[ErnestHouse]

The more I read about the cancelling of 3G, the worse it gets. I thought remote services like unlocking, flashing lights and ventilation were done via satellite. So at first I thought we just lost widgets, online search and RTTI. But when I read the attached service bulletin, the lack of a solution really cripples the car.

If they turned off 3G, why can I still send addresses to the car?

[Unspec]

Read the notice.

February 2022.

[AP]

At least there looks like a 4g replacement.
Hopefully not too expensive

Unfortunately these days the electronics and software are what's going to age the car before it's time

[ErnestHouse]

Thanks all. I get it now. Only RTTI, online search and widgets is cancelled right now but everything else is going away Feb 2022; severely crippling our cars and making them unsafe.

The only 4G replacement I've found is replacing the head unit in the dash, the comm unit in the trunk and the wiring harness in between for about $3K in parts plus a qualified repair center willing to do it.

However, in order to buy an HU there has to have been a later model year of your car (or similar) that in fact shipped with the 4G enabled head unit. That is, the part has to come up in the BMW system as being available for your VIN. If it does not, there is no 4G solution that I've found. Even if it does, BMW has to provision the part to your VIN. Ditto the comm unit. Buying a scrapped HU presents the problem of integrating a donor VIN into your VIN.

To your point, if BMW wanted to, they could have made it all this easy but apparently they don't so they didn't.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

Thanks all. I get it now. Only RTTI, online search and widgets is cancelled right now but everything else is going away Feb 2022; severely crippling our cars and making them unsafe.

LMFAO what.

Unsafe? If losing SOS function makes a car unsafe, then damn every car prior to 2010 must be crazy unsafe. Relax and quit fear mongering on every 3G thread on this forum.

[ErnestHouse]

Originally Posted by Unspec

LMFAO what.

Unsafe? If losing SOS function makes a car unsafe, then damn every car prior to 2010 must be crazy unsafe. Relax and quit fear mongering on every 3G thread on this forum.

I said not having RTTI made the car unsafe. I'm not the only one and BMW itself pushed it as a safety feature.

Where did I say not having SOS made the car unsafe? Nevermind. You won't find it. I didn't say it. You said it. Now, who's making personal attacks on posters and who's and who's trying to find a solution?

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

I said not having RTTI made the car unsafe. I'm not the only one and BMW itself pushed it as a safety feature.

Where did I say not having SOS made the car unsafe? Nevermind. You won't find it. I didn't say it. You said it. Now, who's making personal attacks on posters and who's and who's trying to find a solution?

RTTI is not a safety feature, you and I both know that. Unless you seriously believe every marketing claim out there. I figured the only thing you could seriously think was a safety feature was the SOS calling and automatic crash detection. Apologies for assuming that you're a rational individual.

[ErnestHouse]

Originally Posted by Unspec

RTTI is not a safety feature, you and I both know that. Unless you seriously believe every marketing claim out there. I figured the only thing you could seriously think was a safety feature was the SOS calling and automatic crash detection. Apologies for assuming that you're a rational individual.

I realize that's your opinion. Clearly you have other issues beside reading comprehension.

It doesn't take much thinking to realize RTTI puts traffic and route recalculation on the nice large screen along with accompanying turn information on the HUD and in the ears regardless of any other audio being used. It takes a real driver a mere glance to evaluate the information and make lane changes, exit quickly, route change or whatever.

In turning off RTTI, BMW has left drivers to use phone navigation that frankenstein what was previously an integrated system with well thought out and tested ergonomics so real drivers focus is on, well, driving. If you knew anything about telematics and ergonomics, now you've demonstrated you don't, but if you did, you'd understand that's more distracting in several ways and a cause of accidents; deadly and otherwise. Ergo, less safe.

So the rational among us are seeking solutions to that. I've developed some with the help of this community except you of course. You've not been the least bit helpful here.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

I realize that's your opinion. Clearly you have other issues beside reading comprehension.

It doesn't take much thinking to realize RTTI puts traffic and route recalculation on the nice large screen along with accompanying turn information on the HUD and in the ears regardless of any other audio being used. It takes a real driver a mere glance to evaluate the information and make lane changes, exit quickly, route change or whatever.

In turning off RTTI, BMW has left drivers to use phone navigation that frankenstein what was previously an integrated system with well thought out and tested ergonomics so real drivers focus is on, well, driving. If you knew anything about telematics and ergonomics, now you've demonstrated you don't, but if you did, you'd understand that's more distracting in several ways and a cause of accidents; deadly and otherwise. Ergo, less safe.

So the rational among us are seeking solutions to that. I've developed some with the help of this community except you of course. You've not been the least bit helpful here.

You act as if RTTI is the entire nav system, it's not. Turn by turn information isn't going away. Lane information isn't going away. HUD information isn't going away. Just real time traffic. So, no, it's not a safety feature, it's a quality of life feature.

