[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by Grover432

You buy any BMW for a long term hold and you will be out a pile of dough. So, like you said, wait for the right deal so you can afford the car and be out the minimum amount possible. For you, that means waiting until the end of the 2014 model year and looking for a leftover 535dx with the fewest options you can find.

With all of your writing about the colours and the various options, it made me think that you were seriously in the market for a new car now to replace your 335d. Personally, given your circumstances, I think the best thing for you is to just keep driving the car you have. If you want to leave something of value to your heirs under a cover, skip the F10 and put the money into a GIC and leave that under covers for them

As to standing in your driveway without cash to pay for the car at buyout time (or a new car). I don't get the difference. If you buy the car you'll be making finance payments. If you lease the car at a low interest rate you'll be making 1/2 the payment of a purchased car and you'll have that cash left at the end of the lease to buy the car (unless you spend it elsewhere in the meantime. The only difference is the interest cost between leasing and financing.

First of all, I am not financing.

Second, I was exaggerating to make a point about heirs. I should have used an emoticon there.

Third, I am a serious buyer at the right price. If the right incentives were introduced tomorrow. I would be at my dealer ordering.

I don't see the right price yet, but I have chosen my options, and am flexible on them. I know what options are important to me now, and I am ready to pounce; when the right combination of options and price present themselves.

I am not a buyer at this price now, but things change, and I am scanning the horizon for a deal.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

First of all, I am not financing.

Second, I was exaggerating to make a point about heirs. I should have used an emoticon there.

Third, I am a serious buyer at the right price. If the right incentives were introduced tomorrow. I would be at my dealer ordering.

I don't see the right price yet, but I have chosen my options, and am flexible on them. I know what options are important to me now, and I am ready to pounce; when the right combination of options and price present themselves.

I am not a buyer at this price now, but things change, and I am scanning the horizon for a deal.

The best you can hope for is $5000 off at the end of the year (in Canada anyway). So, if you drop $5000 in options, you can have a base 535dx now or you can wait until the end of the year to see what they clear the cars out at like I did.

Are you sure you aren't financing? If so, why did you make the statement that you don't want to lease and find out at the end of the lease you don't have the cash to buy a new car. If you have the cash (minus a few thousand you don't want to spend) now, you could lease the car and then pay out the rest from the pile of cash you say you.

Of course, I'm happy to debate options, colours, features etc. with you for a year - I like the forums, but its hard to provide helpful information when you change directions allot. (no offence intended)

[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by Grover432

The best you can hope for is $5000 off at the end of the year (in Canada anyway). So, if you drop $5000 in options, you can have a base 535dx now or you can wait until the end of the year to see what they clear the cars out at like I did.

Are you sure you aren't financing? If so, why did you make the statement that you don't want to lease and find out at the end of the lease you don't have the cash to buy a new car. If you have the cash (minus a few thousand you don't want to spend) now, you could lease the car and then pay out the rest from the pile of cash you say you.

Of course, I'm happy to debate options, colours, features etc. with you for a year - I like the forums, but its hard to provide helpful information when you change directions allot. (no offence intended)

I am not financing.

You have to return a car at the end of a lease, as opposed to buying a car. If you purchase a car you own it. It is in your driveway.

If you lease, You do not own your car, and so at the end of the lease you are left with nothing, and your driveway is empty.

I haven't changed direction. I have always wanted to buy a car, unfinanced with no lease.

My posts have been asking what 5-series owners like for options: pros & cons.

Also, complaints about color choices, and interlocking packages and options.

There will be an eco credit discount, and an end of year discount. Also, an ED discount, and who knows what else.

When the right combination of incentives come along. I will purchase the car, but for right now the car is too expensive for me. Things will change. The car has just been released, and they don't offer discounts on newly released cars.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I am not financing.

You have to return a car at the end of a lease, as opposed to buying a car. If you purchase a car you own it. It is in your driveway.

If you lease, You do not own your car, and so at the end of the lease you are left with nothing, and your driveway is empty.

If you lease at zero percent (or near zero), you can buy the car out at the end of the lease at its residual value, so you do own a car that is in your driveway. You are not left with nothing at the end of the lease anymore than you are if you buy a 535dx for $66,000 and then sell it after 48 months for $30,000 and have the same nothing in your driveway.

In the mean time, you've tied up $66,000 plus taxes on a car that is depreciating while you could have used the money as a business or equity investment.

I guess what I'm saying is, if the interest costs are the same there is no difference between buying or leasing, except leasing gives you a guaranteed "out" after a set time at a set point in time at a set cost. If you buy and then want out, you have to go to market with a used BMW at the end of its warranty and deal with the crackpots who show up wanting to buy the car for 20% less than you want to sell it for.

I get that you want to "own" your car - many people do. I owned 4 out of the 6 BMWs I have driven. The last one I owned was a 1989 535iA. I kept it 5 years and when stuff started going wrong (seat covers wore out, upper and lower control arm bushings, engine control module, etc. etc.) it didn't make sense to keep fixing it, so I got a government safety inspection done and traded it (at wholesale) to a dealer who would take it (very difficult to find).

After that experience I leased at 1.9% (1999 E39). I drove it for 3 + 2 because I liked it so much. It was mint when I turned it back in, but it cost me less over 5 years than my 535iA did even though the 535iA had a lower msrp to start with. As I think I posted previously, the F30 will sell well in the used market. the F10, not so much. The cars experience huge depreciation and once they are off warranty, no one wants to own them and the resale value proves the point. Being in a smaller market you say you are in will make the problem worse.

