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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) The New BMW DTM P48 Engine Returns to Its Roots
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      04-25-2019, 03:21 PM   #23
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This little engine is delicious. A future 4-cyl M car in the works that returns BMW to their roots.
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      04-25-2019, 03:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by deemo319 View Post
This little engine is delicious. A future 4-cyl M car in the works that returns BMW to their roots.
I imagine they might combine w a high output electric motor in combo ...💥 low end torque issues solved 💪🏽
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      04-25-2019, 04:52 PM   #25
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Well how 'bout that. Now let's see the dyno graph. Pure lag below 5k probably. no power... no power... a little power... a little power... a lit.. TOO MUCH POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

lol I still think it's cool though.
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      04-25-2019, 05:24 PM   #26
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Incredible, how they are able to produce over 600 HP with a 4 cyl. engine.
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      04-25-2019, 05:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorcan View Post
Quote:
There is no longer a direct charge air pipe, which supplies the engine with compressed air without any cooling. Instead, the P48 has a sophisticated dry sump system.
Huh? Who wrote this?
It's using direct injection.

"...In the meantime, components like the ignition distributor, fan,
wet sump and boost valve have since disappeared from the engine. There
is no longer a direct charge air pipe, which supplies the engine with
compressed air without any cooling. Instead, the P48 has a
sophisticated dry sump system. The oil required for lubrication
purposes within the engine is extracted immediately without any oil
being lost through splashes. Another part of this system is the oil
tank, which is directly attached to the engine. Efficient charge air
cooling also allows for increased performance and efficiency.

A consistent minimisation of friction losses, such as through
the aforementioned oil system and the use of high
temperature-resistant components that do not require cooling by the
fuel, make the P48 one of the most efficient BMW race engines of this
day and age.

BMW Turbo engines guarantee maximum sportiness. "
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      04-25-2019, 05:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby P View Post
Incredible, how they are able to produce over 600 HP with a 4 cyl. engine.
9500 RPM and a huge single turbo tuned to breath up there.

T
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      04-25-2019, 08:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Yummy this makes my S14 heart sing. !!


Please drop a slightly detuned version in a G87 M2 CSL... S48 kinda has a nice ring to it ...
P48

It's a DTM motor
Only F82 ( based on ) platform BMW is running in DTM so far as I know of
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      04-25-2019, 11:11 PM   #30
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Looks amazing! They can stick one in the next gen M2!
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      04-25-2019, 11:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby P View Post
Incredible, how they are able to produce over 600 HP with a 4 cyl. engine.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...ic-collection/

If you think it looks insane on the outside, you should have a look at the engine. This 1977 320 Turbo used a massively turbocharged 2.0-liter Formula 2 M12 powerplant. BMW figured these things to be putting out 650 hp, pretty outrageous for a four-cylinder, even today. These engines spurred on the development of BMW's turbocharged F1 cars of the 1980s, and the technological arms race that ensued is legendary.

Name:  546b3e4769ff1_-_2014_mu_1977_bmw_320_turbo02-lg.jpg
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      04-26-2019, 03:32 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
It's using mechanical fuel injection ///
It's not mechanical, it's direct injection. It's been written by a PR person who has no idea what they are talking about.

I see a big turbo one side and a small turbo the other side, so it's either a staged system or it's compound, depending on how it's hooked up. Either the small turbo gives the low down grunt and the big turbo takes over at higher rpm, or the big one pumps into the small one for very high boost levels. Our funnybike uses the second method (compounding) and makes 900hp out of 1500cc.

All that guff about space rockets and the charge air pipe, boost valve and fan being deleted is just nonsense. You can see these items in the photos.
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      04-26-2019, 07:39 AM   #33
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Correction: I meant direct /

Are you SURE it's a twin turbo ?? I dont think so

The similarities between the two engines; the original M121 engine from 1969 and the P48 from 2019; are obvious.

Both are 2.0 liter inline four-cylinder engines, both have single turbochargers
and both have fuel injection.

However, that's really where the similarities end.


Type: P48,
R4 turbo engine with direct fuel injection
Capacity: 1,999 cc
Weight: 85 kg (basic weight, according to regulations)
Bore: between 86 and 90 mm
Engine speed: max. 9,500 rpm
Power output: over 600 hp
Service life: over 6,000 km (per season)
Fuel mass flow restrictor: mandatory 95 kg/h,
100 kg/h with push-to-pass activated

The turbo charger in the P48 supplies the engine with 400 litres of air per second – 3,500 times as much as a human breathes. The pistons accelerate from zero to 100 km/h in less than a thousandth of a second – 1,200 times faster than a lunar rocket. The water pump shifts roughly 18,000 litres per hour. This is fast enough to fill a bath tub in roughly 20 seconds. 1,005 drawings were made for the final assembly of the engine, which consists of roughly 2,000 individual parts. Laid next to each other, they would cover the floor of a 250 sqm apartment.
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      04-26-2019, 07:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby P View Post
Incredible, how they are able to produce over 600 HP with a 4 cyl. engine.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...ic-collection/

If you think it looks insane on the outside, you should have a look at the engine. This 1977 320 Turbo used a massively turbocharged 2.0-liter Formula 2 M12 powerplant. BMW figured these things to be putting out 650 hp, pretty outrageous for a four-cylinder, even today. These engines spurred on the development of BMW's turbocharged F1 cars of the 1980s, and the technological arms race that ensued is legendary.