Again. Quit fear mongering.

[ErnestHouse]

I've been clear and precise. Lack of RTTI in the OEM Nav makes the car less safe. A Nav without cellular connection for RTTI means phone frankenstein. That's a distracted driver. That's a safety issue no matter what you think. Carplay MMI is a solution but still depends on a phone for connectivity and a charging system. Phone based frankensteins don't work as reliably as a built in one. Fiddling with it to get the frankenstein working is a driver distraction.

[ezaircon4jc]

As much as I rely on RTTI, I can't imagine how I navigated safely for over 40 years without it.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

I've been clear and precise. Lack of RTTI in the OEM Nav makes the car less safe. A Nav without cellular connection for RTTI means phone frankenstein. That's a distracted driver. That's a safety issue no matter what you think. Carplay MMI is a solution but still depends on a phone for connectivity and a charging system. Phone based frankensteins don't work as reliably as a built in one. Fiddling with it to get the frankenstein working is a driver distraction.

You act as if navigating without traffic info is straight up not possible. Bless your heart.

[ErnestHouse]

I'll just leave this right here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stay-...kyle-macdonald

NOTABLE QUOTES:
Without a proactive response, OEMs are putting their brand’s reputation on the line, not to mention walking away from their slice of the $750B car data monetization pie.

This transition from 3G network technology is a defining moment for automakers, offering a clear opportunity to showcase agility and commitment to customers.

By partnering with fast-moving automotive tech companies, OEMs can bring state-of-the-art connected car services to their affected pool of vehicles, without the burden of a multi-year design and production cycle. But by sitting idle, they risk losing the market to the growing group of tech-forward manufacturers.

It’s increasingly clear that consumers aren’t ready to let go of their connected cars. Without a satisfactory replacement, the sudden loss of connected services won’t just frustrate people, it will have a long-standing impact on brand perceptions and loyalty.

What’s needed is a turnkey, end-to-end solution that delivers on consumer expectations while providing OEMs with a scalable, pay-per-vehicle business model.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

I'll just leave this right here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stay-...kyle-macdonald

NOTABLE QUOTES:
Without a proactive response, OEMs are putting their brand’s reputation on the line, not to mention walking away from their slice of the $750B car data monetization pie.

This transition from 3G network technology is a defining moment for automakers, offering a clear opportunity to showcase agility and commitment to customers.

By partnering with fast-moving automotive tech companies, OEMs can bring state-of-the-art connected car services to their affected pool of vehicles, without the burden of a multi-year design and production cycle. But by sitting idle, they risk losing the market to the growing group of tech-forward manufacturers.

It’s increasingly clear that consumers aren’t ready to let go of their connected cars. Without a satisfactory replacement, the sudden loss of connected services won’t just frustrate people, it will have a long-standing impact on brand perceptions and loyalty.

What’s needed is a turnkey, end-to-end solution that delivers on consumer expectations while providing OEMs with a scalable, pay-per-vehicle business model.

lmao cool, still not a safety feature.

[FdisFingF10]

Ernest, wow. You don't take disagreements well lol. And while I am not trying to add to the argument, the "cripple" and "unsafe" are immense, immense reaches of rational.

This will continue to happen every few years and the next network will phase out 4G etc. With all that being said, this is hardly a feature that even scratched my interest and I could yawn at it's removal.

It does not make the vehicle less safe. At all. In any way. See how I just made statements that I rationalized to myself but I am sure you'll disagree with? Because just because you can rationalize it does not make you right or the majority. Goes for both arguments but I would be willing to bet the argument is disproportionately in the pool or not giving a damn. How did we ever make it this far without these features?

He didn't personally attack you as he doesn't know you personally as far as I can tell lol. I would comfortably bet the vast majority of people wouldn't even notice. The RTT is slow and outdated. The phone will always be more accurate when talking most F10.

In summary, the feature is cool but unsafe and crippling is a kin to hyperbole.

[ErnestHouse]

Think what you want. Loss of 3G connectivity cripples all the connected features of the car. That's the context of "crippling". It's not the loss of RTTI, it's the loss of 3G.

A driver with integrated RTTI is safer a driver juggling a phone to get the same information while driving. That's the context of safety wrt RTTI. Comparing it to a car without RTTI is an absurd comparison.

20 years ago, someone dying after few days trapped in a car that went off the road in a snow storm and hidden for two weeks was sad. Today, it's quite different. When that's a BMW with busted SOS because BMW wouldn't provide a fix when there was one to be had, it's a lawsuit. We're talking about a ton of F10, X5, F07 and probably others under 10 years old. A car without a working SOS is less safe than one that has a working one. You could compare it to airbags. 30 years ago, a death from head on crash was sad. Today, we expect better due to airbags. A car without airbags is less safe than one with airbags.

