has anyone with snows on rwd wished they had awd because the rwd didn't provide enough traction? I ask because I have never driven a RWD car with winter tires in the snow (I get winter tires for my 997 because i want grip on cold pavement as the summer tires become hockey pucks - I learned that the hard way long ago).

I'm interested in the RWD for the slight improvement in handling, but also for summer tires and fatter wheel/tires in the rear. Is there something with the xdrive system that prevents fatter tires in the back?

Also - have people generally observed better resale value of xdrive cars?
My 535i is RWD, it rolls around like a tank in the winter with snow tires. I drove through a couple 3in snow days with regular tires just fine, I just had to use extra cautions. Even if you had 4WD, you'll stop the same distance as everyone else on slippery condition. Just go RWD, you will not regret it. Plus, going side ways is so much fun.

xDrive = More cost, More weight, More maitenance, and More moving parts to break. Per your question, you can run staggered setup with xDrive. My E70 SAV has 10in front and 11in rear, from the factory.

Last edited by JNoSol; 07-20-2012 at 04:30 PM..
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      07-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bimmernerd View Post
Please explain to me why BMW:s 4WD system that kicks in when needed is inferior to Audis quattro system? And to me 4WD and AWD is the same thing, what is the difference? I have a 530d xDr and I am very pleased with the handling during winter. Another benefit is the hydraulic steering that IMO is much better than the electric one in the rwd models. The disadvantage with the F1x is the weight, it should lose 100-150 kg...
AWD = Full Time All Wheel Drive. All 4 wheels are connected to the power source at all time. 4WD = You can manually or the vehicle automatically select the drive mode depending on driving condition. xDrive are RWD vehicles, with the front axle/diff that engage the front wheels during launch and slippery condition. It doesn't give you the 100% security as the AWD system. After you launch your xDrive vehicle pass xmph, it will remain RWD unless your vehicle sense a wheel slip.

I have a RWD and I have no issues in the winter either, just as long as I have winter tires. Even 4WD, you still can't avoid changing your tires out when the weather gets near freezing (all season compound is no made for the winter, not matter how well they advertise it). Keep in mind that a 4WD vehicle requires the same stopping distance as any RWD vehicles with the same tires. Therefore, 4WD owners get false confidence in winter driving.

Hydraulic steering is very nice, but it's not too long before it'll become obsolete. Computers will simulate road feel and feedback. In the perfect world, a car should only have the alternator connected to the drive belt. Steering, A/C, Water pumps can all run as standalone units to save HP and Fuel. Look under the hood of a Prius, there's no drive belts.
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      07-20-2012, 05:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmernerd View Post
Please explain to me why BMW:s 4WD system that kicks in when needed is inferior to Audis quattro system? And to me 4WD and AWD is the same thing, what is the difference? I have a 530d xDr and I am very pleased with the handling during winter. Another benefit is the hydraulic steering that IMO is much better than the electric one in the rwd models. The disadvantage with the F1x is the weight, it should lose 100-150 kg...
AWD = Full Time All Wheel Drive. All 4 wheels are connected to the power source at all time. 4WD = You can manually or the vehicle automatically select the drive mode depending on driving condition. xDrive are RWD vehicles, with the front axle/diff that engage the front wheels during launch and slippery condition. It doesn't give you the 100% security as the AWD system. After you launch your xDrive vehicle pass xmph, it will remain RWD unless your vehicle sense a wheel slip.

I have a RWD and I have no issues in the winter either, just as long as I have winter tires. Even 4WD, you still can't avoid changing your tires out when the weather gets near freezing (all season compound is no made for the winter, not matter how well they advertise it). Keep in mind that a 4WD vehicle requires the same stopping distance as any RWD vehicles with the same tires. Therefore, 4WD owners get false confidence in winter driving.

Hydraulic steering is very nice, but it's not too long before it'll become obsolete. Computers will simulate road feel and feedback. In the perfect world, a car should only have the alternator connected to the drive belt. Steering, A/C, Water pumps can all run as standalone units to save HP and Fuel. Look under the hood of a Prius, there's no drive belts.
I don't agree that Audis quattro system is safer than BMW:s xDrive. And I definitely think an xDrive car is more fun to drive! AWD vs 4WD, just two different ways of talking about a vehicle with the possibility to have four wheel drive permanently or not...do you remember the 90's where a lot of the cars (especially from Japan) where labeled AWD regardless of what type of 4WD system they had?

As far as winter tyres, I would never drive with summer tyres or all season tyres in the winter. I live in Sweden where the winter can last from Oct-Nov until May so...it is also illegal here to drive with summer tyres in the winter.

I have owned several Audis and wouldn't dream of getting one again, the perceived quality is good but the actual quality sucks. The 5:er is my 2nd Bimmer, now at 7500 miles and six months old. If money was no object I would have chosen the M550d xDr Touring - the ultimate sports wagon
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      07-21-2012, 12:12 AM   #32
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Argument between RWD /AWD is very polarizing.

My take: Whats the purpose of the car: If its going to be your daily driver and you live in a geographical area with decent rain/snow I would go for AWD[especially as you have your 997].

One more point to be noted : The near exact 50:50 weight distribution in on 535 sedan
535 Sedan::Weight distribution, front/rear – Automatic 50.9/49.1 %
535Xi Sedan:Weight Distribution - Automatic , front/rear52.9/47.1 %
550i sedan: Weight distribution, front/rear – Automatic 52.5/47.5 %
550Xi sedan:Weight distribution - Automatic ,front/rear 53.9/46.1 %



Does that weight distribution matter on a daily basis?.. I am not sure...just something to consider.Though the 550i sedan seems better balanced than its X drive counterpart...with all that torque on the rear wheels....Wheel spin at traffic lights seems inevitable.

