[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by The Guvna

You guys may hate me for saying this.. but i am all for training before allowing somebody to purchase and own a firearm. I know I'm a commie, but this world is producing dummer people who are more emotional and less logical than ever.

Sorry!

No hate and I get where you are coming from but you understand the problem with that. They just make the test impossible for the average person to pass and voila gun control. And I'm all for an IQ test before voting but that won't happen either so....

[The Guvna]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

No hate and I get where you are coming from but you understand the problem with that. They just make the test impossible for the average person to pass and voila gun control. And I'm all for an IQ test before voting but that won't happen either so....

I would have it cover safety/storage more than anything else, no stupid non-dominant hand drills, that was hard when I was good at shooting!

100% agree on the IQ test also

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by The Guvna

I would have it cover safety/storage more than anything else, no stupid non-dominant hand drills, that was hard when I was good at shooting!

100% agree on the IQ test also

There’s no way to enforce proper safety and storage unless you want me and my peeps to be able to run up in your house any time we want. Trust me, you don’t want that! Non-dominant hand drills have their place in training, especially in my profession. Also, if we start using arbitrary IQ tests, welcome to communism.

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Also, if we start using arbitrary IQ tests, welcome to communism.

I mean....US and Canada already gave that the ol' college try back in the early 1900's and didn't become communists. Though back then, a low IQ test won you a forced snippety snip in some cases...wee bit worse than not being able to vote I think.

I see both sides. US is unique in that firearms are enshrined as a right, and any slight infringement could lead to a cascading effect. On the flip side, people are stupid, they are getting stupider, and I like the idea of them having to meet a stringent level of safety and care, coupled with knowledge of what they can and cannot do, before they carry concealed or open in society. The stupid people can still have guns for defense in their homes, or to take them to the range, or to hunt, but they just can't carry them in society until they pass those tests.

I know, you disagree with the second half, I get it. I'm not trying to persuade anyone, there will be no one that is a rah rah 2A person that says "Yeah, that sort of makes sense, I like that", I'm just explaining my rationale which is of little value to anyone, especially since I can't vote in your fine country. Unless I become a Democrat maybe...then could probably vote.

[Reborn_]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Two out of 15. If you're close enough, John Russo at North County Shooting Center is quite good. The video of the DEA agent shooting himself in the leg never gets old! You use the same target for practice as qualifying, so it's full of holes! John, as far as I can tell, isn't concerned about how many practice rounds you fire, even though there's supposed to be a limit. I had 4 pistols so brought about 200 practice rounds. The hardest is the non-dominate, one handed shot, but it's not too bad from about 15'. I, to my detriment, haven't been shooting since my last renewal two years ago and had no problem qualifying even though I was quite nervous. John also tells you what's on the test, and gives you paper for taking notes, so that part is pretty easy. On the four rules, "they" want you to write them verbatim from the lesson. All-in-all, it wasn't too bad trying to stretch 4 hours of stuff into 8 hours.

http://www.northcountyshootingcenter...instructor-bio

Thanks. This all sounds more complex than what I had to do last time, which was my first time, not a renewal. One-handed shot? Definitely not a thing I had to do.

I am close enough, I'm in south OC. But I was happy with my experience at Artemis Defense Institute and am planning to do their 'course' for the renewal. I've only got 2 pistols on mine, and will seek to remove one during my renewal, as long as it doesn't add any complication.

[The Guvna]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There’s no way to enforce proper safety and storage unless you want me and my peeps to be able to run up in your house any time we want. Trust me, you don’t want that! Non-dominant hand drills have their place in training, especially in my profession. Also, if we start using arbitrary IQ tests, welcome to communism.

We aren't talking about professions. We are talking about civilians with no training purchasing and owning a gun. All of my guns are within an arms reach, nobody is running up in my house mate

Point is most of the "stupid" deaths are from a kid grabbing it from a purse, or an idiot shooting themselves messing around or not clearing it before cleaning it etc. Basic training will not eliminate that but will help to identify and teach good practices.

[tcphoto]

Imagine if you had to pass an IQ test with a certain score to have children, drive or own firearms, the human race would be in peril. Myself, I keep my pistols locked up with one accessible in case it's needed. A family died from a gunshot so I understand the importance of firearm security. I also believe that a reliable background check is necessary and it could take up to thirty days to get an actual check, no one has to walk out the door with one when purchasing.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by The Guvna

We aren't talking about professions. We are talking about civilians with no training purchasing and owning a gun. All of my guns are within an arms reach, nobody is running up in my house mate

Point is most of the "stupid" deaths are from a kid grabbing it from a purse, or an idiot shooting themselves messing around or not clearing it before cleaning it etc. Basic training will not eliminate that but will help to identify and teach good practices.