I have no doubt the portion of BMW owners busy modifying their exhaust, suspension and fuel systems have no regard for the connected features and the value they have to the portion of owners who bought BMWs as luxury cars to drive them without phantasies racing down the street or bragging rights at the local club.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

Think what you want. Loss of 3G connectivity cripples all the connected features of the car. That's the context of "crippling". It's not the loss of RTTI, it's the loss of 3G.

A driver with integrated RTTI is safer a driver juggling a phone to get the same information while driving. That's the context of safety wrt RTTI. Comparing it to a car without RTTI is an absurd comparison.

20 years ago, someone dying after few days trapped in a car that went off the road in a snow storm and hidden for two weeks was sad. Today, it's quite different. When that's a BMW with busted SOS because BMW wouldn't provide a fix when there was one to be had, it's a lawsuit. We're talking about a ton of F10, X5, F07 and probably others under 10 years old. A car without a working SOS is less safe than one that has a working one. You could compare it to airbags. 30 years ago, a death from head on crash was sad. Today, we expect better due to airbags. A car without airbags is less safe than one with airbags.

I have no doubt the portion of BMW owners busy modifying their exhaust, suspension and fuel systems have no regard for the connected features and the value they have to the portion of owners who bought BMWs as luxury cars to drive them without phantasies racing down the street or bragging rights at the local club.

Again, you act as if a driver MUST have traffic info, and if they don't have RTTI they MUST fumble with their phone. This is plainly fear mongering, since you have the option of...wait for it...wait for it...just sitting in traffic for a bit. You seriously act as if hitting some congestion is some deadly condition.

You absolutely are right that losing SOS is a safety concern, but it's not like phone's don't exist. If your car can send out an SOS, so you can your phone. If your accident is bad enough that your phone can't send out a 911 call, well, you're either in a lake, crushed underneath a semi, etc, so it's a bit moot at that point. Heck, Google is even implementing automatic crash detection into their phones now. Ideally, BMW should implement SOS to use a satellite connection, but that's crazy money to implement in every single car.

Also, we'll just pretend you didn't make a supremely ignorant dig at car enthusiasts lol.

[ErnestHouse]

Actually I don't act as if a driver must have traffic info. That is absurd but you keep saying it. A driver with a phone on a stick somewhere on the dash and using a hand to zoom, pan etc its little screen to see traffic in and around the driver's route is less safe than a driver using an integrated RTTI in navi on screen and HUD. Frankly, ignorant digs have been your domain.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

Actually I don't act as if a driver must have traffic info. That is absurd but you keep saying it. A driver with a phone on a stick somewhere on the dash and using a hand to zoom, pan etc its little screen to see traffic in and around the driver's route is less safe than a driver using an integrated RTTI in navi on screen and HUD. Frankly, ignorant digs have been your domain.

Yea, it is a bit absurd that you keep implying it, isn't it? Saying RTTI is a safety feature and not a quality of life feature implies that traffic info is mandatory lmfao

Maybe understand your own argument better before angrily smashing away at your keyboard.

[Gunner313]

Anyone know when BMW switched over from 3G, like what years are affected by this?

The more tech that goes into our cars, the more often we´ll see this in the future. Not saying it's only a bad thing, but cars are gonna have options that will expire.

[Napas]

I have RTTI on my F11, it's a commodity and you pay for this every year.
I'm wondering, how would you see an E46 with 23 Years... well the former radio had a button Traffic information (TP) was pretty nice, and instead of looking at a screen, a nice lady would provide an announcement of the traffic... Not bad

I see RTTI as commodity, i can live without it, and i would assume the remaining humans that drive on this planet.

What is the percentage of humans that see congestion of traffic as a life treating possibility? maybe it seems to be a bit of paranoia... they might see it as a commodity to reach their destination faster.

I sincerely, might think you live in a complicated place that too much traffic equals to death trap.

Too much Traffic does not mean danger, if you drive like a maniac i can understand, if you want to lower the percentage that some maniac might hit you, fine park your car, defensive driving might also help.
But don't take me wrong, "Lack of RTTI in the OEM Nav makes the car less safe." this statement is a bit weird.

The SOS button might be a argument that by having the systems up and running might speed up emergency and save lives, but RTTI seems a bit nonsense...

Everyone has the right of their opinion, and you must accept that other people might have a different view and don't see your logic the same way.

In Europe we will continue to have 2G + 3G - massive IoT, no announcements were done until now.

BMW also loses a lot with this, TeleServices - if anything is wrong with the car, it would get uploaded to BMW Servers and we would get a BMW workshop calling us telling us there was a issue with the car. This business will be in a portion lost as the yearly subscriptions.