Attachment 2039909
This motor ?
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      04-26-2019, 09:07 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb001 View Post
Looks amazing! They can stick one in the next gen M2!
Exactly my thinking !

Brake_Late that's why I said that the moniker S48 would sound good -

As in " detune that P48 into an S48 and put it in a road going car like a G87 M2 CSL ..."
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      04-26-2019, 09:27 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb001 View Post
Looks amazing! They can stick one in the next gen M2!
Exactly my thinking !

Brake_Late that's why I said that the moniker S48 would sound good -

As in " detune that P48 into an S48 and put it in a road going car like a G87 M2 CSL ..."
Ahhh🍻 I read ya loud and clear 🙌🏼
except the 2 series part becoming a CSL ...
since the 2er isn't raced in DTM...adding to that the original CSL was developed for the ETCC, and campaigned in IMSA GT, and Group5 for example.
It is by no means a GT car.

The 2 has no comparable motor sports lineage.

BMW is a stickler for heritage and homage to its racing roots. So it only makes sense that any true CSL car should be birthed from a current DTM based car. Aka the M4. But nowadays... you just never know.

Not hating. Just 2 cents.

But it's not up to us...we'll just have to wait and see where it all goes. 🚆

I still suspect that whatever it's body -
the next CSL will have a combo motor of electric and petrol.
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      04-26-2019, 10:12 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb001 View Post
Looks amazing! They can stick one in the next gen M2!
Exactly my thinking !

Brake_Late that's why I said that the moniker S48 would sound good -

As in " detune that P48 into an S48 and put it in a road going car like a G87 M2 CSL ..."
Ahhh🍻 I read ya loud and clear 🙌🏼
except the 2 series part becoming a CSL ...
since the 2er isn't raced in DTM...adding to that the original CSL was developed for the ETCC, and campaigned in IMSA GT, and Group5 for example.
It is by no means a GT car.

The 2 has no comparable motor sports lineage.

BMW is a stickler for heritage and homage to its racing roots. So it only makes sense that any true CSL car should be birthed from a current DTM based car. Aka the M4. But nowadays... you just never know.

Not hating. Just 2 cents.

But it's not up to us...we'll just have to wait and see where it all goes. 🚆

I still suspect that whatever it's body -
the next CSL will have a combo motor of electric and petrol.
If there is one thing I have learned in my nearly 3 decades of bmw ownership, is that bmw really doesn't care about tradition. They will make signage , tout things for either ten months or maybe even ten years, but they typically will throw that tradition out the window in the name of profit.


Creating the " SAV" was against tradition.

Refusing to build an SUV became a new tradition that ended this year with the X7.

M motors carried an S designation.

" M motors have individual throttle bodies" used to be a thing.

Open deck ? Closed Deck ?

M3 meant 2 door coupe. Now that's M4 and the M3 30 JAHRE is a 4 door sedan.

Odd numbers are sedans and even number are for coupes. Well. Except for gran coupe.

The six series was a coupe for decades and then added 2 doors and became a gran coupe and then now it's a 5 door hatch.

We will not make an M from the 1 series.

We will not make a Z4M ..

We will not make an M3 sedan because M3 is for coupe only. Except E36M3/4. Never mind we don't want to cannibalize M5.. so no E46 M3 .. sedan oh wait .. fans were mad last generation .. let's make an E9X model ...

DTM Mirrors .. Became M mirrors and were that way for decades .. but suddenly weren't a thing according to BMW for the M2 .. oh wait ,.. fans mad ..

Etc etc.

I'm so used to BMW double speak, I include it as a second language in job applications.

Heck they still may roll out an F87 M2 CSL along with an M2 racing model program to replace the M235 racing in the next year ..
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      04-26-2019, 10:25 AM   #38
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Like I said ... we will see. My CCA join date was 1987, Jahre as well ...

so I hear what you're saying ..

except that the fact still remains that there is zero connection between a 2er
( a recently made, more affordable street car invented for a broader audience $ )

and true DTM, Homologation Type, or Touring Car Championships Type Cars.

I beg to differ with all due respect regarding BMWs POV on heritage and respecting their own roots... in fact they are aiming hard in this direction. Looking at their liveries looking at the new p48, heck looking everywhere it's evident.


Brings some more weight to the phrase : #respectyourelders"
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      04-26-2019, 10:30 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Like I said ... we will see. My CCA join date was 1987, so greater than three decades as well...uninterrupted... so I hear what you're saying ..
My CCA join date is 1980 - uninterrupted - member #23915
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      04-26-2019, 10:52 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Like I said ... we will see. My CCA join date was 1987, so greater than three decades as well...uninterrupted... so I hear what you're saying ..
My CCA join date is 1980 - uninterrupted - member #23915
Nice !
Low number...glad there are CCA Members here older than me ! Much 🙏🏼 respect and Nice to meet you.
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      04-26-2019, 11:34 PM   #41
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2.5 bar on a petrol engine sounds great..
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      04-27-2019, 01:50 PM   #42
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No more ITBs? Is there no value on an FI engine?
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      04-27-2019, 04:35 PM   #43
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I wasn't expecting much from the rules change from 8 to 4 cylinders. But watching a couple videos of testing, they sound really good. Although it is odd to hear a 4 cylinder Aston Martin.
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      04-29-2019, 07:37 AM   #44
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Quote:
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I wasn't expecting much from the rules change from 8 to 4 cylinders. But watching a couple videos of testing, they sound really good. Although it is odd to hear a 4 cylinder Aston Martin.
well to be honest they all sound like a bike engine pretty much... can be better in real donno..
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