For me its either 535i or 550xi
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      07-21-2012, 01:58 PM   #33
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The description of the BMW xDrive system above is not correct. The standard front to rear torque split with the 5 series xDrive system is 40/60, with more torque going to the rear under certain conditions:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-xdrive-review
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      07-21-2012, 02:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terpinator
The description of the BMW xDrive system above is not correct. The standard front to rear torque split with the 5 series xDrive system is 40/60, with more torque going to the rear under certain conditions:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-xdrive-review
Thanks for the info. Interesting facts, also interesting to see that C&D criticize the electric power steering in 535i xDrive. They just forgot a tiny detail, all F10/F11 xDrive models have hydraulic steering...
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      07-21-2012, 03:36 PM   #35
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550i sir. Enough said
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      07-21-2012, 03:44 PM   #36
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FWIW, I ordered the BMW today! We are still hunting down an allocation, but I hoping to get the car by sometime in October. Again, this forum has been extremely helpful.

Also - I'm an idiot, I cringe every time I read the title of this chain.
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      07-21-2012, 03:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by preeble View Post
FWIW, I ordered the BMW today! We are still hunting down an allocation, but I hoping to get the car by sometime in October. Again, this forum has been extremely helpful.

Also - I'm an idiot, I cringe every time I read the title of this chain.
Congrats!!!!!!!!!! You made an awesome choice, i have no doubt it will exceed your expectations!
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      07-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by half man half amazin View Post
Congrats!!!!!!!!!! You made an awesome choice, i have no doubt it will exceed your expectations!
Ditto!
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      07-22-2012, 07:00 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmernerd View Post
Thanks for the info. Interesting facts, also interesting to see that C&D criticize the electric power steering in 535i xDrive. They just forgot a tiny detail, all F10/F11 xDrive models have hydraulic steering...
I think now all of them come with the dreaded electric steering... I read somewhere that starting MY 2012 it changed.

To the OP.. If $$ is not the issue I would jump on the Panamera.....That machine has got some road presence.

Good luck and keep us posted about your impressions.. I am in the same boat as you are.My lease runs out in a year and I need a bigger car.

Are you leasing or buying?
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      07-22-2012, 08:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvthestck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmernerd View Post
Thanks for the info. Interesting facts, also interesting to see that C&D criticize the electric power steering in 535i xDrive. They just forgot a tiny detail, all F10/F11 xDrive models have hydraulic steering...
I think now all of them come with the dreaded electric steering... I read somewhere that starting MY 2012 it changed.

To the OP.. If $$ is not the issue I would jump on the Panamera.....That machine has got some road presence.

Good luck and keep us posted about your impressions.. I am in the same boat as you are.My lease runs out in a year and I need a bigger car.

Are you leasing or buying?
Nope, xDrive models (5-series, 6-series) all have hydraulic steering. No change there (I have a 530d xDr F11 MY 2012 myself...)
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      07-22-2012, 01:40 PM   #41
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No Panamera for me - sold my Cayenne to get this; the Cayenne and Panamera are virtually identical on the inside - the Cayenne just drives a bit more like a truck. I had quality issues (i.e., rattles) with the interior of the Cayenne that the dealer couldn't fix, so I didn't want to award Porsche by buying another one of their cars.

I'm very much looking forward to the BMW experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvthestck View Post
I think now all of them come with the dreaded electric steering... I read somewhere that starting MY 2012 it changed.

To the OP.. If $$ is not the issue I would jump on the Panamera.....That machine has got some road presence.

Good luck and keep us posted about your impressions.. I am in the same boat as you are.My lease runs out in a year and I need a bigger car.

Are you leasing or buying?
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      07-22-2012, 06:37 PM   #42
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I'm very much looking forward to the BMW experience.
\

The f10 is one solid machine, you will not find any rattles in the 5 series, unless you have really bad luck
I am surprise you have owned so many brands and never a BMW, usually BMW is on most people's top 3 list.
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      07-22-2012, 07:25 PM   #43
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Truth be told, I have wanted a BMW for a very long time. I used to live in northern NJ where Morristown BMW was the closest dealer. In my experience, they were the worst dealer I have ever been to (and I went on several different occasions). Every time I went, it took forever to talk to a salesperson and when I finally did, they never had any vehicles 'available' for a test drive. My experience was the same all the times I went.

I am happy to report that the local dealer I interacted with was one of the 'plus' factors in my decision to get the 550 over the S6 - the experience at my local dealer was amazing.
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      07-24-2012, 04:53 PM   #44
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I know everyone's experience will vary, but this is my personal experience with Audi's and BMW's. I've been a fan of BMW's for a long time, had a 2001 323i, 2002 m3, 2004 645ci thoughout the years. Personally, I've never had a problem with any of those cars during ownership. I decided I wanted something different for my last car, so I switched to a 2010 audi s4.

It drove pretty great, and I thought the interior was really nicely done. However, please be aware that with Audi, only the first oil service is free, and the subsequent services are to be paid for from the owner's pocket.

After a year of ownership, the experience went downhill for me fast. First the water pump on the s4 broke down, leaving me stranded on the highway. After getting it replaced with the same model pump, it broke down again a few months later (stranded again). They later replaced it with a newly designed water pump.

A few months after that, the thermostat malfunctioned and needed to be replaced, leaving me yet again stranded by the road due to the engine overheating. Fast forward a couple of months ago.. A transmission error pops up while I was driving to dinner. I could still drive the car, but the power would cut off randomly throughout the trip home. The diagnosis was a new software update for the transmission.

These problems happened with a brand new car within the first 2.5 years of ownership. Granted, it might just be an isolated case, and I've heard some people have also had lots of problems from BMW's. However, for myself, I've since swore off Audi's in general.

So I've just ordered a 2013 550xi for my next car.
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