Training is irrelevant. We can’t mandate training, nor do we have the resources and manpower to implement utopian views that are not properly flushed out. There are more gun laws and regulations on the books to make a person’s head spin. Another government infringement isn’t going to change anything just like another vehicle code added to the books isn’t going to change behavior on the road.

No, most gun deaths are PURPOSEFULLY PERFORMED SUICIDES, most often by legal gun owners.

Lastly, if federal law backed by legal precedent allowed law enforcement to enter your home to check for safe storage, restrictions regarding a homeowner’s response would be articulated as well.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by tcphoto

Imagine if you had to pass an IQ test with a certain score to have children, drive or own firearms, the human race would be in peril. Myself, I keep my pistols locked up with one accessible in case it's needed. A family died from a gunshot so I understand the importance of firearm security. I also believe that a reliable background check is necessary and it could take up to thirty days to get an actual check, no one has to walk out the door with one when purchasing.

No background check at this level should take 30 days. Checks are done against the CJIS database. If those records are not accurate, then there are bigger issues. As to no one needing to walk out with a gun the day of purchase, there are instances of women that were trying to purchase a firearm for self protection which didn't have it when the guy she has a protective order against or has been subjected to DV ended up hurt or dead.

[ezaircon4jc]

Something about "shall NOT be infringed" comes to mind...

The "problem" with a free society is inherent risk. IMHO, the problem isn't the "wrong" person having a firearm, it's the total lack of civility in today's society. There's a pretty good book about the 2nd Amendment (which aren't amendments at all, they're just acknowledgements of inherent rights) I read years ago (I think this is the book).

I do think ALL elected officials should be required to pass a constitutional test with a 90% or better. We have a dude running for governor who is falsely accusing Trump of violating the constitution, yet he has backed and enforced laws that are in direct violation of the 2A.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Something about "shall NOT be infringed" comes to mind...

The "problem" with a free society is inherent risk. IMHO, the problem isn't the "wrong" person having a firearm, it's the total lack of civility in today's society. There's a pretty good book about the 2nd Amendment (which aren't amendments at all, they're just acknowledgements of inherent rights) I read years ago (I think this is the book).

I do think ALL elected officials should be required to pass a constitutional test with a 90% or better. We have a dude running for governor who is falsely accusing Trump of violating the constitution, yet he has backed and enforced laws that are in direct violation of the 2A.

I am praying for California this election cycle.

[The Guvna]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Training is irrelevant. We can’t mandate training, nor do we have the resources and manpower to implement utopian views that are not properly flushed out. There are more gun laws and regulations on the books to make a person’s head spin. Another government infringement isn’t going to change anything just like another vehicle code added to the books isn’t going to change behavior on the road.

No, most gun deaths are PURPOSEFULLY PERFORMED SUICIDES, most often by legal gun owners.

Lastly, if federal law backed by legal precedent allowed law enforcement to enter your home to check for safe storage, restrictions regarding a homeowner’s response would be articulated as well.

I specified "stupid" deaths on purpose. Well aware of the statistics. You keep talking about safe storage as a "law", I never said anything about "law" just some mando training on safety and storage for those who may even buy a weapon for the best reasons and use but have no idea about safety.

Also training is not irrelevant. Worked great for my family (to include small children who are now adults) and plenty I know who had never even touched a weapon before. But its ok to have differing opinions as long as you are not changing what i wrote to make a point that makes no sense in the context I made it.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

If the court ever swings left our rights are gone.

Interesting statement considering the current administration's view on "rights", the constitution, and the rulings by the SCOTUS over the past 4+ years

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Interesting statement considering the current administration's view on "rights", the constitution, and the rulings by the SCOTUS over the past 4+ years

I don’t get it. The current conservative administration and court hasn’t done enough to lock down our rights. Some states and cities are down right ignoring their rulings. I think a liberal leaning court would go full attack mode.

[WVNed]

LOL
Some people think and some are told what to think.
Legalize drugs, ban guns. Free healthcare.
Yet doctors and drugs kill a million times more people than guns in any time frame you care to look at.

Of course we live in a society that needs warnings to not put plastic bags over our heads or stick hands under running lawnmowers.

Of course when I grew up your mom and dad taught you how to be safe with a gun. When you were about 4. And how and when to use one.

[vreihen16]

^^^^^^ Careful there, WVNed. Discussing politics on this site is an instant trip to banned camp.....

[WVNed]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

^^^^^^ Careful there, WVNed. Discussing politics on this site is an instant trip to banned camp.....

These days anything and everything is politics and a trip to the ban camp if someone wants rid of you.
None of what I mentioned is politics. It is history now.

I have to go finish the reading the safety warnings for my new electric coffee grinder. I got up to don't use it in the shower and took a break. Only 6 more pages of fine print to go.

