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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum TPMS not working on Winter wheels
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      10-22-2019, 03:57 PM   #1
bendandthrow
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TPMS not working on Winter wheels

The TPMS was working fine on my 19" wheels. I recently bought a 2 year old second hand set of BMW 18" wheels with Winter tyres, primarily because I wanted smaller wheels for comfort, but was happy to also get Winter tyres given its not October.

I had BMW replace my old wheels/tyres with the new wheels / tyres. Now I find the TPMS is no longer working. Each time I start the Reset process it runs for a while then reports a failure.

I called BMW and they said all 4 tyres needed to be at the same pressure for the system to work. I doubted this but I did as they suggested and set all 4 to 32psi. Still getting the fail message.

Was one or more TPM sensor damaged during the change of wheels? Or is some kind of recalibration needed when changing wheel size?

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Eric
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      10-22-2019, 04:04 PM   #2
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Could be the batteries are done and need replacing...the TPMS that is. There's quite a few threads on this
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      10-22-2019, 06:47 PM   #3
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Are you sure that they moved the sensors over to the new wheels?
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      10-22-2019, 07:17 PM   #4
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I didn’t see you say which sensors are on the car now.
If they are the newer ones, are they compatible?
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      10-23-2019, 09:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendandthrow View Post
... I recently bought a 2 year old second hand set of BMW 18" wheels with Winter tyres, ...

I had BMW replace my old wheels/tyres with the new wheels / tyres. Now I find the TPMS is no longer working. Each time I start the Reset process it runs for a while then reports a failure.

Was one or more TPM sensor damaged during the change of wheels? Or is some kind of recalibration needed when changing wheel size?

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Eric
What's missing if more detail/info about the used 18" wheels/tires you purchased. Are these oe BMW wheels or aftermarket...and what did they come off of?

As asked above...did they come from another BMW that used compatible TPM sensors? If the tires weren't removed from the wheels...then I doubt that the sensors got damaged in anyway. Just swapping the tires on/off your vehicle shouldn't damage them in anyway.

If the sensors can be checked to see if they are still sending a signal...that would indicate that their batteries still work...but are they sending the data over the correct frequency?
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      10-23-2019, 12:35 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the feedback.

The "new" 18" wheels are OE BMW (V Spoke 281). I believe they are 2-3 years old (ie pre Winter 2017) because the vendor said he had used them for 2 Winters. The winter tyres were already fitted. I did ask the vendor if they were compatible with TPMS and he said yes and that it was working when he removed them from his car, but I can't verify he was telling the truth.

My old 19" wheels were BMW V Spoke 331. Note that they, and my car, are from 2014, so maybe 2-3 years older than the "new" wheels.

I did not know the sensors needed batteries. Can this be checked / changed without removing the tyre? I understand removing the runflat tyre will probably ruin it. What is the expected lifetime of the battery?

Is it likely my car (2014) is not compatible with the TPMS in the "new" wheels (c2017)? Given the wheels were swapped over by a BMW garage should they have been able to tell if the car and TPMS were incompatible? The mechanic who did the work initiated the Reset process before returning the car, but of course it takes several miles to complete the process so it was not until I had driven a while that the problem became evident.
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      10-23-2019, 02:11 PM   #7
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Batteries usually last around 10 years, so they should be good.
It is most likely a frequency problem.
You'll need to check what yours needs and what the other car used.
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      10-23-2019, 06:54 PM   #8
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Yes - sounds like the new sensors are just not communicating with their new host car.
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      10-24-2019, 12:01 AM   #9
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There is no doubt that the frequency is incompatible. I had a BMW set of winters on my 2012 F10 but they were not going to be useful for my 640i GT so I got rid of them.
I had my winters rotated off my original rims and there was no problem with taking off and putting on run-flats on rims over and over. I eventually purchased a second set of rims for convenience.
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      10-24-2019, 02:59 AM   #10
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From the replies so far it seems there is probably a frequency incompatibility. Does the resolution involve a change within the car or within each of the wheel/tyres?

After this Winter I expect the Winter tyres will be worn out. Rather than revert to my old 19" wheels and tyres I will probably buy new tyres for the 18" wheels as I want the extra comfort the deeper tyres will hopefully give. So is that the best time to fix this this issue?

Do any UK readers know if TPMS is a MOT failure item?

PS - If I can get this sorted I will almost certainly never use my old 19" wheels again. I may keep them to help with resale of the car, but will probably end up selling them separately.
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      10-24-2019, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendandthrow View Post
From the replies so far it seems there is probably a frequency incompatibility. Does the resolution involve a change within the car or within each of the wheel/tyres?

After this Winter I expect the Winter tyres will be worn out. Rather than revert to my old 19" wheels and tyres I will probably buy new tyres for the 18" wheels as I want the extra comfort the deeper tyres will hopefully give. So is that the best time to fix this this issue?

Do any UK readers know if TPMS is a MOT failure item?