For my current car, I leased it with a cap cost (the amount I would have purchased it for) of $500.00 under invoice, less factory incentive of $5,000, at .9%. The total cost of the car with interest if I buy it out is $1,250 more than if I had paid the cash for it up front (but don't forget the money cost, even if you have cash - it could be working for you). If I decide it is not a long term hold, I'll turn it in knowing that it could have been allot worse if I'd bought it and then tried to sell it after 3 years - a lesson I learned with my 535iA.

you'll figure it out I'm sure. In the mean time, please post pictures when you get your new car and good luck.

[Diesel_Lover]

The Truecar.com price for the build I am considering is about $62,500 before incentives. I am counting on incentives to drag the price closer to $52,000.

I might be waiting for awhile, but that gives me time to sell my car. If I get some extra cash, in the mean time, I might spend a few more grand building the car.

I'll post post pics when I get the car. I am crossing my fingers it is soon.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

The Truecar.com price for the build I am considering is about $62,500 before incentives. I am counting on incentives to drag the price closer to $52,000.

I might be waiting for awhile, but that gives me time to sell my car. If I get some extra cash, in the mean time, I might spend a few more grand building the car.

I'll post post pics when I get the car. I am crossing my fingers it is soon.

Good luck.

[67R60]

Originally Posted by Grover432

If you lease at zero percent (or near zero), you can buy the car out at the end of the lease at its residual value, so you do own a car that is in your driveway. You are not left with nothing at the end of the lease anymore than you are if you buy a 535dx for $66,000 and then sell it after 48 months for $30,000 and have the same nothing in your driveway.

In the mean time, you've tied up $66,000 plus taxes on a car that is depreciating while you could have used the money as a business or equity investment.

I guess what I'm saying is, if the interest costs are the same there is no difference between buying or leasing, except leasing gives you a guaranteed "out" after a set time at a set point in time at a set cost. If you buy and then want out, you have to go to market with a used BMW at the end of its warranty and deal with the crackpots who show up wanting to buy the car for 20% less than you want to sell it for.

I get that you want to "own" your car - many people do. I owned 4 out of the 6 BMWs I have driven. The last one I owned was a 1989 535iA. I kept it 5 years and when stuff started going wrong (seat covers wore out, upper and lower control arm bushings, engine control module, etc. etc.) it didn't make sense to keep fixing it, so I got a government safety inspection done and traded it (at wholesale) to a dealer who would take it (very difficult to find).

After that experience I leased at 1.9% (1999 E39). I drove it for 3 + 2 because I liked it so much. It was mint when I turned it back in, but it cost me less over 5 years than my 535iA did even though the 535iA had a lower msrp to start with. As I think I posted previously, the F30 will sell well in the used market. the F10, not so much. The cars experience huge depreciation and once they are off warranty, no one wants to own them and the resale value proves the point. Being in a smaller market you say you are in will make the problem worse.

For my current car, I leased it with a cap cost (the amount I would have purchased it for) of $500.00 under invoice, less factory incentive of $5,000, at .9%. The total cost of the car with interest if I buy it out is $1,250 more than if I had paid the cash for it up front (but don't forget the money cost, even if you have cash - it could be working for you). If I decide it is not a long term hold, I'll turn it in knowing that it could have been allot worse if I'd bought it and then tried to sell it after 3 years - a lesson I learned with my 535iA.

you'll figure it out I'm sure. In the mean time, please post pictures when you get your new car and good luck.

Hi Grover,

Well said. I have looked at purchasing vs. leasing a BMW and leasing makes a lot of sense for me.

If I purchased a 60K car, I would pay $6K in state tax right off the bat and in reality I keep my cars 3 to 4 years. I loved my first 335 so much that I was looking at purchasing it at the end of my lease. The residual was 31K but a dealer said they would sell it to me for 27K. I feel there are many more options when you lease a BMW vs. buy.

Cheers,

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by 67R60

Hi Grover,

Well said. I have looked at purchasing vs. leasing a BMW and leasing makes a lot of sense for me.

If I purchased a 60K car, I would pay $6K in state tax right off the bat and in reality I keep my cars 3 to 4 years. I loved my first 335 so much that I was looking at purchasing it at the end of my lease. The residual was 31K but a dealer said they would sell it to me for 27K. I feel there are many more options when you lease a BMW vs. buy.

Cheers,

Thanks 67R,

That is what I was getting at. When you buy a car, you have a cost whether you purchase or lease - called depreciation. In a purchase it is hidden until you sell the car. In a lease, you pay for the depreciation monthly, along with an interest factor. For people keeping their cars 3 or 4 years as long as the interest rate is reasonable, I can't think of a reason to purchase instead.

You always know up front what the lease + interest + buyout is going to cost you (i.e. the total "purchase price" of the car). As long as that doesn't exceed what you pay in cash for the car (plus some interest), why would anyone purchase?

Say my car was $65,000 cash to purchase. My lease payments plus residual come to $65,000 plus about $1,200 in interest. Plus, I get to walk away if I want at the end of the lease and don't have to look for a buyer or trade the car at a dealer at wholesale.

As you point out, I don't have to pay tax on the full value of the car, just on the lease payments, or the amount of the car "I used up".

[mcadori]

I've had both: Lux in 2012 535i and MC in my old 2012 X5. I actually liked the Luxury seats enough to get them again in my new 535d, but I live in a pretty hot climate and I tend to sweat when I don't have ventilated seats; something that bothered me in my X5. My wife likes the MC and the Lux, but she never uses the ventilation feature.