Or someone could tell me about my Springfield Armory High Power. I haven't fired it yet.

I found this stuff under a forum called firearms.

Or is this about people that catch their arms on fire and I misunderstood. Haven't done that in a long time.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by WVNed

....

Or is this about people that catch their arms on fire and I misunderstood. Haven't done that in a long time.

I read a book on the history of the 2nd and how its roots go back to the Magna Carta. It was a bit of a tough read as arm, as in that appendage below the shoulder, arm, as in firearm and army, as in soldier were all spelled arme! Had to get the context to decipher what the author was talking about!

[WVNed]

I will tone it down. The time for discussions about many things has passed.

If the world needs saved by the efforts of an old fat guy with Parkinson's disease you are so screwed.

[Car-Addicted]

OK, I failed the IQ test so I'm not smart enough to walk away from this topic.
Personally I think any state has the right to require a test for concealed carry permit in the same way hunters in many states are required to successfully complete an approved hunter education course before they can purchase a hunting license.
Sadly that opens up what I'm calling blue state abuse, for which there is only a legal remedy. Remember the New York's concealed carry abuse case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen (2022). In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that New York’s requirement to show "proper cause" or a special need for self-defense to obtain a concealed carry license violated the Second and Fourteenth Amendments.
I've been a proponent of USCCA | U.S. Concealed Carry Association courses. Even as an experienced shooter and occasional competition shooter, I learned a lot specifically related to the law and defense shooting.
I don't think its too much to ask people to make a commitment in time and money to make sure they are not a danger to themselves and others.
In a perfect world, that would be enough but there are a lot of places where politicians will twist the law to make this as difficult as possible. Some times the only cure is a UHaul.

Next time your at your range look up at the ceiling and tell me there is no need for training. I have two friends that are range officers and they tell me some crazy stories.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

OK, I failed the IQ test so I'm not smart enough to walk away from this topic.
Personally I think any state has the right to require a test for concealed carry permit in the same way hunters in many states are required to successfully complete an approved hunter education course before they can purchase a hunting license.
Sadly that opens up what I'm calling blue state abuse, for which there is only a legal remedy. Remember the New York's concealed carry abuse case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen (2022). In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that New York’s requirement to show "proper cause" or a special need for self-defense to obtain a concealed carry license violated the Second and Fourteenth Amendments.
I've been a proponent of USCCA | U.S. Concealed Carry Association courses. Even as an experienced shooter and occasional competition shooter, I learned a lot specifically related to the law and defense shooting.
I don't think its too much to ask people to make a commitment in time and money to make sure they are not a danger to themselves and others.
In a perfect world, that would be enough but there are a lot of places where politicians will twist the law to make this as difficult as possible. Some times the only cure is a UHaul.

Next time your at your range look up at the ceiling and tell me there is no need for training. I have two friends that are range officers and they tell me some crazy stories.

The problem is one side always says we are not coming for your guns...and then lies and does come after them. It makes it hard to agree to anything when you know their end goal is disarmed populace and they think you are a criminal, or want to make you into one, for owning something to protect your family. Remember criminals follow the law, I guarantee Johnny the hood rat will be taking the CC class.

I have gained a ton of knowledge and skill taking pistol and rifle course and practicing. The average person does not take these classes. Should they? Probably. There should probably be the equivalent of the Hunter Safety course(which I learned a lot from) for CC people. But we can't give them an inch, they take a fucking mile.

Growing up I never understood single issue voters and thought it made no sense. Now I understand more clearly than ever.

Come and take them.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

OK, I failed the IQ test so I'm not smart enough to walk away from this topic.
Personally I think any state has the right to require a test for concealed carry permit in the same way hunters in many states are required to successfully complete an approved hunter education course before they can purchase a hunting license.
Sadly that opens up what I'm calling blue state abuse, for which there is only a legal remedy. Remember the New York's concealed carry abuse case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen (2022). In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that New York’s requirement to show "proper cause" or a special need for self-defense to obtain a concealed carry license violated the Second and Fourteenth Amendments.
I've been a proponent of USCCA | U.S. Concealed Carry Association courses. Even as an experienced shooter and occasional competition shooter, I learned a lot specifically related to the law and defense shooting.
I don't think its too much to ask people to make a commitment in time and money to make sure they are not a danger to themselves and others.
In a perfect world, that would be enough but there are a lot of places where politicians will twist the law to make this as difficult as possible. Some times the only cure is a UHaul.

Next time your at your range look up at the ceiling and tell me there is no need for training. I have two friends that are range officers and they tell me some crazy stories.

I'm very careful which range I go to. It can be a very dangerous place without vigilant Safety Officers. But yep, those holes in the ceilings and walls occurred even under supervision