PS - If I can get this sorted I will almost certainly never use my old 19" wheels again. I may keep them to help with resale of the car, but will probably end up selling them separately.
If you know you're not going to use the old rims again, the easiest change might be to move the sensors from the old wheels to the new ones. The sensors are connected to the valve stems and sit inside the rim, so the tyres need to be removed in order to switch them out.
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      10-24-2019, 09:59 AM   #12
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Does the resolution involve a change within the car or within each of the wheel/tyres?

It requires that you buy new sensors that match the operational frequency of the cars system. The frequency of operation is fixed.
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      10-24-2019, 12:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm785 View Post
If you know you're not going to use the old rims again, the easiest change might be to move the sensors from the old wheels to the new ones. The sensors are connected to the valve stems and sit inside the rim, so the tyres need to be removed in order to switch them out.
That is a very interesting suggestion as the tyres on the old rims are not that good (ie would soon have been replaced due to wear).

I'm thinking I may wait until after this Winter and then do as you suggest, at the same time putting on all weather tyres. Can you get all weather run flats?
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      10-24-2019, 02:48 PM   #14
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That is mostly what they make.
Also until you get the right sensors that problem will persist.
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      10-24-2019, 05:04 PM   #15
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Just FYI info about the TPS sensors:
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      10-25-2019, 10:39 AM   #16
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Qsilver - thanks for that, very informative.

I have checked the BMW web site and both wheels are shown as compatible with my car (I input the VIN).

This text is on the pages for both wheels

"Installed with RDC module 6 874 830 (generation 3.8 / multiframe)! No mixed installation permitted within a gear set with RDC module 6 856 227 (generation 3.4.1 / singleframe) and/or RDC module 6 874 829 (generation 3.8.1 / singleframe)!"

So it does seem one or more of the sensors is faulty or missing, but I can't tell that without taking the tyres off.

Just called my BMW garage. They say they will charge £150 (1 hour's labour) to diagnose. If any need replacing they will charge £81 per sensor. If they can do the replacement within the diagnosis hour then that is the full cost otherwise an additional £78 per sensor to fit.

Unfortunately it seems the sensors for my car are non standard and so are not kept in stock, so would definitely not be fixed during the diagnosis hour. Hence I am faced with paying £150 plus £159 for each faulty sensor, ie a minimum of £309. I could probably save maybe £100 by going to a non BMW dealer, but its still over £200. Is it worth it?

I have been told it is not an MOT failure so I am tempted to just live with it, at least until I change tyres in the Spring.
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      10-30-2019, 05:08 PM   #17
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Are you sure those rims have the sensors?

The wheels might have been off a pre lci car, many of which didn't have tpms fitted, just worked on rotational differences.
I know he said his car was 2017, but he might have bought them from an earlier car.

If not, just buy a set of sensors from amazon for £60 and have them fitted.
Fuck paying £150 for diagnostics, that is ridiculous.

Many tyre centres can run a scanner over each sensor and tell if it is working and what frequency.
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      10-31-2019, 03:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Many tyre centres can run a scanner over each sensor and tell if it is working and what frequency.
Ditto this ^^^^. A major tire/tyre center in your area will usually have tools that can read your TPM sensors...and can order aftermarket sensors that can work with your BMW. And it usually costs less for not only the sensors...but probably won't charge a huge diagnostic fee. They probably will check your sensors for free to find any that may not be sending a signal. If they are all sending a signal...it means their battery isn't dead and the issue may be with the RDC control unit.

I would call around and inquire with any local tire shops (especially any major national chain) to see what their procedure is about checking/replacing TPM sensors.

Good luck.
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      11-01-2019, 09:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
Are you sure those rims have the sensors?
TBH, no. He did say they did and that they were ok, but this is ebay afterall.

I will do as you and Qsilver suggest and try a local tyre fitter like kwikfit. I've never had TPMS before and not been bothered by that, so I don't want to pay over the odds to get it fixed, but it would be nice if I can get it fixed without being ripped off.

Thanks again
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      11-11-2019, 12:45 PM   #20
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Just found out my tyre place can change the frequency of the sensors.

I got them to put balance my winter wheels today, they always get it perfect, and the F11 hates even 10g out, get judder under braking. I then said I bet after doing that the sensors will probably be different frequency and will have to do them again.
He replied that they have the kit to recode them for 433hz or whatever is needed, said they had done a couple now.
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      11-11-2019, 01:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
Just found out my tyre place can change the frequency of the sensors.

I got them to put balance my winter wheels today, they always get it perfect, and the F11 hates even 10g out, get judder under braking. I then said I bet after doing that the sensors will probably be different frequency and will have to do them again.
He replied that they have the kit to recode them for 433hz or whatever is needed, said they had done a couple now.
That is really good to know, thanks. I've not had a chance to pursue this yet, but i will. Shame I don't live nearer Norfolk. I will probably have to make do with KwikFit
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